Not happy with emergent curriculum..what is a buzzword that will get us more structure and learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to these ridiculous posters, the handwringing over anxious preschoolers completing reams of worksheets is just a reflection of parents worried other kids are outpacing their own. My child went to an academic preschool where they played but also spent an hour writing, reading (letter sounds) and adding small numbers. My child also *gasp* spent 30 minutes at home practicing phonics and a K math book daily. When did he play? The rest of the whole day! He missed absolutely nothing, and went into K reading chapter books. I really don’t get the Only Play thing with kids.

Ok, but what did he gain by going into K reading chapter books? That’s the point. Kids have the entire rest of their schooling to sit at desks and read. They have a very short time when they can play all day. Most of the kindergarten classrooms in Arlington don’t even have toys because there is no time in the day for playing; it’s all academics. Let the preschoolers play!

This is the problem: somehow there exists this idea that children who advance early aren’t playing and I’m honestly puzzled how this myth has survived so long. A four year old can learn how to read in 10 minutes a day. A year of that, and the child can read at a 2nd grade level. Preschool is the best time to learn. The child has no pressure and endless time. You know when the worst time to read begins? When they are sitting in a classroom with 26 other noisy children for 8 hours a day with a report card detailing their progress. If you don’t see the benefits for a young child to be able to pick up any book in their library and understand it independently, then we don’t share the same views on parenting. And that’s okay, that’s exactly why preschools offer different curricula.

NP. My child is at play based preschool- he likes it and we have no intention of moving. That being said, he loves us reading books to him at night and has expressed interest in being able to read the words himself. When you say a child can be taught to read in 10 minutes a day, do you have specific recommendations of how we could do this at home?

Yes. First, the only requirement to be able to read is the recognition of letters and the sound they make. Starting 4 (or 3.9 if your child already knows the letter sounds), start with simple CVC words (at-bat-cat-mat-hat). Repeat each sound individually and then run your finger under the word slowly while sounding out the word. Repeat for 10 minutes. Once the child knows them (a few weeks later sometimes) on to the next (pan-can-tan, etc.). Then you move to BOB books, then leveled readers, and finally chapter books. Ten minutes per day gives your child 60 hours of reading, which is exactly how long it takes a 4 year old to learn how to read at a second grade level (I say this to illustrate how painfully slow and inefficient learning to read in a classroom with 27 students and a teacher truly is). A parent teaching their child one-on-one before school is much less pressure. But unfortunately, all of the play-only PPs here will insist I am pressuring my child and making him anxious. Be warned, it will take away 10 minutes of your child’s daily play time!

You have ONE child, right PP? My oldest was an early reader. Identified all letters before she turned 2, knew they letter sounds perfectly. Could read CVC words at 3, chapter books at 4.5. She loved it and begged us to teach her. My second came along and he loved being read to, but didn’t learn CVC words until Kindergarten. Not due to lack of time or attention to him, but because his brain just wasn’t ready for it like his older sister. He is much better at math than she is, both of them have been identified as gifted. Just saying, you were able to teach your 3/4 year old to read because his brain was ready, maybe if you had another kid you would see they might not have the same schedule. Some kids do learn and pick it up early, but if a preschool is focusing so hard on getting kids to read, some of those kids will end up embarrassed and frustrated by not being able to complete the curriculum like other friends. It’s not about the play, pp, it’s about maximizing their time in preschool and building solid foundations so they are ready to learn when their time comes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to these ridiculous posters, the handwringing over anxious preschoolers completing reams of worksheets is just a reflection of parents worried other kids are outpacing their own. My child went to an academic preschool where they played but also spent an hour writing, reading (letter sounds) and adding small numbers. My child also *gasp* spent 30 minutes at home practicing phonics and a K math book daily. When did he play? The rest of the whole day! He missed absolutely nothing, and went into K reading chapter books. I really don’t get the Only Play thing with kids.

Ok, but what did he gain by going into K reading chapter books? That’s the point. Kids have the entire rest of their schooling to sit at desks and read. They have a very short time when they can play all day. Most of the kindergarten classrooms in Arlington don’t even have toys because there is no time in the day for playing; it’s all academics. Let the preschoolers play!

This is the problem: somehow there exists this idea that children who advance early aren’t playing and I’m honestly puzzled how this myth has survived so long. A four year old can learn how to read in 10 minutes a day. A year of that, and the child can read at a 2nd grade level. Preschool is the best time to learn. The child has no pressure and endless time. You know when the worst time to read begins? When they are sitting in a classroom with 26 other noisy children for 8 hours a day with a report card detailing their progress. If you don’t see the benefits for a young child to be able to pick up any book in their library and understand it independently, then we don’t share the same views on parenting. And that’s okay, that’s exactly why preschools offer different curricula.

NP. My child is at play based preschool- he likes it and we have no intention of moving. That being said, he loves us reading books to him at night and has expressed interest in being able to read the words himself. When you say a child can be taught to read in 10 minutes a day, do you have specific recommendations of how we could do this at home?

Yes. First, the only requirement to be able to read is the recognition of letters and the sound they make. Starting 4 (or 3.9 if your child already knows the letter sounds), start with simple CVC words (at-bat-cat-mat-hat). Repeat each sound individually and then run your finger under the word slowly while sounding out the word. Repeat for 10 minutes. Once the child knows them (a few weeks later sometimes) on to the next (pan-can-tan, etc.). Then you move to BOB books, then leveled readers, and finally chapter books. Ten minutes per day gives your child 60 hours of reading, which is exactly how long it takes a 4 year old to learn how to read at a second grade level (I say this to illustrate how painfully slow and inefficient learning to read in a classroom with 27 students and a teacher truly is). A parent teaching their child one-on-one before school is much less pressure. But unfortunately, all of the play-only PPs here will insist I am pressuring my child and making him anxious. Be warned, it will take away 10 minutes of your child’s daily play time!

You have ONE child, right PP? My oldest was an early reader. Identified all letters before she turned 2, knew they letter sounds perfectly. Could read CVC words at 3, chapter books at 4.5. She loved it and begged us to teach her. My second came along and he loved being read to, but didn’t learn CVC words until Kindergarten. Not due to lack of time or attention to him, but because his brain just wasn’t ready for it like his older sister. He is much better at math than she is, both of them have been identified as gifted. Just saying, you were able to teach your 3/4 year old to read because his brain was ready, maybe if you had another kid you would see they might not have the same schedule. Some kids do learn and pick it up early, but if a preschool is focusing so hard on getting kids to read, some of those kids will end up embarrassed and frustrated by not being able to complete the curriculum like other friends. It’s not about the play, pp, it’s about maximizing their time in preschool and building solid foundations so they are ready to learn when their time comes.

No, I have three. The second one is learning the same way her brother did, and the same way my mother taught me and my siblings. This is a fruitless thread, because people who invent these narratives about anxious preschoolers don’t have a historical horizon past July, which is why they use the Atlantic as an authoritative source and insist on teaching children only what the kid “leads“ them to. We just don’t have the same perspective, but again, it really doesn’t matter. My kid‘s school offers differentiated instruction, and he has a peer group whose parents also taught their kids to read, so he gets to share his love for books at the same level as other over-pressured children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You have ONE child, right PP? My oldest was an early reader. Identified all letters before she turned 2, knew they letter sounds perfectly. Could read CVC words at 3, chapter books at 4.5. She loved it and begged us to teach her. My second came along and he loved being read to, but didn’t learn CVC words until Kindergarten. Not due to lack of time or attention to him, but because his brain just wasn’t ready for it like his older sister. He is much better at math than she is, both of them have been identified as gifted. Just saying, you were able to teach your 3/4 year old to read because his brain was ready, maybe if you had another kid you would see they might not have the same schedule. Some kids do learn and pick it up early, but if a preschool is focusing so hard on getting kids to read, some of those kids will end up embarrassed and frustrated by not being able to complete the curriculum like other friends. It’s not about the play, pp, it’s about maximizing their time in preschool and building solid foundations so they are ready to learn when their time comes.

I don't understand this reasoning. Because SOME children may not be able to do it, NO ONE should try?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What type of curriculum is this?

It is called developmentally inappropriate curriculum.

+1

Speaking as the mother of a child in Kindergarten -- why wouldn't you let your child stay in a fun, playful environment for as long as possible? Kids learn through play. A 3.5 year old should NOT be doing worksheets, learning to read and write in a structured environment.

My kindergartener attended a play-based preschool that did teach developmentally appropriate things (how to write her name, the letters of the alphabet and the sounds they make, numbers, colors, shapes, cutting, not to mention social skills, and other things kids will need like standing in line, following directions, etc., and is thriving in Kindergarten.

My current 3.5 year old is at the same school and is already trying to read (older sibling's influence, and I say trying, because she's not making THAT much progress, lol).

Please don't do this to your child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You want an academic preschool. You shouldn't, but you do.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to these ridiculous posters, the handwringing over anxious preschoolers completing reams of worksheets is just a reflection of parents worried other kids are outpacing their own. My child went to an academic preschool where they played but also spent an hour writing, reading (letter sounds) and adding small numbers. My child also *gasp* spent 30 minutes at home practicing phonics and a K math book daily. When did he play? The rest of the whole day! He missed absolutely nothing, and went into K reading chapter books. I really don’t get the Only Play thing with kids.

You're right, I'm super jealous that your kid is bored in Kindergarten and probably acting out.

[Anonymous]

I keep seeing name-writing listed as some sort of meaningful milestone. Teaching kids to write their name by copying it over and over, before they understand anything about blending letter sounds into words, is worthless educationally and is just done to have something to show parents. If your kid can't read or write "dog," teaching her to write "Larleena" is a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I am not surprised by the responses, but I will give more info on my view then bow out. I do agree emergent curriculum and play based can be excellent for children. But, bluntly, you need very strong teachers and low student teacher ratio for it to be more then essentially babysitting kids while they play with toys or on a playground. You need creative teachers who are fully invested daily and ensure learning themes come up during exchanges with children. Sounds like some of you have that. Our school is lacking in that department. It's teachers letting kids "chose" to play dolls, build, etc, while teachers sit around and watch. And I think this is what goes on at the majority of preschools using this curriculum, unless they have an extensively trained staff which is frankly unlikely given what we pay providers in the US. Again, I think its great in theory, but rarely implemented professionally or appropriately so I am hesitant to go to another school touting this.

My other child started K this year in northern virginia. Every single child could write there name on day 1, and its a large class. Most kids were 6 yrs old or soon to be. Our PK has let us know quite directly that they do not think a child needs to write their name by K, that is not necessary or age appropriate. This to me goes back to what is theoretically ideal, but is not operating in the local reality my kid (any many of yours) will enter. As I said, my kid will be a very young K - and will be entering a class with mostly 6 year olds thanks to this red shirt epidemic in N. Va. It's not out of the line for me to expect her PK to ensure she is prepped for K. They have said bluntly they will not because they disagree with the reality of what K is now... So I am looking for a place that will make sure my child is not behind peers. Im taking the advice to re-look at montessori, as one PP noted many places claim to be that with no certification so I will look closely.

You're either nuts or you live in an outlier try-hard community like McLean or North Arlington. I live in Northern Virginia, there is no "red shirt epidemic" except in some very wealthy communities and here on DCUM. My child has a summer birthday (turned 5 right before K) and her friends (male and female) turned 6 in Kindergarten. She had ONE kid in a class of 21 children that had been redshirted, and he had an August birthday. She could write her name (learned in preschool) but did not know how to read. She was most certainly NOT the only kid in K who didn't know how to read. It was probably about half and half, and even the readers weren't particularly advanced except maybe two or three. The red-shirted kid, by the way, was a good friend of hers and they had several playdates. I really didn't see much difference in their behavior even though he was 14 months older than her. I doubt he was any more prepared for school than she was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. I am not surprised by the responses, but I will give more info on my view then bow out. I do agree emergent curriculum and play based can be excellent for children. But, bluntly, you need very strong teachers and low student teacher ratio for it to be more then essentially babysitting kids while they play with toys or on a playground. You need creative teachers who are fully invested daily and ensure learning themes come up during exchanges with children. Sounds like some of you have that. Our school is lacking in that department. It's teachers letting kids "chose" to play dolls, build, etc, while teachers sit around and watch. And I think this is what goes on at the majority of preschools using this curriculum, unless they have an extensively trained staff which is frankly unlikely given what we pay providers in the US. Again, I think its great in theory, but rarely implemented professionally or appropriately so I am hesitant to go to another school touting this.

My other child started K this year in northern virginia. Every single child could write there name on day 1, and its a large class. Most kids were 6 yrs old or soon to be. Our PK has let us know quite directly that they do not think a child needs to write their name by K, that is not necessary or age appropriate. This to me goes back to what is theoretically ideal, but is not operating in the local reality my kid (any many of yours) will enter. As I said, my kid will be a very young K - and will be entering a class with mostly 6 year olds thanks to this red shirt epidemic in N. Va. It's not out of the line for me to expect her PK to ensure she is prepped for K. They have said bluntly they will not because they disagree with the reality of what K is now... So I am looking for a place that will make sure my child is not behind peers. Im taking the advice to re-look at montessori, as one PP noted many places claim to be that with no certification so I will look closely.

NP here. I agree w/ you OP. My kid doesn't like being the worst at something in a group and it affects how much she likes doing that activity. Yes, we should work on that. But we will do that with something like gymnastics or soccer, where if it doesn't work out soon, it doesn't matter; I am not going to experiment/teach her a lesson with school. I've seen other parents go down that route and their kids hate/fear school and that's not a place I want to be. In my kid's DCPS T1 PK4, all of the kids can write their names at this point in the year bar one who has physical special needs; the kids are "tested" (my DD didn't realize it was happening, so clearly done subtly) against a checklist of skills that includes recognizing letters and letter sounds, writing all letters, counting objects to 30 and recognizing written numerals 0-9, a variety of shape and body part names, a bunch of colors, etc. If you start K without these skills, you would be pulled out of class starting on the first day of the second month for small group intensive instruction to catch up. Not a huge deal, those kids will learn. But, (1) those kids are definitely behind the skill-level expectation of the school/what the school is set up to teach to the full class and so they may fall behind on class instruction, which is covering reading CVC words and trying to write easy words; and (2) my own kid would hate it and be embarrassed and it would turn her off from the activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What type of curriculum is this?

It is called developmentally inappropriate curriculum.

+1

Speaking as the mother of a child in Kindergarten -- why wouldn't you let your child stay in a fun, playful environment for as long as possible? Kids learn through play. A 3.5 year old should NOT be doing worksheets, learning to read and write in a structured environment.

My kindergartener attended a play-based preschool that did teach developmentally appropriate things (how to write her name, the letters of the alphabet and the sounds they make, numbers, colors, shapes, cutting, not to mention social skills, and other things kids will need like standing in line, following directions, etc., and is thriving in Kindergarten.

My current 3.5 year old is at the same school and is already trying to read (older sibling's influence, and I say trying, because she's not making THAT much progress, lol).

Please don't do this to your child.

You understand that your preschool is doing the same things that OP wants her preschool to do, except you insist on calling it play-based? yes?

I am still puzzled that you think thirty minutes of writing and reading prep a day somehow kills play for the rest of the day forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What type of curriculum is this?

It is called developmentally inappropriate curriculum.

+1

Speaking as the mother of a child in Kindergarten -- why wouldn't you let your child stay in a fun, playful environment for as long as possible? Kids learn through play. A 3.5 year old should NOT be doing worksheets, learning to read and write in a structured environment.

My kindergartener attended a play-based preschool that did teach developmentally appropriate things (how to write her name, the letters of the alphabet and the sounds they make, numbers, colors, shapes, cutting, not to mention social skills, and other things kids will need like standing in line, following directions, etc., and is thriving in Kindergarten.

My current 3.5 year old is at the same school and is already trying to read (older sibling's influence, and I say trying, because she's not making THAT much progress, lol).

Please don't do this to your child.

You understand that your preschool is doing the same things that OP wants her preschool to do, except you insist on calling it play-based? yes?

I am still puzzled that you think thirty minutes of writing and reading prep a day somehow kills play for the rest of the day forever.

NP. I mean, this is why you need to ask questions because there is variability among preschools that call themselves academic (or play based). I pulled my child from a daycare that started implementing a very ad hoc academic curriculum. He was coming home with all of these completed worksheets and "homework" at age 3. It was more than 30 min and outside time was shortened to allow more time for the academic activities. I had no interest in another two full years of that so we moved him to a center that follows the Creative Curriculum and it's been a better fit. He's still learning but seems to be having more fun.

[Anonymous]

I want to note that the OP's kid is age 3.5 -- therefore in a preschool class for 3 year olds, presumably. The OP's kid still has an entire PK4 year ahead of them before K. The preK program is far more likely to incorporate some more academic elements, like recognizing or writing letters, than the preschool 3 program.

In a decent preschool 3 program, there might be some counting out loud of objects on a casual basis, teaching "more" and "less", "bigger" and "smaller", etc. In PK4, there will probably be more rote counting (i.e. counting off the number of kids in circle time, etc.) PS3 and PK4 can and should have different expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I teach at a play-based preschool, but I used to work at a more academic preschool. Some kids were fine, but some were actually stressed out by the worksheets and the expectations to hold a pencil right before their little hands were ready. It was really sad—kids shouldn’t be stressed in preschool!

The things they do in a play based preschool are the stepping stones to Kindergarten and beyond. You think playdoh is a waste of time? Squeezing playdoh strengthens their hands so their muscles are developed later to help with writing skills. Same with climbing on the playground—going up those ladders, swinging on the bars—all that is important for core strength, which helps kids sit appropriately in their chairs in elementary school. Listening to stores in story time and retelling them with puppets or felt boards help children analyze content and remember sequencing. It may seem like “just play” but most preschool and daycare teachers are using cross-disciplinary activities (reading a book, doing an art project, science project, and finder play
All on the same theme to solidify concepts in their minds).

Maybe your kid will be fine in an academic preschool, but maybe he/she will end up feeling stressed about school at such a young age, or will miss some of the stepping stones, or be burnt out by 1st grade if two years of
Preschool is all about worksheets.

Yes! Are you looking for a job? I'd love to hire you at the program I direct... you GET it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It's amazing how American educators are deluded about "learning through play", or what's developmentally inappropriate for young children. Nothing could be further than the truth. I'm a research scientist. I've read the studies. Most studies in the education field are deeply flawed, because unlike the hard sciences, it's very challenging to construct objective studies about something so qualitatively and quantitatively difficult to measure as "developmental learning". This is something all soft sciences struggle with. It's not as easy as counting the rate of infection for the new coronavirus.

Children are going to learn through play no matter what. Every young of every species is hard-wired to do just that. It's not something you can stop or hinder in any way unless you lock a child in a closet or deprive him of basic necessities like food and shelter.

If you add something more structured for a few hours every week, where they need to sit, listen, follow directions, work on fine motor skills like writing, and logical reasoning like math, IT WON'T HURT THEM. It just adds to the learning they're already doing.

You don’t seem to know much about fine motor control. There’s a reason we teach pincer grip using tweezers, threading shoelaces, etc. Pencil grip is something that develops at different times depending on a variety of factors. We’re at a point that kids have awful handwriting because they’re being pushed earlier and earlier to try to write. Yes, it’s detrimental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I teach at a play-based preschool, but I used to work at a more academic preschool. Some kids were fine, but some were actually stressed out by the worksheets and the expectations to hold a pencil right before their little hands were ready. It was really sad—kids shouldn’t be stressed in preschool!

The things they do in a play based preschool are the stepping stones to Kindergarten and beyond. You think playdoh is a waste of time? Squeezing playdoh strengthens their hands so their muscles are developed later to help with writing skills. Same with climbing on the playground—going up those ladders, swinging on the bars—all that is important for core strength, which helps kids sit appropriately in their chairs in elementary school. Listening to stores in story time and retelling them with puppets or felt boards help children analyze content and remember sequencing. It may seem like “just play” but most preschool and daycare teachers are using cross-disciplinary activities (reading a book, doing an art project, science project, and finder play
All on the same theme to solidify concepts in their minds).

Maybe your kid will be fine in an academic preschool, but maybe he/she will end up feeling stressed about school at such a young age, or will miss some of the stepping stones, or be burnt out by 1st grade if two years of
Preschool is all about worksheets.

Yes! Are you looking for a job? I'd love to hire you at the program I direct... you GET it!

Thank you! I’m flattered