is there hope for a dog once it bites and shows aggression?

[Anonymous]

If you are not a professional dog trainer you are going to fail. A professional would probably put the dog down as hopeless to train anyway. You have a ticking time bomb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are not a professional dog trainer you are going to fail. A professional would probably put the dog down as hopeless to train anyway. You have a ticking time bomb.

+1

[Anonymous]

An experienced dog trainer (who trains military and other working dogs) told me that you generally cannot train a dog to prevent aggression toward people once the dog has displayed such aggression, whether it's based on fear and anxiety or something else. It's like something has snapped in the dog's brain. I'm sorry you're going through this, OP, but it is likely best to euthanize the dog.

[Anonymous]

You need to put the aggression e dog down. You also need to pay for that child’s therapy. You’ve probably traumatized the poor kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You need to put the aggression e dog down. You also need to pay for that child’s therapy. You’ve probably traumatized the poor kid.

My spouse works in an ER and often sees dog bites. Usually it's in a similar situation to OP's--dog is with kids for a few min away from adult supervision, and whoops, one day the dog is having a bad day and nips. I have a sense that in most cases, the dog is NOT put down, except for when there's a very serious bite.

Posters here are presenting a doomsday scenario, but if you find a really experienced behaviorist and are willing to make significant changes (like keeping the dog away from situations with people outside the family), the dog may have a chance to be reformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to put the aggression e dog down. You also need to pay for that child’s therapy. You’ve probably traumatized the poor kid.

My spouse works in an ER and often sees dog bites. Usually it's in a similar situation to OP's--dog is with kids for a few min away from adult supervision, and whoops, one day the dog is having a bad day and nips. I have a sense that in most cases, the dog is NOT put down, except for when there's a very serious bite.

Posters here are presenting a doomsday scenario, but if you find a really experienced behaviorist and are willing to make significant changes (like keeping the dog away from situations with people outside the family), the dog may have a chance to be reformed.

NP. The OP said she has young children. That is a deal-breaker for keeping the dog. No parent of young kids should be taking the risk of keeping a dog like this for the indeterminate amount of time needed to "find a really experienced behaviorist," work and work with that behaviorist, "make significant changes" (such as what? Isolate the dog from the kids indefinitely and hope there's never a slip-up that puts dog and kid in the same place unattended for even a moment?).

OP, find a no-kill shelter ASAP if you cannot bear to euthanize. Do you really want to spend the vast amounts of time and attention and stress you'll have to invest to even attempt to train the dog? Do you really want to live with the constant tension of wondering if and when the dog might bite one of your children? That's not a good life for you, your kids or the dog.

I note too that posters like this PP tend to use the term "nip" to downplay bites. OP, just because the kid whom your dog "nipped" only was bruised, don't think "My dog just nips." This time you and the kid were very lucky, that's all.

It is not a "doomsday scenario" to be the adult, realize that keeping the dog means living with constant stress of "when couId it happen again?", and to get the dog out of your home. Put your kids and your sanity ahead of bawling for the dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ To add, when I was younger, I had a biter. She did basically what your dog did, but only twice. I trained her hard. Learned good situations for her. She lived from age2-16 without ever another incident.

GSDs are super smart dogs and can be handled. But you need someone who knows how to work with this breed. And with you.

Did you have children in the home at the time you had the dog? Young children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The gathering was at my parents' house. The dog has been there a lot and is very happy there. (There's a lot of room to run.) It's out of town so the only other option would have been to kennel her. The difference this time was the volume of people. My dad yells to me informing me that the dog was inside the house (everyone else was outside), and then a few minutes later I hear yelling about the bite. Apparently someone let her out of the house. If there is a "next time," we will have to keep her locked up where someone can't casually let her out. She hates the crate but we may have to start using it regularly. We'll see what the behaviorist said. My family has had several GSDs and this is the first biting incident for any of them. They are a real handful and I would never get one again unless I lived in a very different environment.

You said you told people she "needed space" and has a hard time with groups, so by saying that you demonstrated that you KNEW there is a risk with this dog. Many years ago, my sister took her kids and my DS to a haunted farm/corn maze place. They were in some kind of building shortly before they were going to leave, there was an older farm-type dog (no particular breed), DS reached down to stroke her fur, caught his fingers in fur tangled in some burrs, and she went for him. Even though he had a pretty heavy jacket he had two very ugly wounds and required 12 stitches total. Shortly after a girl with a church group tried to pet the dog and also got bit. She got a big settlement because she was bite #2. For a variety of reasons I did not pursue a legal case, although some years later was told by a lawyer it would be hard since DS had the first bite. But my sister was told by other people there (the guy's neighbors) that the dog had hip problems and arthritis and pain. Anyway, it showed terrible judgment to put the dog in the position of hundreds of people a night coming through this farm.

See what the behaviorist has to say but especially how socialization is to be handled and what kinds of situations the dog can be allowed to be in. Based on that, you'll have to figure out whether you can provide what the dog needs and if not, find out what alternatives there are for the dog besides euthanasia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to put the aggression e dog down. You also need to pay for that child’s therapy. You’ve probably traumatized the poor kid.

My spouse works in an ER and often sees dog bites. Usually it's in a similar situation to OP's--dog is with kids for a few min away from adult supervision, and whoops, one day the dog is having a bad day and nips. I have a sense that in most cases, the dog is NOT put down, except for when there's a very serious bite.

Posters here are presenting a doomsday scenario, but if you find a really experienced behaviorist and are willing to make significant changes (like keeping the dog away from situations with people outside the family), the dog may have a chance to be reformed.

NP. The OP said she has young children. That is a deal-breaker for keeping the dog. No parent of young kids should be taking the risk of keeping a dog like this for the indeterminate amount of time needed to "find a really experienced behaviorist," work and work with that behaviorist, "make significant changes" (such as what? Isolate the dog from the kids indefinitely and hope there's never a slip-up that puts dog and kid in the same place unattended for even a moment?).

OP, find a no-kill shelter ASAP if you cannot bear to euthanize. Do you really want to spend the vast amounts of time and attention and stress you'll have to invest to even attempt to train the dog? Do you really want to live with the constant tension of wondering if and when the dog might bite one of your children? That's not a good life for you, your kids or the dog.

I note too that posters like this PP tend to use the term "nip" to downplay bites. OP, just because the kid whom your dog "nipped" only was bruised, don't think "My dog just nips." This time you and the kid were very lucky, that's all.

It is not a "doomsday scenario" to be the adult, realize that keeping the dog means living with constant stress of "when couId it happen again?", and to get the dog out of your home. Put your kids and your sanity ahead of bawling for the dog.

PP here. We took a class when I was pregnant called "Dogs and kids, playing it safe," which taught us how not to "magnetize" babies and young kids to the dog in order to prevent bites. Since basically day 1, we've followed these tips and kept our kid away from the dog, trained her in touching the dog appropriately, etc. I agree this would be more difficult to institute with older kids who may be used to certain habits, but I'd speak to the behaviorist before drawing conclusions about what can and can't be done at this point. All of us our just drawing from anecdata; I'd get the expert's opinion.

As for nips, it seems most are actually not very serious bites. However, in some cases dogs have mauled kids' faces pretty badly, and I wouldn't minimize that at all.

[Anonymous]

OP, utilize the vet and behaviorist. Use a muzzle and crate train. Ask their honest opinions if you and the dog can be retrained. I agree with the other posters that your GS is 99% likely not the right fit for you and your family and you should start looking for people more experienced to adopt her.

This book is really thoughtful on training and selection for personality. Please give it a read:

Team Dog: How to Train Your Dog--the Navy SEAL Way
by Mike Ritland

https://www.amazon.com/Team-Dog-Train-Your-Dog/dp/0425276279

[Anonymous]

That dog shouldn’t be around kids. Or unfamiliar people. The fact that you would put the dog in that situation is irresponsible. Your lucky someone want seriously hurt. That kid will now be fearful of dogs. What a shame. If I were the kids parent, I would be extremely upset.

[Anonymous]

I realize people love their dogs, but objectively speaking this is like saying “I have a hyena/rattlesnake/loaded unsecured gun/unstable contract killer who has already hurt at least one child, can I keep it around my young children since I love it so?” The answer is NO.

[Anonymous]

OP- I'm sorry--and double sorry that you're getting a lot of negativity in such a hard situation. Sometimes it's hard to know what a dog will do until they do it, and no one is perfect.

I also have a dog with some hard-to-solve anxiety issues- the difference is that she's 16 pounds, not a German shepherd- so in practical terms, less of a danger and easier for me to contain and control. I know that's harsh, but your dog is the size to truly traumatize or severely injure or kill a person or another dog in an attack. She is already medicated, and it hasn't changed things.

A vet specialist might encourage you to consider putting the dog down- my experience is that they are pragmatic about aggressive dogs.

*If* you decide to keep the dog, you need to be prepared for containment. Leash and muzzle or crate if anyone but immediate family is in the house. Walks during odd times when fewer people/dogs are out, and a full muzzle and harness that provides you with a lot of gentle control. Significant training to lessen your dog's issues, but not your vigilance over time. No surprises--no unexpected visitors just walking through the door before you have a chance to contain your dog (this is very hard when your kids get older and have neighborhood friends). if you can't do this forever, then you shouldn't keep the dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- I'm sorry--and double sorry that you're getting a lot of negativity in such a hard situation. Sometimes it's hard to know what a dog will do until they do it, and no one is perfect.

I also have a dog with some hard-to-solve anxiety issues- the difference is that she's 16 pounds, not a German shepherd- so in practical terms, less of a danger and easier for me to contain and control. I know that's harsh, but your dog is the size to truly traumatize or severely injure or kill a person or another dog in an attack. She is already medicated, and it hasn't changed things.

A vet specialist might encourage you to consider putting the dog down- my experience is that they are pragmatic about aggressive dogs.

*If* you decide to keep the dog, you need to be prepared for containment. Leash and muzzle or crate if anyone but immediate family is in the house. Walks during odd times when fewer people/dogs are out, and a full muzzle and harness that provides you with a lot of gentle control. Significant training to lessen your dog's issues, but not your vigilance over time. No surprises--no unexpected visitors just walking through the door before you have a chance to contain your dog (this is very hard when your kids get older and have neighborhood friends). if you can't do this forever, then you shouldn't keep the dog.

pp here-- re: my last sentence, I mean that in a kind way. It's a a difficult way to live and even if you commit to it, mistakes may happen because you and your family are human. It just takes letting your guard down once. Feel sad, mourn, but don't fee guilty if it's too much and you need to make a hard choice. A dog trainer might be able to handle this, but most regular families cannot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- I'm sorry--and double sorry that you're getting a lot of negativity in such a hard situation. Sometimes it's hard to know what a dog will do until they do it, and no one is perfect.

I also have a dog with some hard-to-solve anxiety issues- the difference is that she's 16 pounds, not a German shepherd- so in practical terms, less of a danger and easier for me to contain and control. I know that's harsh, but your dog is the size to truly traumatize or severely injure or kill a person or another dog in an attack. She is already medicated, and it hasn't changed things.

A vet specialist might encourage you to consider putting the dog down- my experience is that they are pragmatic about aggressive dogs.

*If* you decide to keep the dog, you need to be prepared for containment. Leash and muzzle or crate if anyone but immediate family is in the house. Walks during odd times when fewer people/dogs are out, and a full muzzle and harness that provides you with a lot of gentle control. Significant training to lessen your dog's issues, but not your vigilance over time. No surprises--no unexpected visitors just walking through the door before you have a chance to contain your dog (this is very hard when your kids get older and have neighborhood friends). if you can't do this forever, then you shouldn't keep the dog.

Yep. If you can't be super vigilant every day forever, please find a rescue to take the dog.

If not, OP, this is how you and your family can expect your kids' childhoods to go:

No unexpected visitors. Ever. Be ready at all times to grab the dog. No kids just appearing at the door to play with your kids. Word will get around that you seem to be nervous around your own dog and alwsys restrain or crate him, so parents will learn not to send kids over much.

When others' kids do end up at your house, constant concern: Is the dog securely crated? If the dog's in the yard--wait, did I just hear the back door open--I told the kids not to go out there because the dog's there...

No impromptu trips for your family because what if the dog would freak out at a dog-sitter coming to the house and/or be anxious and get aggressive at a kennel? Planned trips? Maybe, if you do a ton of prep for the dog and find a kennel that works for him.

If you're up for the dog having that level of constant vigilance in your everyday life year after year, keep this dog. For me, there would be none of the happiness and relaxation that a pet can bring but there'd be a lot of daily concern. If you're fine with that, OK. But it seems like a stressful life for the humans AND for the dog. Your kids couldn't play with or walk the dog without at least some level of worry.

Surely some rescue group can find him a home where he can live without being constantly curbed, and you can find a dog that doesn't have his issues and anxiety.