Residency Requirement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

Great! See, sometimes cheaters do win!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

I could tell a similar sad story about people who commit other crimes, like robbery. That doesn’t mean that fraud should be tolerated. It means we need more family friendly workplace policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Answer me this:

According to the Office of Planning, DC has 96,250 school-age residents. According to the DME, between DCPS and charters there are 91,484 public school students. Enrollment data from private schools show that roughly 5% of DC kids go to private school.

So if there is widespread fraud, where are the kids?

The only explanation I can think of is that an equivalent number of kids are fraudulently going to school in Maryland.

5% of 96,250 + 91484 is 96296. Given that you said "roughly 5%" and a tiny tweak would make the result exactly 96,250, is it possible that the Office of Planning figure for school-age residents is simply derived from the enrollment data?

A fair question. OP gets its numbers from the Census Bureau, which does a physical count of every person in the country every decade and continually surveys to update those numbers with estimates every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Answer me this:

According to the Office of Planning, DC has 96,250 school-age residents. According to the DME, between DCPS and charters there are 91,484 public school students. Enrollment data from private schools show that roughly 5% of DC kids go to private school.

So if there is widespread fraud, where are the kids?

The only explanation I can think of is that an equivalent number of kids are fraudulently going to school in Maryland.

5% of 96,250 + 91484 is 96296. Given that you said "roughly 5%" and a tiny tweak would make the result exactly 96,250, is it possible that the Office of Planning figure for school-age residents is simply derived from the enrollment data?

I had the same thought but no. https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DC_MFP_2019_Feb%2021_Final_compressed_0.pdf

My other thought is that the person who cited that stat on private school enrollment did the math between the two cited numbers and then said the 5% difference is private school students. Not sure that works -- this analysis on segregation in DC schools found 15% of DC students were in private school. But that relies on 2011 data from the Department of ED. http://www.shankerinstitute.org/sites/shanker/files/DCSEGfinal_2.pdf

Regardless, I don't think this is knowable from public data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

I could tell a similar sad story about people who commit other crimes, like robbery. That doesn’t mean that fraud should be tolerated. It means we need more family friendly workplace policies.

I agree and understand, but changing policies in the future, doesn't often help people who are desperate in the present. It's good to work on better policies for the future, but sometimes you have to forgive those who cheat when they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. What was this woman supposed to do? Quit her job? Get fired? Get her house foreclosed on? Not put her child in school and just bring her child to work?

It's so nice to be on your high horse and look down and report someone violating the rules until you find that you've destroyed a family with no options.

[Anonymous]

Maybe this is an ignorant question, but how is residency fraud even possible? When I enrolled my kid in PK3 last month, I had to bring in my pay stub and my driver's license to demonstrate that I was a resident. How can it be enough to just use a friend or family member's address and say you live there?

Or maybe the further question is that if you're changing your tax withholdings to say you're a DC resident and you aren't, wouldn't that be tax fraud? Couldn't your state of residence (this primarily seems to happen in MD) come after you for unpaid taxes? And wouldn't you have to maintain that your residence is the DC address for as long as you have your child enrolled in the school?

I'm not saying residency fraud never happens, but it seems awfully complicated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

I could tell a similar sad story about people who commit other crimes, like robbery. That doesn’t mean that fraud should be tolerated. It means we need more family friendly workplace policies.

I agree and understand, but changing policies in the future, doesn't often help people who are desperate in the present. It's good to work on better policies for the future, but sometimes you have to forgive those who cheat when they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. What was this woman supposed to do? Quit her job? Get fired? Get her house foreclosed on? Not put her child in school and just bring her child to work?

It's so nice to be on your high horse and look down and report someone violating the rules until you find that you've destroyed a family with no options.

I grew up in a family with little money and my parents both had to leave for work very early. My mom took me to a babysitter in the mornings before school and the babysitter took me and her son (who was in the same grade) into school. There are other options that don't include committing fraud. I'm not saying this woman's story isn't sympathetic, but the person giving this story makes it sound like she had NO other options. Of course that isn't true. Perhaps committing residency fraud was the easiest and least expensive of her available options, but it wasn't her only option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this is an ignorant question, but how is residency fraud even possible? When I enrolled my kid in PK3 last month, I had to bring in my pay stub and my driver's license to demonstrate that I was a resident. How can it be enough to just use a friend or family member's address and say you live there?

Or maybe the further question is that if you're changing your tax withholdings to say you're a DC resident and you aren't, wouldn't that be tax fraud? Couldn't your state of residence (this primarily seems to happen in MD) come after you for unpaid taxes? And wouldn't you have to maintain that your residence is the DC address for as long as you have your child enrolled in the school?

I'm not saying residency fraud never happens, but it seems awfully complicated.

Not complicated at all. A coworker who is committing residency fraud (both parents own/live in a house in PG and have for aver 10 years, use grandmother's DC address, kid is in DC charter) enters our automated payroll system, changes her withholding to DC for a few weeks then back to MD. Her car is also registered in DC and she has a DC license.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe this is an ignorant question, but how is residency fraud even possible? When I enrolled my kid in PK3 last month, I had to bring in my pay stub and my driver's license to demonstrate that I was a resident. How can it be enough to just use a friend or family member's address and say you live there?

Or maybe the further question is that if you're changing your tax withholdings to say you're a DC resident and you aren't, wouldn't that be tax fraud? Couldn't your state of residence (this primarily seems to happen in MD) come after you for unpaid taxes? And wouldn't you have to maintain that your residence is the DC address for as long as you have your child enrolled in the school?

I'm not saying residency fraud never happens, but it seems awfully complicated.

For the W2 ... You don't necessarily change your withholdings permanently. For example, I can log into ADP and change my address anytime, which would change my withholding. The pay stub has to be within 45 days, so you can change it for a few weeks prior to registration. DC/MD/VA are quite accustomed to people working partial years in other jurisdictions and it's easy to sort it all out when you pay your taxes, no fraud committed.

Yes, you would need to do this every year.

Keep in mind there's a bunch of different documents you can use to prove residency. Doesn't have to be a pay stub, and doesn't have to be a driver's license.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

I could tell a similar sad story about people who commit other crimes, like robbery. That doesn’t mean that fraud should be tolerated. It means we need more family friendly workplace policies.

I agree and understand, but changing policies in the future, doesn't often help people who are desperate in the present. It's good to work on better policies for the future, but sometimes you have to forgive those who cheat when they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. What was this woman supposed to do? Quit her job? Get fired? Get her house foreclosed on? Not put her child in school and just bring her child to work?

It's so nice to be on your high horse and look down and report someone violating the rules until you find that you've destroyed a family with no options.

It’s fraud. And that woman took a spot from a low income desperate to go to a better school Ward 8 family who are also in a terrible position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Answer me this:

According to the Office of Planning, DC has 96,250 school-age residents. According to the DME, between DCPS and charters there are 91,484 public school students. Enrollment data from private schools show that roughly 5% of DC kids go to private school.

So if there is widespread fraud, where are the kids?

The only explanation I can think of is that an equivalent number of kids are fraudulently going to school in Maryland.

5% of 96,250 + 91484 is 96296. Given that you said "roughly 5%" and a tiny tweak would make the result exactly 96,250, is it possible that the Office of Planning figure for school-age residents is simply derived from the enrollment data?

I had the same thought but no. https://dme.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/dme/publication/attachments/DC_MFP_2019_Feb%2021_Final_compressed_0.pdf

My other thought is that the person who cited that stat on private school enrollment did the math between the two cited numbers and then said the 5% difference is private school students. Not sure that works -- this analysis on segregation in DC schools found 15% of DC students were in private school. But that relies on 2011 data from the Department of ED. http://www.shankerinstitute.org/sites/shanker/files/DCSEGfinal_2.pdf

Regardless, I don't think this is knowable from public data.

There really aren't good numbers about private school attendance. The Shanker study shows that 15% of the students in DC are in private schools. But other studies show that about two thirds of the kids in DC private schools live in MD and VA. So DC kids in DC private schools are about 5% of the students. I don't know if anyone tracks how many DC kids go to privates in the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

Great! See, sometimes cheaters do win!

What's the statue of limitations on DC recovering the funds due from her fraud?

[Anonymous]

not a criminal lawyer, but I was under the impression that, barring newly discovered facts, most everything but murder has a statute of limitations of three years or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

Great! See, sometimes cheaters do win!

What's the statue of limitations on DC recovering the funds due from her fraud?

Goodness. Some of you are the type that would kick and mug Valjean and Fantine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know one residency cheat from years past. This woman and her child were abandoned by her husband (he left the area and they had no contact from him or contact info for him for many years). She worked for a federal agency downtown and had strict hours. Even with before and after care, she could not meet her work required hours (she was required to work 7:30-4:30, aftercare opened at 7:00 and it was a 45-90 minute drive in rush-hour to get to work depending on traffic). So, she used a friend's address to get her child into a school near her office where she could drop off at 7:15 and pick up at 4:45. At the time (this was about 15 years ago) there was no flexibility in her office and she could not afford to lose her job. At the time, they could not move as the house was not in a sellable condition and they would have had to sell for a loss; she had no money to bring to the table to sell the house.

Fortunately, that child has now graduated college and no one turned her in those many years ago. And the mother is in a much better place (and house) after all these years.

Great! See, sometimes cheaters do win!

What's the statue of limitations on DC recovering the funds due from her fraud?

Assuming this was somewhere near downtown, no one cared, those schools were desperate for bodies to fill the classrooms are 15 years ago.