Shepherd vs. ITS

[Anonymous]

I have friends that are IB for Shepherd and kid attends ITS (founding family). They are moving to Shepherd this year. From what I understand, although they rave about the school and love it, the value of a neighborhood school won out for them. They are also minority family and mentioned the high performance of AA students at Shepherd as a compelling feature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Shepherd for sure.

--ITS mom who is underwhelmed

Underwhelmed mom, I see you commenting on every thread about ITS and your underwhelment. A couple times I've tried to offer helpful suggestions but you seem determined to remain underwhelmed. What school were you at before? Were you underwhelmed there as well? Did you lottery for another school for next year?

[Anonymous]

The truth is, of course, that no school is perfect. I think people in areas without school choice deal with that, whereas many of us here in DC think that we can find that perfection. So, people are disappointed or underwhelmed when a school isn’t perfect for them. ITS is a school that is great for many, good/fine for others, and not a good fit for some. I’m sure the same can be said for Shepherd. If it’s your IB you can try ITS and then go back to Shepherd if it isn’t a right fit or the commute is a killer. You likely won’t have a chance to go back to ITS. (If you get a spot)

[Anonymous]

We were offered a spot this year and will likely take it. Our current IB middle isn't doing very well but we are also 6years away from middle school. Based on current knowledge if our kiddo is really heavy into sports or music we may need to find another fit or do a lot of pay to play. Which would be the case at most of our top choices and probably even our IB DCPS. Due to current under enrollment not every sport, arts or stem clubs in funded etc. If it was fully enrolled kid may not make the cut at a highly competitive program. So, again like many friends in MD, VA and DC rec and pay to play club sports or clubs are more likely. But then I attended a very small k-12 school much like ITS so ITS feels comfortable to me. My spouse attend private until middle then switched IB public in a pretty good school system. Keeping our options open. Hedging our bets on what seems to be a solid small school knowing we can go back to IB, play the lottery again if it isn't the right fit down the road. But then we are in NE and while the IB is full of great teachers very few of them would send their own kids to the school they reach at so... We shall give some where else a try.

[Anonymous]

Hoping ITS is a good fit for our silly, curious, high engery, beats to their own drum, little bit dorky, funky fashion style kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hoping ITS is a good fit for our silly, curious, high engery, beats to their own drum, little bit dorky, funky fashion style kid.

I know a lot of ITS students who sound very much like your kid and they seem to have strong friendships there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shepherd for sure.

--ITS mom who is underwhelmed

Underwhelmed mom, I see you commenting on every thread about ITS and your underwhelment. A couple times I've tried to offer helpful suggestions but you seem determined to remain underwhelmed. What school were you at before? Were you underwhelmed there as well? Did you lottery for another school for next year?

they came from Langley. and will see the light in 2nd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Shepherd for sure.

--ITS mom who is underwhelmed

Underwhelmed mom, I see you commenting on every thread about ITS and your underwhelment. A couple times I've tried to offer helpful suggestions but you seem determined to remain underwhelmed. What school were you at before? Were you underwhelmed there as well? Did you lottery for another school for next year?

they came from Langley. and will see the light in 2nd

I recognize her too from posts. She has regrets about leaving her IB school for a longer term option. However, in 2-3 years when no one she knows is at her IB school she will, as you say, see the light. School choice is not regret free and no school is nirvana.

[Anonymous]

Getting this thread back to OP question, can someone post the IB numbers for grades 1-5? I know we inbound families don’t fill those spots exclusively but I’m curious how many children actually reside inside Shepherd Park in grades other than prek-k. I think that would be useful info for the OP to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting this thread back to OP question, can someone post the IB numbers for grades 1-5? I know we inbound families don’t fill those spots exclusively but I’m curious how many children actually reside inside Shepherd Park in grades other than prek-k. I think that would be useful info for the OP to know.

That data is not given publicly and I wouldn’t trust an anonymous post. OP ought to email the neighborhood listserv to get real life feedback if she’s only looking for IB%. Although I’m not sure how that # helps her comparison as there are certainly more Shepherd Park kids (or immediate neighbors like Takoma) than there are at ITS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here — thank you all so much for these responses. This has been an incredibly helpful set of perspectives. This is leaving me feeling much more settled about the decision, should we be faced with one in the fall. Guess I’ll start hunting down good deals on white shirts and blue bottoms! Go Mustangs!

Please don’t just rely on this list. There are plenty of boosters on this thread who talk and talk about how great Shepherd is and maybe it really IS for their children. But there are plenty of us who live here and didn’t continue past a year. There are teachers who are great and others who will never leave no matter how many parents find their poor demeanor the antithesis of what teachers are supposed to be. And sure, you might get that at another neighborhood school too. But not at a place like ITS. Excellence in teaching is their core focus. Again, talk to your neighbors....please! Ask them their experience. And don’t discount what they say, or DON’T say, like I did. Looking back, there were signs I shouldn’t have sent my child there and I wish I would have listened. Walking to school is my more important than having a welcoming and loving school environment, each and every day.

NP here. This is a very real problem. There's a reason so many of our neighbors tried Shepherd and left. We're IB for Shepherd and have to make the choice between Shepherd and a HRC for the Fall too. We have a few weeks left until May 1 and we're torn. The commute would be an issue, and it's nice to have closer ties with neighborhood classmates. It's just not the same at charters where the classmates are all over the city.

There are benefits to walking to school, having school friends in the neighborhood, and being close by for volunteering, PTA meetings, etc. But Shepherd is NOT a progressive school and employs many out of date practices that are in direct conflict with accepted socio emotional practices. There are some bad teachers and the leadership does little to fix this situation. The bad teachers love the principal because she just leaves them alone. They know the principal blindly supports them even when multiple parents provide evidence of their performance issues. There's too much homework. The leadership doesn't welcome input from parents. It's a shame because Shepherd could be such a great school, but there's been a long history of ineffective principals.

That said, Shepherd just got approval for a new Vice Principal position and the benefits of the neighborhood school are still there. It's just that Shepherd isn't even close to operating on the same level as many of the other Deal/Wilson feeders and the current Principal isn't on the path to get us there.

We'll probably stick with Shepherd and try to be a part of the positive change. It's just very difficult to make headway when the leadership won't work with us and some booster parents are working against us by claiming everything is already great.

I think you're right about this, but a) the number of bad teachers is very small--some that families have complained about have actually been let go/moved on in the past few years, and b) based on the experience of friends, HRCSs have their share of problems too that simply being progressive can't fix.

Yes, Shepherd is a pretty traditional school, the principal doesn't have a strong vision and focuses perhaps too much on test scores, there are a few "old school" teachers/aides that are still there despite complaints (perhaps they have tenure? dunno), there can be a lot of HW depending on the teacher. However, there are old school teachers at several DCPS schools, even WOTP, so I'm not sure what you mean by Shepherd isn't "operating on the same level as other Deal/Wilson feeders." Yes, many of them raise a ton more money given the more affluent populations there--not sure if that was what you were referencing.

While all of that is true, there are many positives--some really great teachers, fantastic community feel, neighborhood school experience, kids learn a lot (decent test scores, and I believe it has the highest DCPS scores for AA students), International Bacc. with French and Spanish tracks, etc.

If you're a family that has strong opinions about preferring a progressive education, that's fine, and perhaps Lowell or one of the HRCSs would be a better fit. But if you are the type of family that values neighborhood schools even if traditional, and can sort of roll with minor headaches (e.g., events planned with perhaps not as much notice as would be preferable), value diversity and smaller schools, and like walking to school, then Shepherd is a great DCPS choice.

PP here. Regarding "operating on the same level as other Deal/Wilson feeders," I was referring to leadership engagement with parents, stronger socio emotional skills for teachers, staying on top of basic sanitary/facilities issues with the city, PARCC scores, outdated practices like too much homework and uniforms (not effective at improving learning results or behavior), etc. Of course there are wonderful things about Shepherd, and I listed many of those. However, we're not being honest with ourselves if we think there's no need for some major improvements above and beyond the types of issues experienced at the other Deal/Wilson feeders. Shepherd Elementary serves a very well off boundary. The only reason the school doesn't reflect the community is because the way it's operating drives away many of our neighbors.

While I wasn't referring to parent fundraising, I do believe that this would increase if Shepherd would improve to attract more of the in boundary community. I don't believe that the parent community at Janney or Murch is so much wealthier than the in boundary community for Shepherd. However, Shepherd isn't deemed acceptable by many in boundary families, many who choose charters or other DCPS. They're not opposed to public schools, just not willing to send their kids to Shepherd. The fundraising is a side issue though and the main goal is to bring Shepherd up to the same standards as our WOTP counterparts. I see no reason this couldn't be done given the amazing in boundary families. DCPS just needs to make it a priority to get the right leadership in place.

FWIW, I agree with you regarding issues with HRCs. It's one of the issues giving us pause about accepting a slot, along with commute, neighborhood activities and friends, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here — thank you all so much for these responses. This has been an incredibly helpful set of perspectives. This is leaving me feeling much more settled about the decision, should we be faced with one in the fall. Guess I’ll start hunting down good deals on white shirts and blue bottoms! Go Mustangs!

Please don’t just rely on this list. There are plenty of boosters on this thread who talk and talk about how great Shepherd is and maybe it really IS for their children. But there are plenty of us who live here and didn’t continue past a year. There are teachers who are great and others who will never leave no matter how many parents find their poor demeanor the antithesis of what teachers are supposed to be. And sure, you might get that at another neighborhood school too. But not at a place like ITS. Excellence in teaching is their core focus. Again, talk to your neighbors....please! Ask them their experience. And don’t discount what they say, or DON’T say, like I did. Looking back, there were signs I shouldn’t have sent my child there and I wish I would have listened. Walking to school is my more important than having a welcoming and loving school environment, each and every day.

NP here. This is a very real problem. There's a reason so many of our neighbors tried Shepherd and left. We're IB for Shepherd and have to make the choice between Shepherd and a HRC for the Fall too. We have a few weeks left until May 1 and we're torn. The commute would be an issue, and it's nice to have closer ties with neighborhood classmates. It's just not the same at charters where the classmates are all over the city.

There are benefits to walking to school, having school friends in the neighborhood, and being close by for volunteering, PTA meetings, etc. But Shepherd is NOT a progressive school and employs many out of date practices that are in direct conflict with accepted socio emotional practices. There are some bad teachers and the leadership does little to fix this situation. The bad teachers love the principal because she just leaves them alone. They know the principal blindly supports them even when multiple parents provide evidence of their performance issues. There's too much homework. The leadership doesn't welcome input from parents. It's a shame because Shepherd could be such a great school, but there's been a long history of ineffective principals.

That said, Shepherd just got approval for a new Vice Principal position and the benefits of the neighborhood school are still there. It's just that Shepherd isn't even close to operating on the same level as many of the other Deal/Wilson feeders and the current Principal isn't on the path to get us there.

We'll probably stick with Shepherd and try to be a part of the positive change. It's just very difficult to make headway when the leadership won't work with us and some booster parents are working against us by claiming everything is already great.

I think you're right about this, but a) the number of bad teachers is very small--some that families have complained about have actually been let go/moved on in the past few years, and b) based on the experience of friends, HRCSs have their share of problems too that simply being progressive can't fix.

Yes, Shepherd is a pretty traditional school, the principal doesn't have a strong vision and focuses perhaps too much on test scores, there are a few "old school" teachers/aides that are still there despite complaints (perhaps they have tenure? dunno), there can be a lot of HW depending on the teacher. However, there are old school teachers at several DCPS schools, even WOTP, so I'm not sure what you mean by Shepherd isn't "operating on the same level as other Deal/Wilson feeders." Yes, many of them raise a ton more money given the more affluent populations there--not sure if that was what you were referencing.

While all of that is true, there are many positives--some really great teachers, fantastic community feel, neighborhood school experience, kids learn a lot (decent test scores, and I believe it has the highest DCPS scores for AA students), International Bacc. with French and Spanish tracks, etc.

If you're a family that has strong opinions about preferring a progressive education, that's fine, and perhaps Lowell or one of the HRCSs would be a better fit. But if you are the type of family that values neighborhood schools even if traditional, and can sort of roll with minor headaches (e.g., events planned with perhaps not as much notice as would be preferable), value diversity and smaller schools, and like walking to school, then Shepherd is a great DCPS choice.

PP here. Regarding "operating on the same level as other Deal/Wilson feeders," I was referring to leadership engagement with parents, stronger socio emotional skills for teachers, staying on top of basic sanitary/facilities issues with the city, PARCC scores, outdated practices like too much homework and uniforms (not effective at improving learning results or behavior), etc. Of course there are wonderful things about Shepherd, and I listed many of those. However, we're not being honest with ourselves if we think there's no need for some major improvements above and beyond the types of issues experienced at the other Deal/Wilson feeders. Shepherd Elementary serves a very well off boundary. The only reason the school doesn't reflect the community is because the way it's operating drives away many of our neighbors.

While I wasn't referring to parent fundraising, I do believe that this would increase if Shepherd would improve to attract more of the in boundary community. I don't believe that the parent community at Janney or Murch is so much wealthier than the in boundary community for Shepherd. However, Shepherd isn't deemed acceptable by many in boundary families, many who choose charters or other DCPS. They're not opposed to public schools, just not willing to send their kids to Shepherd. The fundraising is a side issue though and the main goal is to bring Shepherd up to the same standards as our WOTP counterparts. I see no reason this couldn't be done given the amazing in boundary families. DCPS just needs to make it a priority to get the right leadership in place.

FWIW, I agree with you regarding issues with HRCs. It's one of the issues giving us pause about accepting a slot, along with commute, neighborhood activities and friends, etc.

Curious what you mean about sanitary/facilities. Also, with regards to PARCC scores, what measure are you using? Raw PARCC or are you properly adjusting for demographics? If you’re doing the latter, you’ll see Shepherd is similar to other deal feeders (Hearst, Lafayette come to mind).

[Anonymous]

Another minor yet not minor things for many families is before and aftercare. I know Shepard has a good option and ITS does as well both covering breaks, pd days etc. I do not know the cost of each. I am feeling a bit annoyed that I have to be a Ymca member to get a lower price on school after care program. But then I guess at least we know we would have Seat. But dang if the cost isn't going to be issue for ua and probably other families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another minor yet not minor things for many families is before and aftercare. I know Shepard has a good option and ITS does as well both covering breaks, pd days etc. I do not know the cost of each. I am feeling a bit annoyed that I have to be a Ymca member to get a lower price on school after care program. But then I guess at least we know we would have Seat. But dang if the cost isn't going to be issue for ua and probably other families.

Good point, but even the higher price ($350) is fantastic considering it includes all days off including winter and spring break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting this thread back to OP question, can someone post the IB numbers for grades 1-5? I know we inbound families don’t fill those spots exclusively but I’m curious how many children actually reside inside Shepherd Park in grades other than prek-k. I think that would be useful info for the OP to know.

That data is not given publicly and I wouldn’t trust an anonymous post. OP ought to email the neighborhood listserv to get real life feedback if she’s only looking for IB%. Although I’m not sure how that # helps her comparison as there are certainly more Shepherd Park kids (or immediate neighbors like Takoma) than there are at ITS.

Shepherd parent here with a child in an upper grade. No idea how many are IB vs OOB.