What about cheating at the HS level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a high school, but in a college, they have an "appreciation" dinner right before casting for a music department event. The parents of the kids in the running for the lead are seated with the director of development. I kid you not.

What college has parents involved in that way? Seems absurd and utterly implausible to me.

Parent " get to know you" luncheons with the HOS with Advancement as well as Admissions in attendance happen each year in DC Privates.

This begins in Pre-K

If you thought that you were just being invited in small groups to for you to get to know the HOS, YOU were oblivious.


Those small luncheons or small dinner chats are carefully organized . Hint: invites don't go in alphabetical order and are not a random group.

The AD and Advancement Head cherry pick and plan each meeting and fully brief the HOS before hand so the HOS knows who he/she will be " having the opportunity to get to know" and this begins the oh so polite vetting of who among the new grade level of parents will be:

* future donors for big projects

* tapped for a board seat

* tapped to be a PA Mom or a Grade level class leader to keep other parents in line

* who will run the Auction

Do you think these schools are Democracies ??

Wow. Eight years on the Close with a HHI of over 4 MM, five-figure annual donations, and we never qualified for any “get to know you event” with anyone from development or school administration. Should I feel dissed or relieved?

You were already forking over the cash, so lets go with dissed for the positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, lots of privates around here that start at age 3.

Just FYI, our big 3 accepts 20 kids for preK each year. 20! Can't be brining the school down that much.

+1 Ours too. Better blame those 20 little buggers on the demise of humanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a high school, but in a college, they have an "appreciation" dinner right before casting for a music department event. The parents of the kids in the running for the lead are seated with the director of development. I kid you not.

What college has parents involved in that way? Seems absurd and utterly implausible to me.

Parent " get to know you" luncheons with the HOS with Advancement as well as Admissions in attendance happen each year in DC Privates.

This begins in Pre-K

If you thought that you were just being invited in small groups to for you to get to know the HOS, YOU were oblivious.


Those small luncheons or small dinner chats are carefully organized . Hint: invites don't go in alphabetical order and are not a random group.

The AD and Advancement Head cherry pick and plan each meeting and fully brief the HOS before hand so the HOS knows who he/she will be " having the opportunity to get to know" and this begins the oh so polite vetting of who among the new grade level of parents will be:

* future donors for big projects

* tapped for a board seat

* tapped to be a PA Mom or a Grade level class leader to keep other parents in line

* who will run the Auction

Do you think these schools are Democracies ??

Wow. Eight years on the Close with a HHI of over 4 MM, five-figure annual donations, and we never qualified for any “get to know you event” with anyone from development or school administration. Should I feel dissed or relieved?

You were already forking over the cash, so lets go with dissed for the positions.

But had they asked for more, we would have given more. Too late now, I guess.

[Anonymous]

My upper-elementary student had an assigned class project. She wrote it and did all the illustrations by hand.

Then she turns it in, the teacher sends out a photo of the assembled projects on a table and it's immediately clear that many of them were done by parents.

It's sad that we're taking away our kids' ability to look back at their school projects in 30 years and say proudly, "I did this!" No, mom did it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most people who go to the best universities spent exactly zero dollars on high school tuition and very little on test preparation.

Imagine going through life with so much arrogance that you don't think that having a safety net or margin for error is necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I am. I just think the wealthy at a private school being infuriated at the super-wealthy at a private school shows a lack of self-awareness. It's just a very weird place to draw the line ("THIS is where I draw the line on whether being rich should give you an advantage") when 99% of America is already way behind you.

Such a good point. The "it's okay for me to take advantage of my privilege, but someone more rich/connected exerting their uber-privilege?" pearl-clutching is a bit ironic.

Yep. OP, you need to examine your own privileges before casting shade on everyone else’s.

I fully admit I had privileges. My point was that high schools can be just as complicit as the colleges in this pay to play game for college acceptance.

+1

There's a ton of mediocre rich kids in these "elite" DC area privates. Now you know why.

+1

It is always so amusing to read the "chip on their shoulder" public magnet parents, "donut-hole" parents and "I attended an elite prep school 25 years ago but would never send my kids there" parents passing judgment on the talent of kids and the academic rigor of top DCUM privates. Their resentment comes through as sour grapes. This is an area with an extremely educated population. Do you really think that many or most of the kids in these schools are morons? The number of spots in these schools is small, the number trying to get in is large. There may be an occasional legacy or kid of the president with a slightly lower academic profile, but they have to be good enough to take many of the same classes with academic all-stars. Most of the families are professionals who worked their way to prosperity through intelligence and hard work (IMF, World Bank, medicine, law, etc.). Many immigrant parents; plenty who grew up working or middle class and turned their own Ivy/SLAC education into enough money or savvy to apply for FA. The kids at our Big 3 are almost all very smart and incredibly hard-working. No one is buying their college admissions, and no one needs to.

This. So much this. Getting into a top DCUM private is VERY difficult (full disclosure: my kid does not attend one). I read so many of these outraged posts about how dare parents pay for SAT prep, or tutors, or what not, as BITTER haters. To blanket all private school kids as morons or undeserving (so very untrue), or to say no one should be able to take a test prep course without being labeled privileged and elitist is absurd. Private school haters, just stop. You sound like very jealous and angry people. In no universe are you going to be able to make having a tutor, authorized accomodations, or even (GASP) taking college test prep courses illegal or unallowable.

Difficult at the HS/US level perhaps - esp w/o a hook. Possibly even at the MS level. But the LS? It is all about the parents and the hooks - legacy, full pay, development admit. At least the PreKers aren’t being recruited as athletes. But there has to be someone at the bottom of each class and who better than the well-behaved, even better-connected full-pay lifers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I am. I just think the wealthy at a private school being infuriated at the super-wealthy at a private school shows a lack of self-awareness. It's just a very weird place to draw the line ("THIS is where I draw the line on whether being rich should give you an advantage") when 99% of America is already way behind you.

Such a good point. The "it's okay for me to take advantage of my privilege, but someone more rich/connected exerting their uber-privilege?" pearl-clutching is a bit ironic.

Yep. OP, you need to examine your own privileges before casting shade on everyone else’s.

I fully admit I had privileges. My point was that high schools can be just as complicit as the colleges in this pay to play game for college acceptance.

+1

There's a ton of mediocre rich kids in these "elite" DC area privates. Now you know why.

+1

It is always so amusing to read the "chip on their shoulder" public magnet parents, "donut-hole" parents and "I attended an elite prep school 25 years ago but would never send my kids there" parents passing judgment on the talent of kids and the academic rigor of top DCUM privates. Their resentment comes through as sour grapes. This is an area with an extremely educated population. Do you really think that many or most of the kids in these schools are morons? The number of spots in these schools is small, the number trying to get in is large. There may be an occasional legacy or kid of the president with a slightly lower academic profile, but they have to be good enough to take many of the same classes with academic all-stars. Most of the families are professionals who worked their way to prosperity through intelligence and hard work (IMF, World Bank, medicine, law, etc.). Many immigrant parents; plenty who grew up working or middle class and turned their own Ivy/SLAC education into enough money or savvy to apply for FA. The kids at our Big 3 are almost all very smart and incredibly hard-working. No one is buying their college admissions, and no one needs to.

This. So much this. Getting into a top DCUM private is VERY difficult (full disclosure: my kid does not attend one). I read so many of these outraged posts about how dare parents pay for SAT prep, or tutors, or what not, as BITTER haters. To blanket all private school kids as morons or undeserving (so very untrue), or to say no one should be able to take a test prep course without being labeled privileged and elitist is absurd. Private school haters, just stop. You sound like very jealous and angry people. In no universe are you going to be able to make having a tutor, authorized accomodations, or even (GASP) taking college test prep courses illegal or unallowable.

Difficult at the HS/US level perhaps - esp w/o a hook. Possibly even at the MS level. But the LS? It is all about the parents and the hooks - legacy, full pay, development admit. At least the PreKers aren’t being recruited as athletes. But there has to be someone at the bottom of each class and who better than the well-behaved, even better-connected full-pay lifers?

This answer is totally nonsensical. Just go to bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think I am. I just think the wealthy at a private school being infuriated at the super-wealthy at a private school shows a lack of self-awareness. It's just a very weird place to draw the line ("THIS is where I draw the line on whether being rich should give you an advantage") when 99% of America is already way behind you.

Such a good point. The "it's okay for me to take advantage of my privilege, but someone more rich/connected exerting their uber-privilege?" pearl-clutching is a bit ironic.

Yep. OP, you need to examine your own privileges before casting shade on everyone else’s.

I fully admit I had privileges. My point was that high schools can be just as complicit as the colleges in this pay to play game for college acceptance.

+1

There's a ton of mediocre rich kids in these "elite" DC area privates. Now you know why.

+1

It is always so amusing to read the "chip on their shoulder" public magnet parents, "donut-hole" parents and "I attended an elite prep school 25 years ago but would never send my kids there" parents passing judgment on the talent of kids and the academic rigor of top DCUM privates. Their resentment comes through as sour grapes. This is an area with an extremely educated population. Do you really think that many or most of the kids in these schools are morons? The number of spots in these schools is small, the number trying to get in is large. There may be an occasional legacy or kid of the president with a slightly lower academic profile, but they have to be good enough to take many of the same classes with academic all-stars. Most of the families are professionals who worked their way to prosperity through intelligence and hard work (IMF, World Bank, medicine, law, etc.). Many immigrant parents; plenty who grew up working or middle class and turned their own Ivy/SLAC education into enough money or savvy to apply for FA. The kids at our Big 3 are almost all very smart and incredibly hard-working. No one is buying their college admissions, and no one needs to.

This. So much this. Getting into a top DCUM private is VERY difficult (full disclosure: my kid does not attend one). I read so many of these outraged posts about how dare parents pay for SAT prep, or tutors, or what not, as BITTER haters. To blanket all private school kids as morons or undeserving (so very untrue), or to say no one should be able to take a test prep course without being labeled privileged and elitist is absurd. Private school haters, just stop. You sound like very jealous and angry people. In no universe are you going to be able to make having a tutor, authorized accomodations, or even (GASP) taking college test prep courses illegal or unallowable.

Difficult at the HS/US level perhaps - esp w/o a hook. Possibly even at the MS level. But the LS? It is all about the parents and the hooks - legacy, full pay, development admit. At least the PreKers aren’t being recruited as athletes. But there has to be someone at the bottom of each class and who better than the well-behaved, even better-connected full-pay lifers?

This answer is totally nonsensical. Just go to bed.

Are you saying admission at K is difficult as in academically competitive as it is for US? How so?

[Anonymous]

There is no comparison to be made and thus the post is nonsensical. Some kids are admitted at K, some later, and what? Should they kick out the lifer kids in 9th? This is how a K-12 school works. Period. That is the model. Is it fair? No. Can I afford to send my child to any college? Probably not. Does that mean that opportunity should not exist for anyone? Absolutely not. I am not sure what is confusing here.

[Anonymous]

There is an LLS competition . It raises money for leukemia and lymphoma society.

It a big deal to win. The team that win every year has parents that donate $10's of thousands of $$$ to make it look like their kids raised $300,000 for cancer research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My upper-elementary student had an assigned class project. She wrote it and did all the illustrations by hand.

Then she turns it in, the teacher sends out a photo of the assembled projects on a table and it's immediately clear that many of them were done by parents.

It's sad that we're taking away our kids' ability to look back at their school projects in 30 years and say proudly, "I did this!" No, mom did it.

It’s also possible your kid is the dumbest kid in the class. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not a high school, but in a college, they have an "appreciation" dinner right before casting for a music department event. The parents of the kids in the running for the lead are seated with the director of development. I kid you not.

What college has parents involved in that way? Seems absurd and utterly implausible to me.

Parent " get to know you" luncheons with the HOS with Advancement as well as Admissions in attendance happen each year in DC Privates.

This begins in Pre-K

If you thought that you were just being invited in small groups to for you to get to know the HOS, YOU were oblivious.


Those small luncheons or small dinner chats are carefully organized . Hint: invites don't go in alphabetical order and are not a random group.

The AD and Advancement Head cherry pick and plan each meeting and fully brief the HOS before hand so the HOS knows who he/she will be " having the opportunity to get to know" and this begins the oh so polite vetting of who among the new grade level of parents will be:

* future donors for big projects

* tapped for a board seat

* tapped to be a PA Mom or a Grade level class leader to keep other parents in line

* who will run the Auction

Do you think these schools are Democracies ??

I don’t think three of the four things listed is anything you actually want. I certainly wouldn’t want to be a room parent or to run the auction. Nor do I want to be constantly badgered to donate. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t have any answers on the question of unfair advantages but I cringe a little at the gray area that seems to be growing around this debate.

Is getting your kid a tutor akin to hiring someone to take the SAT on your kids’ behalf? Because the OP’s argument seems to be implying that by lumping everything into the “unfair advantage” category.

Don’t get me wrong, there are always inherent advantages that come with “privilege.” It has been that way since the beginning of time. I think the problem is actually that we allowed any of this to be seen as a meritocracy in a lot of ways. But I wonder when the slippery slope comes in? My kid gets lots of “advantages” in that I read to each of them every night, we eat dinner as a family, and I got off the ladder in my job to take a position with much more flexibility. Those are all advantages to my kids, for sure. Also, we are a while family who are third generation college graduates who send our kids to private school. We generally don’t rely on public transportation and have a yard to play in. All of that is a direct result of our privilege. Is that wrong? It certainly feels unfair if you are sitting in public housing trying to figure a way out.

I don’t have an answer. I know I don’t want to end up saying that all these actions are indistinguishable. There is certainly a difference between what went on in the cheating scandal and what most of us do on behalf of our kids. At the same time, I think we have to be careful that we don’t walk down a road that leads us to saying that any time dedicated or effort made on behalf of our kids is unfair.

Just food for thought.

Congrats. You get the award for most absurd rationalization. Having a yard and reading to your kids is not remotely comparable to the advantages the wealthy get by dint of being legacies, or from spending six figures on tutors/test prep, or from donating to universities as your child applies for admission, or by having your kid try to get in because they played some silly patrician sport like fencing.

Amen. And puke city.

Fencing. Riding. Hilarious.

Yeah a lot dumber than say lacrosse, crew or tennis. All of which skew heavily rich and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no comparison to be made and thus the post is nonsensical. Some kids are admitted at K, some later, and what? Should they kick out the lifer kids in 9th? This is how a K-12 school works. Period. That is the model. Is it fair? No. Can I afford to send my child to any college? Probably not. Does that mean that opportunity should not exist for anyone? Absolutely not. I am not sure what is confusing here.

Agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well when about 1/3 to 1/2 of every private seems to have kids on accommodations, they yes there is cheating going on.

how is extended time cheating exactly in a kid with a documented need for it by a Neuropsychologist for ADHD is executive functioning issues? Please explain!