Why do some care about rules about gay people but ignore rule about shrimp, rape, and stoning women?

Anonymous
I don't believe the OP is asking this "sincerely" as he said in his post. I think this is the same OP that brings shrimp into any discussion that is even remotely relevant.

But for everyone else:
1. Shrimp. God never says it's a "sin." He says don't eat it. The Jews lived in the desert with no refrigeration. Makes perfect sense. (Then see Acts 9, where God declares all food "clean," and Peter totally gets the analogy that God loves everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike, not just Jews. It's the same as if I told my son, don't hit your sister (it's wrong) and don't cross the street without looking both ways (it's a bad idea because you might get hurt).
2. Homosexuality. The "Jesus didn't mention it" overlooks that in Christianity, Christ is the Word, so that if it's in the Bible it's from Christ, whether it's in red letters or quote marks or whatever. Also, Chris uniformly condemns "fornication," and He has a Jewish audience, who know that "fornication" includes homosexuality, and even things spelled out like "don't have sex with your aunt." And unlike the stupid shrimp thing, which is EXPLICITLY done away with in the New Testament, the condemnation of homosexuality is repeated, in exactly as many references, in the New Testament, as is all forms of fornication.
3. Rapists have to marry their victims. If you give it some thought, this is meant as a deterrent. "It was consensual" isn't a defense, because marriage is prescribed for that, as well. This is a law of protection for women in Leviticus. You might think it sounds icky today, but at least trying to understand the intent of this item is really helpful. And understanding this from the point of the history of that culture and time would be helpful, too, as a woman who had been defiled because unmarriable, and after her father dies, she has no protection. And if you're inclined to do a little raping on the weekend, you would understand you'd end up attached to someone and having to provide for her welfare FOREVER.
4. Killing adulteresses. Yeah, it seems harsh. You guys all hate Christianity, but you seem to not understand that the Christian era is what brought an end to things like this and has made humanity throughout more, well, humane. The law handed down by Moses from the LORD began like this, "Root out the evil from among you." Adultery is an evil. It has victims. And the Jews are presented in the Old Testament as the people through whom the Messiah was brought. Without them, we have no Jesus. Without Jesus, you die in your sins. Which is a really bad thing to do. God set apart the Jews from the surrounding populations, which committed child sacrifice, temple prostitution, raping (without marrying anyone), pillaging, murdering, worshiping statues, all that. God's point was, "Don't be like them. I'm using you to redeem all mankind." So there was to be no tolerance of things like that. And that punishment should give US cause to see how bad it really is. And incidentally, in John 8 in the New Testament, when Jesus tells everyone who didn't sin to go ahead and throw stones at a woman caught in adultery, He was showing that God would now do the judging, and we're supposed to take care of our own sins, by trusting in Christ. And this was because Christ HAD NOW COME INTO THE WORLD. He made His own testimony about Himself, and he no longer needed to protect the people through whom He came.

And why don't Christians follow this? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT JEWISH. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the Levitical laws were given to the Jews. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to also see that the Bible also still considers that there is such a thing as sin. It even spells them out.

And for the pick-and-choose poster, please save that argument for until after you've read Romans and Hebrews all the way through so that you can understand how the Old Testament and New Testament stand side-by-side and no one is picking or choosing anything.
Anonymous
So don't follow anything in the old testament if you're not Jewish. It's only meant for Jews.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I don't eat shellfish.

Why didn't you put the word "Christian" in your post title, since you clearly were not thinking about Jews? (BTW, kosher observant Jews vary in their positions on gays) Even though the books you reference were given to US, are written in a language most of y'all don't speak, etc, etc.

#culturalappropriation


I recognize there are some Jews who don't eat shellfish, don't cut their hair/beards etc.

Yes, this post is about Christians. As to why, I backspaced it to fit my whole title in..


You wrote a long OP that did not mention Jews, and mentioned Christianity, but did not say you were specifically asking Christians.

I understand you are interested in exploring the issue of hypocrisy among Christians, but I do find the tendency to "disappear" Jews in these discussions frustrating. The entire issue is rooted in the (arguably selective) early Christian project of deemphasizing Jewish religious law, of dejudaizing Christianity while retaining those aspects of the Hebrew scriptures that were useful to Christians. I think by ignoring that project, and its relationship to Christian 'supercessionism' you can't get a full picture of these issues in Christianity.


So how should the conversation go differently?


I would have put in the OP an acknowledgement that many Jews do follow the laws of the Torah (please don't call it the "old testament" outside a specifically Christian place, which AFAICT DCUM is not) and asked why Christian who generally do not follow those laws (with whatever examples you want) do follow this one, or something to that effect.

Your way of putting it effectively put out of mind the people descended (religiously and physically) from the very people discussed in the Hebrew bible.


yes, good point. I am interested in why Christians in particular only follow some of these laws. Although I suppose I could ask the same question of extremely conservative Jews who do not eat shrimp, do not cut their hair/beards but also do not want rapists to marry their victims or want non-virgin brides to be stoned to death


One of Jesus’ central messages was that simply following dietary, clothing, and other rules wasn’t the way to heaven. This didn’t sit well with the religious leadership at the time. So the gospel of Matthew records this:

Matthew 22:34
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together.
35 One of them, an expert in the Law, tested him with this question:
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’
38 This is the first and greatest commandment.
39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’
40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

There’s also this from Matthew 15:11
What goes into someone's mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.

Many Christians take these (and other passages) as basically saying that Jesus doesn’t insist on following Old Testament rules and is mostly about love for your neighbor and your enemy (which is the new part). There’s a fundie on DCUM who disagrees, but I’ll say right now that s/he is a minority.

For the New Testament re homosexuality, you have to wait until Paul’s letters. Jesus is not on record as having spoken about homosexuality. Re Paul, first, he obviously wasn’t Jesus. Second, many put his writings into the context of pastoral letters to growing communities, which makes them very time-specific. *Ducks for the incoming screeds from the resident fundie, who again, is in a minority.*
Anonymous
Because it's easy to judge when something doesn't apply to you.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Gay Christian here. Being Gay is not a sin, Sins are choices we make in life. Being Gay is not a choice its the way we are born, therefore not a sin. OP i have a male friend who has been divorced twice and sleeps with women outside of marriage, eats bacon, shrimp etc. BUT he voted against my right to civil marriage when it was on the ballot. It is hypocrisy, i think the main reason is because people don't understand it. Theyre not Gay so they think its a choice. Ignorance at its finest.


I would think it would be tough to stay friends with that person
we are no longer friends
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Christians are bound by NEW TESTAMENT LAW, not OLD TESTAMENT.

Shellfish, stoning, and shrimp laws are OT laws.

Homosexuality is NT law.

Jesus also said “he who is without sin cast the first stone” to people who wanted to stone an adulteress.

We follow the Law of Christ. That’s why we don’t follow all laws in the Bible anymore. It’s not picking and choosing though, it’s based on which law we are bound to.


OK, I am not an expert. What are all the places in the new testament that talk about homosexuality?



Romans 1:6-8, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:can someone please tell me where the new testament talks about homosexuality.


Romans 1:6-8, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Christians are bound by NEW TESTAMENT LAW, not OLD TESTAMENT.

Shellfish, stoning, and shrimp laws are OT laws.

Homosexuality is NT law.

Jesus also said “he who is without sin cast the first stone” to people who wanted to stone an adulteress.

We follow the Law of Christ. That’s why we don’t follow all laws in the Bible anymore. It’s not picking and choosing though, it’s based on which law we are bound to.


OK, I am not an expert. What are all the places in the new testament that talk about homosexuality?


This is false, Jesus never said homosexuality was a sin.


Romans 1:6-8, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

NT Law isn’t limited to only what Christ said. Because the Bible is inspired, the writings of the disciples and other teachers are fully God’s Word and approved by Him.
Anonymous
Also, for those who practice Judaism, they still follow OT dietary laws. I know Jewish people who are very strict about what they eat. Because they dont believe Jesus came and died on the cross, they believe that they still are bound by OT Law.

So for them, no shrimp
But for those who believe in the New Testament, yes shrimp

Yay!!
Anonymous
Op here. My post was sincere. If the answer is that gays are truly going to hell, then I'm not sure if Christianity is for me

I think there are good reasons to think that the answer to that question is no though
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Op here. My post was sincere. If the answer is that gays are truly going to hell, then I'm not sure if Christianity is for me

I think there are good reasons to think that the answer to that question is no though


The answer is never “x is going to hell.” You have misunderstood the fundamental components of Christianity and are trying to ask a specific question with no foundation.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Christians are bound by NEW TESTAMENT LAW, not OLD TESTAMENT.

Shellfish, stoning, and shrimp laws are OT laws.

Homosexuality is NT law.

Jesus also said “he who is without sin cast the first stone” to people who wanted to stone an adulteress.

We follow the Law of Christ. That’s why we don’t follow all laws in the Bible anymore. It’s not picking and choosing though, it’s based on which law we are bound to.


OK, I am not an expert. What are all the places in the new testament that talk about homosexuality?


This is false, Jesus never said homosexuality was a sin.


Romans 1:6-8, 1 Timothy 1:8-11, and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

NT Law isn’t limited to only what Christ said. Because the Bible is inspired, the writings of the disciples and other teachers are fully God’s Word and approved by Him.


I prefer Jesus's commandments to Roman, Timothy and Corinthians. There are in direct opposition to each other. You have to pick one... I pick Jesus.

Also, I don't see divorced people being discriminated against. So why all the hate for gay people.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op here. My post was sincere. If the answer is that gays are truly going to hell, then I'm not sure if Christianity is for me

I think there are good reasons to think that the answer to that question is no though


The answer is never “x is going to hell.” You have misunderstood the fundamental components of Christianity and are trying to ask a specific question with no foundation.


Yes, often gay people and Jews are told they will go to hell.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I don't believe the OP is asking this "sincerely" as he said in his post. I think this is the same OP that brings shrimp into any discussion that is even remotely relevant.

But for everyone else:
1. Shrimp. God never says it's a "sin." He says don't eat it. The Jews lived in the desert with no refrigeration. Makes perfect sense. (Then see Acts 9, where God declares all food "clean," and Peter totally gets the analogy that God loves everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike, not just Jews. It's the same as if I told my son, don't hit your sister (it's wrong) and don't cross the street without looking both ways (it's a bad idea because you might get hurt).


There are sins between man and man, and sins between man and G-d. IE ritual sins. The Hebrew bible is clear that ritual sins are important (see so many laws in the 5 books of Moses) There are mixed indications in prophets as to their importance relative to the sins between man and man - the famous section of Isaiah about fasting, on the one hand, but lots of prophets complaining about ritual violations.

The book of Acts (you mean 10, not 9, right?) is an odd vision, not clear to me at least that its an indication the dietary laws are revoked, or were never about sin. In any case, the book of Acts is not cannon in Judaism.

Note also, many of the dietary laws have nothing to do with health. There is no health reason not to eat the calf and its mother's milk together, nor to avoid the sciaitic nerve.

As for the laws claimed to be about health, the nations that lived alongside Israel did not follow them, and there is nothing in the historical record indicating they had poor health as a result. Certainly its not hard to cook pork, for example and the dangers of infection are more than offset by the value of the protein source. The dietary laws are NOT about hygiene, but about creating a bond between the children of Israel and their G-d, a bond expressed in daily living, that sets them off from the nations.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op here. My post was sincere. If the answer is that gays are truly going to hell, then I'm not sure if Christianity is for me

I think there are good reasons to think that the answer to that question is no though


The answer is never “x is going to hell.” You have misunderstood the fundamental components of Christianity and are trying to ask a specific question with no foundation.


Yes, often gay people and Jews are told they will go to hell.


I am a Jew and straight, and if I have just cut you off in my car, and you say "go to hell" I would understand. I say "go to hell" at people who drive recklessly, and I don't actually know their religion or sexual orientation.
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