Sad commentary on the American way of life

[Anonymous]

I like the commentary on acceptable square footage. I shared a room with 2 sisters for the longest time. Nowadays people expect each kid to have their own poetry barn kids decorated bedroom. And we weren't poor. In fact, we went to private school.

Even well off families in NYC live in studios or one bedrooms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy the false bill of goods that Americans would be financially secure if they just skipped designer purses. Republicans have been selling that BS for decades. It’s not true. It’s housing, daycare and healthcare...along with student loan debt.

Unions get workers a fair deal and real security. Bring em back.

And I’m not speaking from envy. My DH and I have good jobs and fight lifestyle inflation. But we’re not willfully blind.

Tucked C is a jerk but his rant had a point. Reform capitalism or watch a socialist tide continue to rise. I’d prefer reformed capitalism myself.

Designer purses are upwards of $3k and the latest iPhone is $1k. $4k actually does go a long way when you live paycheck to paycheck.

Having said that, I agree that wages have stagnated and housing is expensive. But a single, childless low-wage earner can live with roommates. A dual income childless couple can live quite well.

No one living paycheck to paycheck is buying a designer purse; they buy a knockoff and tell everyone they bought the real thing.

A new iphone is $1k, but everyone just pays them month to month at $20/month; sure they can probably forgo that and save it, but then it will be eaten up by some medical bill and they will probably still be in debt and stuck with a balky old phone (and to be clear, I keep my phones for ever and am still on an iPhone 6 and we lived with roommates as a couple until we had kids).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.

Look at the numbers for retail. People are spending more than ever, or do you just think this is fake news?

+1 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending.

One designer bag or a few cups of starbucks coffee may not break your bank account, but when you are living hand to mouth, with no savings, those everyday trips to starbucks and $500 designer bags could count towards your savings. It all adds ups.

I grew up up lower income. My parents never had a balance on their credit card. They lived pretty frugally and had enough in emergency savings to handle paying for unexpected medical costs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy the false bill of goods that Americans would be financially secure if they just skipped designer purses. Republicans have been selling that BS for decades. It’s not true. It’s housing, daycare and healthcare...along with student loan debt.

Unions get workers a fair deal and real security. Bring em back.

And I’m not speaking from envy. My DH and I have good jobs and fight lifestyle inflation. But we’re not willfully blind.

Tucked C is a jerk but his rant had a point. Reform capitalism or watch a socialist tide continue to rise. I’d prefer reformed capitalism myself.

Designer purses are upwards of $3k and the latest iPhone is $1k. $4k actually does go a long way when you live paycheck to paycheck.

Having said that, I agree that wages have stagnated and housing is expensive. But a single, childless low-wage earner can live with roommates. A dual income childless couple can live quite well.

No one living paycheck to paycheck is buying a designer purse; they buy a knockoff and tell everyone they bought the real thing.

A new iphone is $1k, but everyone just pays them month to month at $20/month; sure they can probably forgo that and save it, but then it will be eaten up by some medical bill and they will probably still be in debt and stuck with a balky old phone (and to be clear, I keep my phones for ever and am still on an iPhone 6 and we lived with roommates as a couple until we had kids).

My friend lives paycheck to paycheck and has high credit card debt. She bought an $1800 designer bag. She told me she thought about returning it but since it's sold out she's keeping it.

[Anonymous]

My friend goes nuts every Christmas on her kids, spouse, parents, inlaws, siblings. Absolutely nuts.

Now she has told me she's doing a "no spend" January.

Uh, how about you just return half the $hit you bought at Christmas? Sounds easier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.

Look at the numbers for retail. People are spending more than ever, or do you just think this is fake news?

+1 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending.

One designer bag or a few cups of starbucks coffee may not break your bank account, but when you are living hand to mouth, with no savings, those everyday trips to starbucks and $500 designer bags could count towards your savings. It all adds ups.

I grew up up lower income. My parents never had a balance on their credit card. They lived pretty frugally and had enough in emergency savings to handle paying for unexpected medical costs.

And how much have medical costs gone up since your childhood?

[Anonymous]

I appreciate the pp’s comment that it is insulting to see well-paid people willingly put themselves in a debt-ridden lifestyle. I could not agree more. I just don’t understand or have any sympathy for all the excuses when the complaints about lifestyle/savings come from the top 20% (or worse top 10%) of All wage earners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.

Look at the numbers for retail. People are spending more than ever, or do you just think this is fake news?

+1 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending.

One designer bag or a few cups of starbucks coffee may not break your bank account, but when you are living hand to mouth, with no savings, those everyday trips to starbucks and $500 designer bags could count towards your savings. It all adds ups.

I grew up up lower income. My parents never had a balance on their credit card. They lived pretty frugally and had enough in emergency savings to handle paying for unexpected medical costs.

And how much have medical costs gone up since your childhood?

A lot, and I probably know that better than you since I have had private insurance for 20 years.

However, the article states that most people don't have $1000 to cover emergencies. My lowish income parents had more than $1000 saved for emergencies. All of my siblings live somewhat frugally. We all save first, then spend what's leftover, even my sister with no college degree who makes $40K a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I like the commentary on acceptable square footage. I shared a room with 2 sisters for the longest time. Nowadays people expect each kid to have their own poetry barn kids decorated bedroom. And we weren't poor. In fact, we went to private school.

Even well off families in NYC live in studios or one bedrooms.

This! Half of these families feel like they need a huge mortgage because each of their kids MUST have their own bedroom, plus a playroom, basement, yard, an office, a guest room, etc. These aren't needs as long as you have a sufficient roof over your head!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the commentary on acceptable square footage. I shared a room with 2 sisters for the longest time. Nowadays people expect each kid to have their own poetry barn kids decorated bedroom. And we weren't poor. In fact, we went to private school.

Even well off families in NYC live in studios or one bedrooms.

This! Half of these families feel like they need a huge mortgage because each of their kids MUST have their own bedroom, plus a playroom, basement, yard, an office, a guest room, etc. These aren't needs as long as you have a sufficient roof over your head!

Eh, maybe but I know DS friends don’t like to come over b/c we don’t have a yard or basement in our tiny townhouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the commentary on acceptable square footage. I shared a room with 2 sisters for the longest time. Nowadays people expect each kid to have their own poetry barn kids decorated bedroom. And we weren't poor. In fact, we went to private school.

Even well off families in NYC live in studios or one bedrooms.

This! Half of these families feel like they need a huge mortgage because each of their kids MUST have their own bedroom, plus a playroom, basement, yard, an office, a guest room, etc. These aren't needs as long as you have a sufficient roof over your head!

Eh, maybe but I know DS friends don’t like to come over b/c we don’t have a yard or basement in our tiny townhouse.

So you are letting a child's opinion influence your financial decisions? This is a great example of the problem with American spending right now...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I like the commentary on acceptable square footage. I shared a room with 2 sisters for the longest time. Nowadays people expect each kid to have their own poetry barn kids decorated bedroom. And we weren't poor. In fact, we went to private school.

Even well off families in NYC live in studios or one bedrooms.

This! Half of these families feel like they need a huge mortgage because each of their kids MUST have their own bedroom, plus a playroom, basement, yard, an office, a guest room, etc. These aren't needs as long as you have a sufficient roof over your head!

It’s a very American ideal. I think there’s going to be a backlash against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.

YES!!! I couldn't agree more. It is the BASIC necessities that eat up our income: rent or mortgages, health care costs (mine is $1500/mo), child care, higher education, and retirement savings.

Just think: a generation ago, when baby boomers were young professionals, companies PAID for employee retirement. they PAID for health care. rent/mortgages were in-line with incomes.

Gas, clothes and food were more expensive but those were things you could control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here and thinking a lot about the issues in this thread. Does anyone else think that the newer rejection of things in favor of experiences is adding to this overspending problem?

When it becomes imperative to go out to the newest expensive restaurant or to go to the most exclusive vacation, isn’t that type of lifestyle more constantly expensive than splurging on a fancy car or handbag? At least once you have the things, that itch is scratched, but the need to go to Minibar and Pineapples and Pearls and Komi etc. never ends.

What is happening is these people with the victim mentality are not thinking. I did not get a passport until I was an adult. I did not get my first car until I bought one with my own money, I was 19. I did not step foot in a plane until i was an adult with a job and I had a business trip. You know where we did family vacations? Anywhere where we could drive and stay with another family member for free. We had ONE car growing up, my parents shared it, my mom dropped my dad off at metro each and every day and then picked him up. That car was a Honda Accord and make it to 250K miles. We lived in a 3BR home, I shared a room with my sister and my brother had his own. We had ONE TV in the house. We had old shag carpet. I never experienced a kitchen remodel, or a bathroom remodel, that simply never happened. We were SOLIDLY middle class and we were a completely NORMAL family and many people lived like us. Going out to dinner or take out simply did not happen. We would go to the Raddison and do Easter buffet brunch, that was our one big outing. When we went on road trips, mom busted out peanut butter and banana sandwiches, we did not even do fast food. There was not a huge variation in income and lifestyle in our community (alexandria). Today if you lived like that, people would be clutching their pearls and would be declaring poverty.

Guess what? My parents have since retired and live modestly still.

Good for you. You do realize that today, one medical catastrophe could wipe out all of your hard work.

I'd like to add that what is considered acceptable square footage and amenities today has contributed to the cost of housing. We hope to retire soon, but live in the same home in Vienna that we moved into in the mid-80's, raised our children in, and will live in until we can't do the stairs. It's a modest house <2000 sq ft on a tiny lot, unfinished basement, some updates, but would definitely be not be considered DCUM-worthy. Probably worth $680-700K (strictly because of location). But it's given us a lot of financial freedom and the ability to live mortgage free for 20 years on one income. Most of our peers, socio-economically speaking, live in homes 2-3 times as large and will carry mortgages into their 60's. While impressive, I wouldn't trade my little shack for their mini-mansions. Sometimes we rent one at the beach for a week though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Do you guys know how much housing and childcare cost around here?

I'm the person who posted in the furlough thread about feeling stupid for. buying 3 pieces of furniture. For context, my living room has had literally only seating i have scavenged from the curb for free for the last 2.5 years. Finally I got tired of living off other people's trash and spent $300 on a used coffee table and 2 chairs. Replacing the trash couch is still too expensive, that will wait. And i still don't have curtains, just cheap blinds.

Meanwhile, I have spent $1500/month on day care during this period, and until I got a federal job this spring i was spending $900/month for family health insurance. But you really think it's consumerism that holds people back from saving? How deeply out of touch and moralistic.



YES!!! I couldn't agree more. It is the BASIC necessities that eat up our income: rent or mortgages, health care costs (mine is $1500/mo), child care, higher education, and retirement savings.

Just think: a generation ago, when baby boomers were young professionals, companies PAID for employee retirement. they PAID for health care. rent/mortgages were in-line with incomes.

Gas, clothes and food were more expensive but those were things you could control.

I know plenty of boomers who don't have pensions paid for by companies (granted I am a 60 year old boomer so a "younger" boomer). I also think you have to realize that health care was much more basic back then. There was no physical therapy for every sprain, no MRIs, no chemotherapy, etc., etc. The range of therapies that exist now is incredible (and great FWIW), but expensive.