Sela in the Post

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would fully support a Finnish immersion school. Finnish is a very difficult language - and the Finnish educational model is arguably the best or one of the best in the world. The anti-Sela harpies come out every time Sela receives any news whatsoever, e.g., being ranked as a four star school or being ranked tier 1. If you don’t want to send your kid there, don’t. I don’t particularly like my tax dollars being spent at several far less excelling DCPS or charter schools, or subsidizing rich families with pre-k 3. However, there is plenty utility in learning any difficult language, particularly if you want school to be rigorous and interesting, which we know you don’t think poor children or children of color deserve.

I agree here. I think many are complaining that taxpayer funds are going to fund Hebrew (admittedly a “random” language choice for DC), but dc also finds a ton of shitty schools. Sela is a strong school (historically tier 1 except for this year because they have a very small fifth grade class skewing the scores and bc it’s the first year they did parcc testing). So it’s not like DC is funding a random language immersion that is poorly ranked. If dc wants to fund a strong immersion school -regardless of what language- so that more strong immersion schools are offered in DC than I strongly support that. DCUM can’t complain on one hand that there aren’t enough strong charters in DC then also complain that DC shouldn’t fund an existing strong charter because its Hebrew.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would fully support a Finnish immersion school. Finnish is a very difficult language - and the Finnish educational model is arguably the best or one of the best in the world. The anti-Sela harpies come out every time Sela receives any news whatsoever, e.g., being ranked as a four star school or being ranked tier 1. If you don’t want to send your kid there, don’t. I don’t particularly like my tax dollars being spent at several far less excelling DCPS or charter schools, or subsidizing rich families with pre-k 3. However, there is plenty utility in learning any difficult language, particularly if you want school to be rigorous and interesting, which we know you don’t think poor children or children of color deserve.

I agree here. I think many are complaining that taxpayer funds are going to fund Hebrew (admittedly a “random” language choice for DC), but dc also finds a ton of shitty schools. Sela is a strong school (historically tier 1 except for this year because they have a very small fifth grade class skewing the scores and bc it’s the first year they did parcc testing). So it’s not like DC is funding a random language immersion that is poorly ranked. If dc wants to fund a strong immersion school -regardless of what language- so that more strong immersion schools are offered in DC than I strongly support that. DCUM can’t complain on one hand that there aren’t enough strong charters in DC then also complain that DC shouldn’t fund an existing strong charter because its Hebrew.

Not the first year Sela students have taken PARCC; because of small cohort size, 2017-18 was first year that there were enough students for the scores to be publicly reported. Any 3rd grader in DC has to take PARCC, and Sela has had 3rd graders for a while.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Wow, some really ignorant posters on here. Learning any foreign language at a young age improves cognitive development. It makes future language learning much easier. Hebrew is a very difficult language to learn at older ages, unlike Spanish and French. And Hebrew is a gateway language to Arabic. If there were an Arabic charter school in DC then great - but there's not.

And yes, everyone in Israel speaks English so do the vast majority of French, Spanish, etc.

You sound like a defensive Sela parent?

In any case why not just learn Arabic which is spoken by far more people and amongst the speakers of Arabic English is spoken by relatively few folks. And surely fluency in Arabic is far more practical if you are looking for a job.

FWIW I've traveled in Spain, France and Israel and English is far more widely spoken in Israel and far better than it is in Spain or France. I don't think I encountered a single native Israeli who didn't speak fluent English and don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Spain as English isn't well spoken outside of the tourism trade.

And that’s crazy. The level of English spoken in Western Europe is high - especially in France. Plenty of Israelis have poor English - not, of course, in the “tourist trade.”

I was actually shocked by the level of English spoken by many Israelis. Israel wishes to promote Hebrew first and foremost which is fine but isolationist of them. Many do not learn English in school or not well. I didn’t travel there as a tourist so I may have met a different group than others commenting. So, my assumption is that Sela is somewhat tied to this project of Hebrew language revival but at what cost?

Is it isolation of Italians to speak Italian? Maltese to speak Maltese? Finns to speak Finnish? Your bias is showing. Hebrew is officially revived. - and has been for 100+ years. I guess the cost is a strong public school option for a diverse cross-section of DC students...sounds like a win-win.

The pro Sela crowd on here is conflating all sorts of arguments.

There is no problem with any country or ethnic or religious group speaking its own language. And also speaking, or not speaking, English.

The problem is when DCPS funds a dual language immersion program in a niche language that in and of itself is of almost no practical value to its students.

It is of no consequence or relevance that Hebrew has been officially revived - what matters is whether speaking Hebrew confers some educational advantage and improved career prospects to its students and whether public monies should therefore be spent on it.

And immersion programs are also of great value educationally.

But the fact that immersion programs are of great value does not mean it follows that every language should be offered. The pro Sela folks on here with a straight face would argue that DCPS should fund a dual language English/Maltese program (this would actually make some narrative sense since Maltese is a semitic language)? Or a dual language English/Finnish program? How about a dual language Klingon/English program?

If you feel strongly that your kids should speak Hebrew then great - teach them Hebrew yourself or find a program through a local synagogue or private school. Same is true of lots of other languages.

But you need to have stronger arguments than anyone has offered in this thread to justify spending scarce public money to educate kids in a language that in all likelihood they will never have any practical use for.

The worst of it is that the time that some in the article said spent on subject; IF, they are not scoring highly on PARCC or some other assessment that valuable time at this age should be spent on remediation. By middle school they will behind and never catch up. If you are advanced or proficient sure go ahead and learn Hebrew or any other language but do not market it to a population who deserves more. In a few years they won't remember how to speak Hebrew just some phrases! The low reading of some students in DCPS school is shocking.

Funny but why all the SELA boosters playing the race card and I bet not of you all are black, WP pictures only AA children why is that? What race are the teachers? Interesting, we're not playing the race card, we are saying AA title 1 low-income children deserve better so says a black mothers!

[Anonymous]

OK, here's the thing. I just don't believe that the founders/funders of this school have a wholesome desire for brains to be generically stimulated intellectually through language. Nope.

The founder went to Israel, got pregnant, thought how is my child going to be raised with Hebrew outside of Israel? I know, I'll get a lot of support and funding to create a school in DC where I would like to live. The model is there already. It can be a public school. Look into the network a bit more -- it is all about public provision of Hebrew school (what used to be a private endeavor, because, it was clearly religious). Concerns: not being fully transparent about your motives, and, mixing religion with public education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would fully support a Finnish immersion school. Finnish is a very difficult language - and the Finnish educational model is arguably the best or one of the best in the world. The anti-Sela harpies come out every time Sela receives any news whatsoever, e.g., being ranked as a four star school or being ranked tier 1. If you don’t want to send your kid there, don’t. I don’t particularly like my tax dollars being spent at several far less excelling DCPS or charter schools, or subsidizing rich families with pre-k 3. However, there is plenty utility in learning any difficult language, particularly if you want school to be rigorous and interesting, which we know you don’t think poor children or children of color deserve.

I agree here. I think many are complaining that taxpayer funds are going to fund Hebrew (admittedly a “random” language choice for DC), but dc also finds a ton of shitty schools. Sela is a strong school (historically tier 1 except for this year because they have a very small fifth grade class skewing the scores and bc it’s the first year they did parcc testing). So it’s not like DC is funding a random language immersion that is poorly ranked. If dc wants to fund a strong immersion school -regardless of what language- so that more strong immersion schools are offered in DC than I strongly support that. DCUM can’t complain on one hand that there aren’t enough strong charters in DC then also complain that DC shouldn’t fund an existing strong charter because its Hebrew.

Hmmmm bet you all wouldn't be lining up to get your kids in an African focused school teaching a Nigerian language with all black teachers now would you?

[Anonymous]

When you have a school teaching "Israel Studies" you ALWAYS must ask what are their politics. And then decide for yourself if you agree and want your child to go there. There is no non-political support to Israel, whether you agree or not. It shouldn't be this hard to find out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Wow, some really ignorant posters on here. Learning any foreign language at a young age improves cognitive development. It makes future language learning much easier. Hebrew is a very difficult language to learn at older ages, unlike Spanish and French. And Hebrew is a gateway language to Arabic. If there were an Arabic charter school in DC then great - but there's not.

And yes, everyone in Israel speaks English so do the vast majority of French, Spanish, etc.

You sound like a defensive Sela parent?

In any case why not just learn Arabic which is spoken by far more people and amongst the speakers of Arabic English is spoken by relatively few folks. And surely fluency in Arabic is far more practical if you are looking for a job.

FWIW I've traveled in Spain, France and Israel and English is far more widely spoken in Israel and far better than it is in Spain or France. I don't think I encountered a single native Israeli who didn't speak fluent English and don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Spain as English isn't well spoken outside of the tourism trade.

And that’s crazy. The level of English spoken in Western Europe is high - especially in France. Plenty of Israelis have poor English - not, of course, in the “tourist trade.”

I was actually shocked by the level of English spoken by many Israelis. Israel wishes to promote Hebrew first and foremost which is fine but isolationist of them. Many do not learn English in school or not well. I didn’t travel there as a tourist so I may have met a different group than others commenting. So, my assumption is that Sela is somewhat tied to this project of Hebrew language revival but at what cost?

Is it isolation of Italians to speak Italian? Maltese to speak Maltese? Finns to speak Finnish? Your bias is showing. Hebrew is officially revived. - and has been for 100+ years. I guess the cost is a strong public school option for a diverse cross-section of DC students...sounds like a win-win.

The pro Sela crowd on here is conflating all sorts of arguments.

There is no problem with any country or ethnic or religious group speaking its own language. And also speaking, or not speaking, English.

The problem is when DCPS funds a dual language immersion program in a niche language that in and of itself is of almost no practical value to its students.

It is of no consequence or relevance that Hebrew has been officially revived - what matters is whether speaking Hebrew confers some educational advantage and improved career prospects to its students and whether public monies should therefore be spent on it.

And immersion programs are also of great value educationally.

But the fact that immersion programs are of great value does not mean it follows that every language should be offered. The pro Sela folks on here with a straight face would argue that DCPS should fund a dual language English/Maltese program (this would actually make some narrative sense since Maltese is a semitic language)? Or a dual language English/Finnish program? How about a dual language Klingon/English program?

If you feel strongly that your kids should speak Hebrew then great - teach them Hebrew yourself or find a program through a local synagogue or private school. Same is true of lots of other languages.

But you need to have stronger arguments than anyone has offered in this thread to justify spending scarce public money to educate kids in a language that in all likelihood they will never have any practical use for.

The worst of it is that the time that some in the article said spent on subject; IF, they are not scoring highly on PARCC or some other assessment that valuable time at this age should be spent on remediation. By middle school they will behind and never catch up. If you are advanced or proficient sure go ahead and learn Hebrew or any other language but do not market it to a population who deserves more. In a few years they won't remember how to speak Hebrew just some phrases! The low reading of some students in DCPS school is shocking.

Funny but why all the SELA boosters playing the race card and I bet not of you all are black, WP pictures only AA children why is that? What race are the teachers? Interesting, we're not playing the race card, we are saying AA title 1 low-income children deserve better so says a black mothers!

Sure you are. 70% of the children at Sela are African-American, which means that almost certainly a majority of the mothers at Sela are African-American.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK, here's the thing. I just don't believe that the founders/funders of this school have a wholesome desire for brains to be generically stimulated intellectually through language. Nope.

The founder went to Israel, got pregnant, thought how is my child going to be raised with Hebrew outside of Israel? I know, I'll get a lot of support and funding to create a school in DC where I would like to live. The model is there already. It can be a public school. Look into the network a bit more -- it is all about public provision of Hebrew school (what used to be a private endeavor, because, it was clearly religious). Concerns: not being fully transparent about your motives, and, mixing religion with public education.

Ok. Here’s the thing. I believe you are an anti-Semite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, here's the thing. I just don't believe that the founders/funders of this school have a wholesome desire for brains to be generically stimulated intellectually through language. Nope.

The founder went to Israel, got pregnant, thought how is my child going to be raised with Hebrew outside of Israel? I know, I'll get a lot of support and funding to create a school in DC where I would like to live. The model is there already. It can be a public school. Look into the network a bit more -- it is all about public provision of Hebrew school (what used to be a private endeavor, because, it was clearly religious). Concerns: not being fully transparent about your motives, and, mixing religion with public education.

Ok. Here’s the thing. I believe you are an anti-Semite.

I'm surprised it took 4 pages for someone to claim criticism of this school is anti-semitic.

How about responding to the substance of the previous post? I assume the school isn't mixing religion and public education so why not point that out?

But I do think it is fair to point out that most people in the US who learn to speak Hebrew do so for religious reasons and not academic or business ones.

So given the limited utility of Hebrew as a second language it does seem like a fair question.

Also are there any non Jewish white people sending their kids to this school? There are certainly many non-hispanic whites sending their kids to Oyster and many non- Chinese whites sending their kids to Yu Ying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would fully support a Finnish immersion school. Finnish is a very difficult language - and the Finnish educational model is arguably the best or one of the best in the world. The anti-Sela harpies come out every time Sela receives any news whatsoever, e.g., being ranked as a four star school or being ranked tier 1. If you don’t want to send your kid there, don’t. I don’t particularly like my tax dollars being spent at several far less excelling DCPS or charter schools, or subsidizing rich families with pre-k 3. However, there is plenty utility in learning any difficult language, particularly if you want school to be rigorous and interesting, which we know you don’t think poor children or children of color deserve.

I agree here. I think many are complaining that taxpayer funds are going to fund Hebrew (admittedly a “random” language choice for DC), but dc also finds a ton of shitty schools. Sela is a strong school (historically tier 1 except for this year because they have a very small fifth grade class skewing the scores and bc it’s the first year they did parcc testing). So it’s not like DC is funding a random language immersion that is poorly ranked. If dc wants to fund a strong immersion school -regardless of what language- so that more strong immersion schools are offered in DC than I strongly support that. DCUM can’t complain on one hand that there aren’t enough strong charters in DC then also complain that DC shouldn’t fund an existing strong charter because its Hebrew.

+2. I don't really think there's a valid argument on this thread - just ranting that kids are being taught Hebrew. Or maybe some of these posters are just anti school choice.

You can't look at the largely lackluster DCPS system and say with a straight face you don't think taxpayer dollars should go to a public school that is performing.

Anyway it's a moot point - anyone can start your own immersion charter school in whatever language you want. Come up with a successful program and your school will get taxpayer dollars too (though not nearly as much as DCPS schools get). It's good to have out of the box choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would fully support a Finnish immersion school. Finnish is a very difficult language - and the Finnish educational model is arguably the best or one of the best in the world. The anti-Sela harpies come out every time Sela receives any news whatsoever, e.g., being ranked as a four star school or being ranked tier 1. If you don’t want to send your kid there, don’t. I don’t particularly like my tax dollars being spent at several far less excelling DCPS or charter schools, or subsidizing rich families with pre-k 3. However, there is plenty utility in learning any difficult language, particularly if you want school to be rigorous and interesting, which we know you don’t think poor children or children of color deserve.

I agree here. I think many are complaining that taxpayer funds are going to fund Hebrew (admittedly a “random” language choice for DC), but dc also finds a ton of shitty schools. Sela is a strong school (historically tier 1 except for this year because they have a very small fifth grade class skewing the scores and bc it’s the first year they did parcc testing). So it’s not like DC is funding a random language immersion that is poorly ranked. If dc wants to fund a strong immersion school -regardless of what language- so that more strong immersion schools are offered in DC than I strongly support that. DCUM can’t complain on one hand that there aren’t enough strong charters in DC then also complain that DC shouldn’t fund an existing strong charter because its Hebrew.

+2. I don't really think there's a valid argument on this thread - just ranting that kids are being taught Hebrew. Or maybe some of these posters are just anti school choice.

You can't look at the largely lackluster DCPS system and say with a straight face you don't think taxpayer dollars should go to a public school that is performing.

Anyway it's a moot point - anyone can start your own immersion charter school in whatever language you want. Come up with a successful program and your school will get taxpayer dollars too (though not nearly as much as DCPS schools get). It's good to have out of the box choices.

Sure in the context of the mish mash of charters DCPS funds Sela should probably be one of the least scrutinized of the many questionable schools out there.

But that doesn't mean it should not be scrutinized. Throwing good money after bad is generally not considered a good thing and there is still generally some scrapping for funds in DCPS.

And probably no one should just be able to start their own immersion charter school in whatever language they want - I'd hope that DCPS would reject a proposal for a Klingon immersion charter and scrutinize any proposal to teach kids in other niche languages.

[Anonymous]

DCPS doesn't approve or fund charters.

If a Klingon charter is proposed in the future, you and anyone else in the city with concerns can testify against its opening when the charter is up for discussion at the DCPCSB.

[Anonymous]

This thread is a mess. As someone who lived in Israel, speaks Arabic and Hebrew and had a kid attend a Spanish immersion school, here are a couple of thoughts:

1 Anyone who thinks it's easier to start a charter school than to teach their kid a language is delusional. The idea is not anti-Semitic on it's face, but it sure smacks of the kind of mental gymnastics that anti-Semites tend to use to justify ad hominem attacks on people who happen to be Jewish.

2. Questioning the utility of Hebrew for DC school children is in no way anti-Semitic. Noting that any subject matter dealing with Israel/Palestine is in danger of being politically charged is also not anti-Semitic. Questioning US aid to Israel and Israel's human rights record is not anti-Semitic. With that said, some people who are critical of Israel are deeply anti-Semitic.

3. Having studied Torah and Talmud for many years and even attending yeshiva in Israel before learning Arabic did make Arabic easier for me, but it would have been quicker to just learn Arabic if that had been my goal.

4. There are people in Israel who don't speak English, but my experience was that that the brief time that I spent volunteering with the army was the only time I was around very many of them. Most people really liked to practice their English with me, which I found frustrating. Interestingly, when I returned to Israel after learning Arabic, some people (Sephardi orthodox Jews) preferred to speak Arabic with me to speaking Hebrew. All in all, I think Hebrew is of limited use as a foreign language for Americans. I chose Spanish immersion for my kid and would do so in a heartbeat again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS doesn't approve or fund charters.

If a Klingon charter is proposed in the future, you and anyone else in the city with concerns can testify against its opening when the charter is up for discussion at the DCPCSB.

+1. That PP doesn't seem to understand how PCSs work. Plus, Klingon is a made-up language whereas Hebrew is a real language with linguistic, social, cultural, historical roots. But I'm guessing PP knows that and is just trying to be inflammatory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, here's the thing. I just don't believe that the founders/funders of this school have a wholesome desire for brains to be generically stimulated intellectually through language. Nope.

The founder went to Israel, got pregnant, thought how is my child going to be raised with Hebrew outside of Israel? I know, I'll get a lot of support and funding to create a school in DC where I would like to live. The model is there already. It can be a public school. Look into the network a bit more -- it is all about public provision of Hebrew school (what used to be a private endeavor, because, it was clearly religious). Concerns: not being fully transparent about your motives, and, mixing religion with public education.

Ok. Here’s the thing. I believe you are an anti-Semite.

I'm surprised it took 4 pages for someone to claim criticism of this school is anti-semitic.

How about responding to the substance of the previous post? I assume the school isn't mixing religion and public education so why not point that out?

But I do think it is fair to point out that most people in the US who learn to speak Hebrew do so for religious reasons and not academic or business ones.

So given the limited utility of Hebrew as a second language it does seem like a fair question.

Also are there any non Jewish white people sending their kids to this school? There are certainly many non-hispanic whites sending their kids to Oyster and many non- Chinese whites sending their kids to Yu Ying.

So much racist BS to unpack. The PP alludes to pregnant women conniving to divert public resources with aid of shadowy cabal. SMH.