Please read this before focusing too much on grades/elite colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/opinion/college-gpa-career-success.html#commentsContainer

My kids, who were mediocre high school students, excelled in college and have happy, fulfilled lives. Your kids can, too.

I've been in recruiting meetings at work ... we don't have the time to give everyone a chance, we have feeder colleges that have a history of giving us the talent we need and we literally won't even look at your resume with less than a 3.7 (software filters). The Times produces a lot of bullsh*t click-bait for the masses. All the big time journalists there send their kids to elite colleges. Kristof kids Harvard ... Charles Blow son at Yale ... on and on and on.

I recently was recruited for a company: they reached out to me for a high level job. I am a PhD Scientist, working for 25 years. PhD is from a good school; and I have won internationally recognized awards. My efforts are responsible for about 4 million per year in revenue.

I was rejected because of my college GPA. WTF?

hmmm... was it a good college?

It should not matter 25 years into a carreer with an established track record. And they contacted me. I did not contact them

I’ll bet the hiring team had very little professional experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/opinion/college-gpa-career-success.html#commentsContainer

My kids, who were mediocre high school students, excelled in college and have happy, fulfilled lives. Your kids can, too.

I've been in recruiting meetings at work ... we don't have the time to give everyone a chance, we have feeder colleges that have a history of giving us the talent we need and we literally won't even look at your resume with less than a 3.7 (software filters). The Times produces a lot of bullsh*t click-bait for the masses. All the big time journalists there send their kids to elite colleges. Kristof kids Harvard ... Charles Blow son at Yale ... on and on and on.

Meh - it depends on the industry. The more technical the position, the less concern about pedigree.

Yes, this is 100% true. My husband has no college degree, yet is brilliant in the technical field, has done well, and is highly sought-after.

My eldest is a tech guy - finishes this year with a degree in computer science, wanting to go into cyber security. He's in 'lowly' George Mason (according to DCUM). What he's gotten there are teachers who work in the industry. So not only is he getting meaningful projects and lectures, but more than one of his professors have dedicated classes to discussing how to get the first job, how to interview, what do focus on, etc. His classes are all tailored by these non-academic professors towards real-world. They get how the world works, unlike those who never step out of the academic environment.

My middle child is at a highly regarded DCUM college. It's all academics and when she graduates, getting a job will be hard, because they steered my kid towards the soft-sciences and all that other pablum these elite colleges teach. We will pay extra for this kid to take at least one certification course in project management to increase marketability. Her excellent grades and the name of the school will take this kid far, but the coursework will NOT.

My youngest just got into his target school. He wants computational linguistics and probably could have gotten into a linguistics program at another DCUM target school. But he said those schools will not prepare him as well as his target will. As he put it "I can go to Harvard, get a degree in linguistics, and not be prepared for real-world A computational linguistics degree at a school that also has a great computer science department will help me get an actual job" When I asked him the difference, he said that undergrad linguistics degrees qualify you to put foam on lattes. Undergrad computational linguistics degrees teach you how to program Siri not to say f*ck. The latter is much more marketable.

The key to ANY college education is marketability when you graduate, as well as preparation. Someone who learns hard technical skills in ANY college is always MUCH more marketable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/opinion/college-gpa-career-success.html#commentsContainer

My kids, who were mediocre high school students, excelled in college and have happy, fulfilled lives. Your kids can, too.

I've been in recruiting meetings at work ... we don't have the time to give everyone a chance, we have feeder colleges that have a history of giving us the talent we need and we literally won't even look at your resume with less than a 3.7 (software filters). The Times produces a lot of bullsh*t click-bait for the masses. All the big time journalists there send their kids to elite colleges. Kristof kids Harvard ... Charles Blow son at Yale ... on and on and on.

You and your company are missing out.

DP. They, probably, are, but it is not the point. And the point is, there are always fewer coveted spots than there are applicants, so if your uncle doesn't sit on the company's board and/or you aren't at an Ivy making good grades, your access to certain well-paid jobs will be somewhat restricted.
This is not to say that these jobs will necessarily lead to one's happiness and personal fullfillment, but if getting the job is your current goal..

There are plenty of high paying jobs for everyone. I wouldn’t stress about this. Most people don’t attend Ivy League schools.

That's just something that people with lousy grades say.

My DD is a straight A student at a highly regarded DCUM school. I don't think she's ever gotten a B in any class EVER, in fact. She's not marketable at this point, with the skills they taught. They did nothing to prepare her for real-world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/opinion/college-gpa-career-success.html#commentsContainer

My kids, who were mediocre high school students, excelled in college and have happy, fulfilled lives. Your kids can, too.

I've been in recruiting meetings at work ... we don't have the time to give everyone a chance, we have feeder colleges that have a history of giving us the talent we need and we literally won't even look at your resume with less than a 3.7 (software filters). The Times produces a lot of bullsh*t click-bait for the masses. All the big time journalists there send their kids to elite colleges. Kristof kids Harvard ... Charles Blow son at Yale ... on and on and on.

You and your company are missing out.

DP. They, probably, are, but it is not the point. And the point is, there are always fewer coveted spots than there are applicants, so if your uncle doesn't sit on the company's board and/or you aren't at an Ivy making good grades, your access to certain well-paid jobs will be somewhat restricted.
This is not to say that these jobs will necessarily lead to one's happiness and personal fullfillment, but if getting the job is your current goal..

There are plenty of high paying jobs for everyone. I wouldn’t stress about this. Most people don’t attend Ivy League schools.

That's just something that people with lousy grades say.

My DD is a straight A student at a highly regarded DCUM school. I don't think she's ever gotten a B in any class EVER, in fact. She's not marketable at this point, with the skills they taught. They did nothing to prepare her for real-world.

I went to an Ivy and majored in the humanities and had no problems getting recruited for consulting firms after college. I did have summer internships that helped. I'm sure that you're right if the student does nothing but study they won't be marketable unless a special niche like a AA recruit, but if you lined up a few solid summer internships in sophomore and junior summers you will do well, regardless of the major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/08/opinion/college-gpa-career-success.html#commentsContainer

My kids, who were mediocre high school students, excelled in college and have happy, fulfilled lives. Your kids can, too.

I've been in recruiting meetings at work ... we don't have the time to give everyone a chance, we have feeder colleges that have a history of giving us the talent we need and we literally won't even look at your resume with less than a 3.7 (software filters). The Times produces a lot of bullsh*t click-bait for the masses. All the big time journalists there send their kids to elite colleges. Kristof kids Harvard ... Charles Blow son at Yale ... on and on and on.

You and your company are missing out.

DP. They, probably, are, but it is not the point. And the point is, there are always fewer coveted spots than there are applicants, so if your uncle doesn't sit on the company's board and/or you aren't at an Ivy making good grades, your access to certain well-paid jobs will be somewhat restricted.
This is not to say that these jobs will necessarily lead to one's happiness and personal fullfillment, but if getting the job is your current goal..

There are plenty of high paying jobs for everyone. I wouldn’t stress about this. Most people don’t attend Ivy League schools.

That's just something that people with lousy grades say.

My DD is a straight A student at a highly regarded DCUM school. I don't think she's ever gotten a B in any class EVER, in fact. She's not marketable at this point, with the skills they taught. They did nothing to prepare her for real-world.

What is she majoring in? Didn't she do any internships? When I'm hiring new grads and interns, I'm looking at grades but also projects they have done in class that relate to our work and prior job experience. (FWIW, I don't at all about a prestigious college)

If her classes are all theoretical and aren't bringing in any significant project work that she can talk about in interviews then I'd agree that's on the school, probably focused on getting their students into grad school rather than employment. But, if she hasn't done any work/internships, that's not the school's fault, that's on her. Also, if classes aren't offering work-related experiences, she could also get that through various student organizations. Again, that's on the student.

[Anonymous]

I have never looked at anybody’s grades when hiring them as I have found that common sense is most important and a whole lot of really “smart” people are extra stupid about basic shit, and most jobs require some training anyway.

[Anonymous]

"My DD is a straight A student at a highly regarded DCUM school. I don't think she's ever gotten a B in any class EVER, in fact. She's not marketable at this point, with the skills they taught. They did nothing to prepare her for real-world."

You just don't get it. Anyone with straight As at a DCUM school has jumped through a crazy number of hoops over the years. Employers are crazy for that sort of thing.

Marketable is important for someone like your husband who had no credentials. With crazy credentials, you don't get an entry level job that requires skills that are going to go stale in two years, you get a fast-track management slot.

https://www.boeing.com/careers/college/rotational-programs.page

https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/companies-with-office-rotation-options/

And as someone else said, if she hasn't had an internship yet, that's on YOU or her, not the college.

If the college pushed her to go to grad school, she should still had a couple of summers of research under her belt and some (writing) skills developed even if they don't include the next programming language to be out-sourced for lower costs.

[Anonymous]

Top jobs demand 3.5+ GPA (many are 3.7+) & proof of your SAT/GRE/GMAT scores to verify your IQ (i.e. not just a dumb legacy, athlete, etc.)

Nobody cares about whatever backstory you think justifies your kid's mediocre GPA. A top GPA signals goal-oriented, discipline over a LONG period of time, maturity, can perform under pressure, doesn't get rattled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never looked at anybody’s grades when hiring them as I have found that common sense is most important and a whole lot of really “smart” people are extra stupid about basic shit, and most jobs require some training anyway.

Thanks for chiming in, Goldman Sachs VP... Nobody cares who you hire at your backwater company. Every company worth its salt has STANDARDS – and a limited amount of free time to filter thru resumes, make callbacks, conduct interviews, perform background checks. In your fantasy land every kids gets a fair shake and there's an infinite amount of free time. That's not the real world. The real world uses software to sort applicants, filters out the lazy, and selects from the cream on the top.

[Anonymous]

Daughter A
"My dear daughter got rattled freshman year and bombed a few courses... but she's a late bloomer who matured a lot in subsequent years and now her GPA is built up to a 3.3."

vs

Daughter B
"My dear daughter is a machine, totally self-reliant, dependable, solid, has goals and sticks to them... has earned a 3.8 GPA."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my favorite pearls of wisdom from med school: “do you know what they call the person who graduated last in their med school class?”...”Doctor”.

yeah but try getting into med school in the first place with average grades.

Yup, a family member went to a good college and got middle of the road grades and could not get into med school. Tried a few times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have an issue with this. If colleges take this approach is actually awesome news for DC! However, I also don't see the point of putting down the straight A student ("conformity" & "missing out socially")

I know so many partiers who got straight As. There is more than one profile of an A student.

Agree that these stereotypes of A students are inaccurate and inappropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have an issue with this. If colleges take this approach is actually awesome news for DC! However, I also don't see the point of putting down the straight A student ("conformity" & "missing out socially")

I know so many partiers who got straight As. There is more than one profile of an A student.

Agree that these stereotypes of A students are inaccurate and inappropriate.

+2. Much of this thread sounds like immature delusional frat boys who rationalized their embarrassing grades with "but I'm like a people person, I'll be able to bullshit my way into a good job." Yeah... unlikely, bro, when you're competing against polished kids who are both personable AND have top grades AND with impressive resumes (campus involvement, better summer jobs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never looked at anybody’s grades when hiring them as I have found that common sense is most important and a whole lot of really “smart” people are extra stupid about basic shit, and most jobs require some training anyway.

Thanks for chiming in, Goldman Sachs VP... Nobody cares who you hire at your backwater company. Every company worth its salt has STANDARDS – and a limited amount of free time to filter thru resumes, make callbacks, conduct interviews, perform background checks. In your fantasy land every kids gets a fair shake and there's an infinite amount of free time. That's not the real world. The real world uses software to sort applicants, filters out the lazy, and selects from the cream on the top.

Not my experience at all. It’s not about grades, it’s about connections and using them to get a job. You also have to be a good interviewer! And, if you are a crummy employee, you will get fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm on hiring committee and we no longer consider Ivy League graduates. Too many of them were demanding "leave" for personal travel and special perks. They weren't good team players or "out of box" thinkers. I'm in journalism and, believe me, not all the NYTimes journalists send their kids to elite schools. Not by a long shot.

+1

I have noticed this in our industries, also.