Story about the "free birthers." Anyone read it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PPs, I'm the med free VBAC poster.

Free birthers are likely more a product of the OB system who are desperate to have a say in their own birth rather than narcissists trying to live out some fantasy birth.

there are other options besides a hospital birth and giving birth without anyone with any experience to guide you. If it's not narcissism, what is it?

It is irresponsible to not have another experienced person around. Period. She and her husband were not equipped for this, clearly, because they didn't have the sense to seek assistance until six days had passed. Talk about being more committed to the process than the outcome.

No. Most of us don't have an option between a very medicalized hospital birth and a free birth. You go with what your insurance allows.

No, it's not true that all OBs are out to get you. In this day and age, if you make an effort to actually talk to your OB and establish your preferences, you can have a less medicalized birth. Nobody is going to tie you down and administer an epidural and episiotomy when you arrive at the hospital.

If you have extreme preferences like being AMA and high risk and wanting to go to 43 weeks ... well, that's a different matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that a med free VBAC with midwives is very different from a free birth. My point was that I was so driven to despair with OB care that I was strongly considering a free birth with all its attendant risks.

Do you recognize how extremely irrational that was to consider free birth? I mean, it's useful for you to point out what factors lead someone to be so irrational. But do you understand how irrational you were? And also, what media and messages were you consuming that made you so "despairing" about potentially not doing a VBAC? Your despair was far from the only possible reaction. Other women might have just been grateful that their first baby was delivered healthy. In addition, how did you conclude that the "cascade of interventions" was at fault for your first c-section, as opposed to being needed?

What I'm saying here is that you're not telling a normal story about a normal reaction. You were already extremely embedded in the natural birth ideology.

DP here but I wouldn't trust doctors either if they were all telling me I had no choice but to have surgery because of their preferences, because they were making the decision for me. In fact I have been told in other healthcare contexts that a risky course of treatment was the only option, only later to find out it was not. You feel lied to and you lose trust in doctors. I would never go off the grid over it.. but I can see where that impulse comes from for some people. Especially after a traumatic first birth. It could put you in a radical mindset, at least temporarily.

And you don't know how traumatized she was by her birth. YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that a med free VBAC with midwives is very different from a free birth. My point was that I was so driven to despair with OB care that I was strongly considering a free birth with all its attendant risks.

Do you recognize how extremely irrational that was to consider free birth? I mean, it's useful for you to point out what factors lead someone to be so irrational. But do you understand how irrational you were? And also, what media and messages were you consuming that made you so "despairing" about potentially not doing a VBAC? Your despair was far from the only possible reaction. Other women might have just been grateful that their first baby was delivered healthy. In addition, how did you conclude that the "cascade of interventions" was at fault for your first c-section, as opposed to being needed?

What I'm saying here is that you're not telling a normal story about a normal reaction. You were already extremely embedded in the natural birth ideology.

DP here but I wouldn't trust doctors either if they were all telling me I had no choice but to have surgery because of their preferences, because they were making the decision for me. In fact I have been told in other healthcare contexts that a risky course of treatment was the only option, only later to find out it was not. You feel lied to and you lose trust in doctors. I would never go off the grid over it.. but I can see where that impulse comes from for some people. Especially after a traumatic first birth. It could put you in a radical mindset, at least temporarily.

And you don't know how traumatized she was by her birth. YMMV.

Guess what. Our health care system is not perfect; and doctors are not magical angels. The normal people among us may have some distressing experiences, but we learn from them and are smart enough to seek out better care, not "freebirth." Freebirth is a whacko conspiracy theory. It's entirely possible to be a discerning health care consumer, without rejecting all of modern medicine. I've had lots of discussions with my child's doctors about medications and procedures, and have decided not to follow some advice after very thoughtful consideration and discussion. But I still take DS to the doctor, get all vaccinations, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that a med free VBAC with midwives is very different from a free birth. My point was that I was so driven to despair with OB care that I was strongly considering a free birth with all its attendant risks.

Do you recognize how extremely irrational that was to consider free birth? I mean, it's useful for you to point out what factors lead someone to be so irrational. But do you understand how irrational you were? And also, what media and messages were you consuming that made you so "despairing" about potentially not doing a VBAC? Your despair was far from the only possible reaction. Other women might have just been grateful that their first baby was delivered healthy. In addition, how did you conclude that the "cascade of interventions" was at fault for your first c-section, as opposed to being needed?

What I'm saying here is that you're not telling a normal story about a normal reaction. You were already extremely embedded in the natural birth ideology.

DP here but I wouldn't trust doctors either if they were all telling me I had no choice but to have surgery because of their preferences, because they were making the decision for me. In fact I have been told in other healthcare contexts that a risky course of treatment was the only option, only later to find out it was not. You feel lied to and you lose trust in doctors. I would never go off the grid over it.. but I can see where that impulse comes from for some people. Especially after a traumatic first birth. It could put you in a radical mindset, at least temporarily.

And you don't know how traumatized she was by her birth. YMMV.

Guess what. Our health care system is not perfect; and doctors are not magical angels. The normal people among us may have some distressing experiences, but we learn from them and are smart enough to seek out better care, not "freebirth." Freebirth is a whacko conspiracy theory. It's entirely possible to be a discerning health care consumer, without rejecting all of modern medicine. I've had lots of discussions with my child's doctors about medications and procedures, and have decided not to follow some advice after very thoughtful consideration and discussion. But I still take DS to the doctor, get all vaccinations, etc.

You don’t have to be an angel to be honest and respectful. Clearly you have never been treated that way - it’s more than just disagreeing over medical treatment. Some OBs can be coercive. And I don’t think anyone in the DC area can identify with the many women who live in rural areas, who really have very few if any choices in where to obtain maternity care. So there are lots of reasons why unassisted birth could be appealing that we just can’t comprehend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that a med free VBAC with midwives is very different from a free birth. My point was that I was so driven to despair with OB care that I was strongly considering a free birth with all its attendant risks.

Do you recognize how extremely irrational that was to consider free birth? I mean, it's useful for you to point out what factors lead someone to be so irrational. But do you understand how irrational you were? And also, what media and messages were you consuming that made you so "despairing" about potentially not doing a VBAC? Your despair was far from the only possible reaction. Other women might have just been grateful that their first baby was delivered healthy. In addition, how did you conclude that the "cascade of interventions" was at fault for your first c-section, as opposed to being needed?

What I'm saying here is that you're not telling a normal story about a normal reaction. You were already extremely embedded in the natural birth ideology. [/quot

this. th women who are "despairing" and despondent have major mental health issues and have been fed a lot of BS about hw giving birth will transform them into magical women and anything less is failure. I wanted to live and have a healthy baby. period. if you are despondent over YOUR birth experience (this seems to have little to do with the experience of the baby), you need a therapist and prozac. not free birth. some women are secure and confident and don't need birth to prove their worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that a med free VBAC with midwives is very different from a free birth. My point was that I was so driven to despair with OB care that I was strongly considering a free birth with all its attendant risks.

Do you recognize how extremely irrational that was to consider free birth? I mean, it's useful for you to point out what factors lead someone to be so irrational. But do you understand how irrational you were? And also, what media and messages were you consuming that made you so "despairing" about potentially not doing a VBAC? Your despair was far from the only possible reaction. Other women might have just been grateful that their first baby was delivered healthy. In addition, how did you conclude that the "cascade of interventions" was at fault for your first c-section, as opposed to being needed?

What I'm saying here is that you're not telling a normal story about a normal reaction. You were already extremely embedded in the natural birth ideology.

DP here but I wouldn't trust doctors either if they were all telling me I had no choice but to have surgery because of their preferences, because they were making the decision for me. In fact I have been told in other healthcare contexts that a risky course of treatment was the only option, only later to find out it was not. You feel lied to and you lose trust in doctors. I would never go off the grid over it.. but I can see where that impulse comes from for some people. Especially after a traumatic first birth. It could put you in a radical mindset, at least temporarily.

And you don't know how traumatized she was by her birth. YMMV.

Guess what. Our health care system is not perfect; and doctors are not magical angels. The normal people among us may have some distressing experiences, but we learn from them and are smart enough to seek out better care, not "freebirth." Freebirth is a whacko conspiracy theory. It's entirely possible to be a discerning health care consumer, without rejecting all of modern medicine. I've had lots of discussions with my child's doctors about medications and procedures, and have decided not to follow some advice after very thoughtful consideration and discussion. But I still take DS to the doctor, get all vaccinations, etc.

You don’t have to be an angel to be honest and respectful. Clearly you have never been treated that way - it’s more than just disagreeing over medical treatment. Some OBs can be coercive. And I don’t think anyone in the DC area can identify with the many women who live in rural areas, who really have very few if any choices in where to obtain maternity care. So there are lots of reasons why unassisted birth could be appealing that we just can’t comprehend.

I have one relative who was killed by malpractice and one who almost was, and I still go to the doctor. It’s not a rational response to decide to skip all medical care due to a poor experience.

[Anonymous]

I had a homebirth.
I’m generally pro homebirth, though I certainly don’t think it’s for everyone.
That said, NO WAY would I have been comfortable with this scenario AT ALL. NOPE.

[Anonymous]

Home birth PP here. That said, the viciousness with which she was then attacked while mourning her baby is really disturbing. And sadly unsurprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PPs, I'm the med free VBAC poster.

Free birthers are likely more a product of the OB system who are desperate to have a say in their own birth rather than narcissists trying to live out some fantasy birth.

there are other options besides a hospital birth and giving birth without anyone with any experience to guide you. If it's not narcissism, what is it?

It is irresponsible to not have another experienced person around. Period. She and her husband were not equipped for this, clearly, because they didn't have the sense to seek assistance until six days had passed. Talk about being more committed to the process than the outcome.

No. Most of us don't have an option between a very medicalized hospital birth and a free birth. You go with what your insurance allows.

No, it's not true that all OBs are out to get you. In this day and age, if you make an effort to actually talk to your OB and establish your preferences, you can have a less medicalized birth. Nobody is going to tie you down and administer an epidural and episiotomy when you arrive at the hospital.

If you have extreme preferences like being AMA and high risk and wanting to go to 43 weeks ... well, that's a different matter.

My OB wasn't out to "get me" but yes, she wanted to schedule a c section at 40 weeks for me and I had a forced induction at 41 weeks. I wanted to go to 42 weeks. I was extremely healthy, so neither were medically indicated. I've had 3 vaginal births, but they were all after 30+ hours of induction. My babies were not ready and I wanted to wait. I have never been allowed to go to 42 weeks like I would like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Home birth PP here. That said, the viciousness with which she was then attacked while mourning her baby is really disturbing. And sadly unsurprising.

Agree. After all, babies also die (as do mothers - we have an astronomical maternal death rate!!) in the hospital.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why these women can't birth in a birthing center. Most will be as hands off as you would like UNLESS you need intervention. Its truly the perfect combination.

That's how homebirth midwives are, too. A birth center has the same licensed medical professionals as an assisted homebirth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not want much medical monitoring or intervention. I didn't want a band around my stomach, I didn't want drugs, I didn't want ... much of anything.

And so I found a midwife who agreed to do what I wanted as long as I and the baby were not in distress. And she agreed to work with me as long as I agreed to medical intervention if either of us were in distress.

Me, DH, Midwife, Doula and Baby were the only ones in the room. I went home 26 hours after giving birth.

I had a hospital birth and went home in the same amount of time.

Obviously the PP you responded to had a hospital birth. You're discharged around 6 hours after delivering in a birth center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you PPs, I'm the med free VBAC poster.

Free birthers are likely more a product of the OB system who are desperate to have a say in their own birth rather than narcissists trying to live out some fantasy birth.

there are other options besides a hospital birth and giving birth without anyone with any experience to guide you. If it's not narcissism, what is it?

It is irresponsible to not have another experienced person around. Period. She and her husband were not equipped for this, clearly, because they didn't have the sense to seek assistance until six days had passed. Talk about being more committed to the process than the outcome.

No. Most of us don't have an option between a very medicalized hospital birth and a free birth. You go with what your insurance allows.

"I don't want to give birth in a hospital, but my insurance doesn't cover a birthing center or an attended home birth, so I'll just go it alone!"

Idiocy.

It is tragic that insurers don't cover more options, many of which are probably less expensive than hospital birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did not want much medical monitoring or intervention. I didn't want a band around my stomach, I didn't want drugs, I didn't want ... much of anything.

And so I found a midwife who agreed to do what I wanted as long as I and the baby were not in distress. And she agreed to work with me as long as I agreed to medical intervention if either of us were in distress.

Me, DH, Midwife, Doula and Baby were the only ones in the room. I went home 26 hours after giving birth.

I had a hospital birth and went home in the same amount of time.

I had a c-section and went home at 24-hours. You can have whatever kind of birth you want, but this has become so politicized that it's dangerous to babies and women. So much false information out there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, I know that a med free VBAC with midwives is very different from a free birth. My point was that I was so driven to despair with OB care that I was strongly considering a free birth with all its attendant risks.

Do you recognize how extremely irrational that was to consider free birth? I mean, it's useful for you to point out what factors lead someone to be so irrational. But do you understand how irrational you were? And also, what media and messages were you consuming that made you so "despairing" about potentially not doing a VBAC? Your despair was far from the only possible reaction. Other women might have just been grateful that their first baby was delivered healthy. In addition, how did you conclude that the "cascade of interventions" was at fault for your first c-section, as opposed to being needed?

What I'm saying here is that you're not telling a normal story about a normal reaction. You were already extremely embedded in the natural birth ideology.

DP here but I wouldn't trust doctors either if they were all telling me I had no choice but to have surgery because of their preferences, because they were making the decision for me. In fact I have been told in other healthcare contexts that a risky course of treatment was the only option, only later to find out it was not. You feel lied to and you lose trust in doctors. I would never go off the grid over it.. but I can see where that impulse comes from for some people. Especially after a traumatic first birth. It could put you in a radical mindset, at least temporarily.

And you don't know how traumatized she was by her birth. YMMV.

Sometimes it's the only course of treatment that doctor or hospital is capable of. We have a ridiculous health care system where the parts don't speak to each other, and your insurance controls who you can see, which also often controls which treatments are available. Just because an alternative approach to a problem is possible, not all doctors have been trained in it, and your primary care doc can't know about everything available. I've been in this situation, too, and it has taken me until the last few years (as I approached 40), to recognize that getting to the right doctor is probably the primary thing you need to focus on if you have a serious health care issue.

Also, if you know a physician who will let you read up on your condition on the website "Up To Date," that is where you will find the most current information for clinicians and possibly discover some options.