Laid off attorney

[Anonymous]

how funny. you think all lawyers like to work their ass off? most people do not, and that includes lawyers. I had 1400 SATs but crappy grades in high school, then the great LSATs but crappy grades in college. I actually did by far the best gradewise in law school since the grade is all based on one test (usually) and that is my one skill at life other than being a personable bs'er- being a quick read and an amazing test taker. which is how i got the high paying job i have now.

my extensive interaction with govt attorneys from most agencies other than DOJ (say EPA, HUD, GSA, TSA, etc.) is that they return calls maybe once a week if ever, they never answer their phone, are on vacation all the time (seemingly), and expect you to do their work for them (i.e., draft the document, even if a fed form). now that sounds like I am insulting them but I am not. I WANT THAT! by the way, I interned at a govt agency when i was in law school and nobody did anything all day from what I could tell. it was amazing. compare that to where I am now (big international law firm) where everyone is constantly running around scared shitless until 9pm every night. f it.

[Anonymous]

You sound like a real winner.

Where on earth do you expect to practice real estate law in the government?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a real winner.

Where on earth do you expect to practice real estate law in the government?

Thanks. some folks are not driven by their careers I suppose. I enjoy travelling, reading, family, gardening, you name it - but not work! You tell me, that is why I posted the question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a real winner.

Where on earth do you expect to practice real estate law in the government?

GSA, FDIC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:is EVERYONE on these forums an attorney from a top school?

yes. welcome to DC.

[Anonymous]

I am really curious to know what possible real estate specialty in a "large international law firm" routinely deals not only with DOJ, but also TSA, EPA, GSA and HUD. Sounds like a contract attorney on doc review to me. But whatever.

Good luck, OP. You have received some really good advice on here. Here's hoping you land something wonderful by the end of the year!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am really curious to know what possible real estate specialty in a "large international law firm" routinely deals not only with DOJ, but also TSA, EPA, GSA and HUD. Sounds like a contract attorney on doc review to me. But whatever.

Good luck, OP. You have received some really good advice on here. Here's hoping you land something wonderful by the end of the year!

not the PP, but our real estate practice group routinely negotiates leases with all of those govt agencies, or GSA as the govt's agent. landlords want those agencies as tenants. especially in DC. and of course any real estate attorney needs to know EPA rules for CERCLA and clean-up regs and the HUD rules for lending to multi-family landlords.

never heard of ANY real estate lawyer doing doc review, nor contract work. that is litigation-speak. you sound like a douchebag.

[Anonymous]

Hey, thanks for importing a little Above the Law to DCUM, right down to the use of the term douchebag. I think I am now supposed to ask you if you are referring to Magic Circle firm or a V5, but we can leave that for the ATL board. By all means defend the slacker above, as if his or her post was not completely offensive to the OP and her question.

[Anonymous]

to think that sophisticated law practices do not ever do work with govt agencies is really ignorant, especially in the DC area #1. and #2, more importantly, anyone who disparages someone as a "contract attorney" is a jerk. Nothing could be worse than to be a temporary attorney doing soul-less doc review all day for hourly wages and no benefits. so 20:22 sounds horrible.

Nobody in BigLaw is a slacker, but I'm sure plenty would like to work more sane hours. That isnt slacking, that is being normal.

[Anonymous]

Yes, but the slacker wants to work an hour or two a day and goof off the rest of the time with full pay. That is hardly normal. It's also a horribly offensive view of government lawyers.

[Anonymous]

20:22 here. OK, so maybe the contract attorney remark was not very nice. Too much time on ATL, I guess, where that is a commonly used insult (like douchebag). However, I was reacting to 18:02's claim that s/he has such regular and intimate dealings with attorneys from all five of these agencies - DOJ, EPA, HUD, TSA and GSA - to have a basis for the view that none of them (except DOJ) work more than an hour or two a day and never return phone calls in less than a week. Knowling CERCLA regs well enough to advise a landlord does not require extensive interactions with EPA's attorneys, so I don't buy the prior poster's explanation at all. I was not saying real estate groups never deal with government agencies; that depends I think on where your firm is based.

So either 18:02 is not what s/he claims to be (hence, my insult), or is deliberately casting insults on a whole bunch of government attorneys without having any basis to do so. If s/he actually does work in a large well-known firm, I suspect s/he is very junior.

What bugged me the most was the "Hey, hey, OP, SOO sorry about your layoff but I still have my big salary firm job and want your government spot, too, because I frankly have no interest in working hard" quality of the post. OP was a sixth year associate who was likely busting her butt. I don't agree there are no slackers in BigLaw, but they usually flunk out by year 3. Everyone I know personally who has lost their job in the last two years at firms and at investment banks were quality people trying very hard. Not people who claim to be good BSers, as I believe 18:02 put it, who are unapologetic about their desire to work barely at all.

I don't know the OP at all, but I suspect she was devastated about being laid off but tried to make an opportunity out of it. Now she is trying to get back into the BigLaw rat race. I hope she has every success.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, one additional suggestion, focus on networking, find someone who can get your resume in front of a decision maker at the agency that you are interested in or at least put in a good word for you. Get back in touch with your alumni network (you did not state the name of your law school, but it is likely that most powerful network that you have) and see if you can get any leads there.


If possible, talk to people at your old firm to see if they have any connections at the agency. You may also want to consider talking to a career counsellor they not only give tips but can provide contacts.

Good luck

P.S. I moved to a federal agency back in June and love it.

I agree with this advice about networking -- especially the point about talking with people at your old firm. In my experience THAT's your most powerful network, especially if your firm maintains an on-line database of alums. I know my former firm has an alumni portal right on the website, and you can search by city. (To truly search my firm's network well -- sorting by current employer/agency -- you need to be a current employee, so I've had my friends who are still there run some searches.) Anyway, if you haven't done so already, check with your firm about their alumni networking resources. Each firm has things set up differently. And above all else, don't be shy about contacting firm alumns in various agencies, even if you don't know them and never overlapped with them at the firm. In my experience, people are very generous with their time and help.

Finally, I agree that a career counselor could be useful. There are even coaches in the DC area who specialize in working with lawyers and understand the unique quirks of the profession. It's pricey but even a few hours of consulting help can be very helpful. Try Google for names.

Good luck!

OP, if you are interested I can privide a reccomendation for a counsellor. I am the poster who switch to a govt agency a few months ago.

13:55 here - could you post?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how funny. you think all lawyers like to work their ass off? most people do not, and that includes lawyers. I had 1400 SATs but crappy grades in high school, then the great LSATs but crappy grades in college. I actually did by far the best gradewise in law school since the grade is all based on one test (usually) and that is my one skill at life other than being a personable bs'er- being a quick read and an amazing test taker. which is how i got the high paying job i have now.

my extensive interaction with govt attorneys from most agencies other than DOJ (say EPA, HUD, GSA, TSA, etc.) is that they return calls maybe once a week if ever, they never answer their phone, are on vacation all the time (seemingly), and expect you to do their work for them (i.e., draft the document, even if a fed form). now that sounds like I am insulting them but I am not. I WANT THAT! by the way, I interned at a govt agency when i was in law school and nobody did anything all day from what I could tell. it was amazing. compare that to where I am now (big international law firm) where everyone is constantly running around scared shitless until 9pm every night. f it.

The problem is that even if you want a job where you only have to work for 1-2 hours a day but earn a full-time salary, you will not find that in the government. It's not about whether you like to slack off or work your ass off....You will be fired, even in the government, if you only work 1-2 hours a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:is EVERYONE on these forums an attorney from a top school?

yes. welcome to DC.

Now, now...don't forgot about those of us in the defense industry who are busily building and selling $2000 toilet seats.

[Anonymous]

For the lazy real estate law person, maybe you should work for a real estate company? Brokers can get away with slacking off all day as long as they bring in commissions. Many of the big brokerage firms have GSA groups too. Of course, I don't think the benefits are as good as at the GSA, and since you don't have good experience, they might actually ask you to work. The State Dept. has a large real estate area - they take care of all those embassies. You may even get to do a bit of travelling (to Iran, perhaps?).