To the parents in "good schools"

[Anonymous]

I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

Honestly what you describe is what I was looking for. Sounds like your teachers aren’t teaching to the test, and are creating a real curriculum. That sounds good to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As an UMC family in a low-rated FCPS pyramid, people often ask why we don’t move for “better” schools. They imply that we’re doing our kids a disservice by not sending them to the higher SES school.

My children are performing well in school, seem happy and well-adjusted, and they have friends from all walks of life. They know that some families have to work very hard for the little that they have. I like that my kids don’t view our UMC life as the norm, and they aren’t exposed to the materialism that I’ve heard about at other schools.

With few exceptions, my children have had excellent teachers. While our schools have a harder time recruiting parent volunteers and providing a lot of extras, the teachers go the extra mile to help students achieve.

As they move on to high school, I think my children will be able to “try on” more activities than they would be able to at a more competitive school. That’s a plus to me.

This is exactly us, too, except that we're in MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

If you're at Haycock, I'm sorry to say that you ran off a good principal by being a bad PTA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

Honestly what you describe is what I was looking for. Sounds like your teachers aren’t teaching to the test, and are creating a real curriculum. That sounds good to me.

Just an FYI. The ECART is a pretest for the SOL. So, yeah. When we get worksheets or other requests to supplement it's because they are teaching to the test. So, no. It's not like they are creating anything new. They are expecting us to supplement to either manage the acceleration so they don't have to (AAP) or because heaven forbid they have a large enough cohort to worry about SOLs.

And when I ask in conferences what different strategies they are using for my kids to get the content the answer is always the same. The pacing guide. If your kid isn't picking it up, then it's on you. Not them. I wish my kids had a teacher like OP, fwiw.

But we are where we are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

If you're at Haycock, I'm sorry to say that you ran off a good principal by being a bad PTA.

We aren't Haycock. Demographically, it's similar, but our old principal bounced around until the PTA got involved. He has some made up job now like "special projects" or something in central office.

[Anonymous]

This is why when we looked for a school I especially looked at comparisons in DRA scores from 1st grade and 2nd grade rather than SOL pass rates. If a school consistently has good DRA scores in 1st grade and similarly good in 2nd, you know you're just getting a cohort of well-educated, engaged families who are able to support reading in English, nothing special pedagogically. But if a school shows a lot of movement in 2nd grade scores where many more are rating end of grade level/above grade level when it was more mixed in 1st grade it suggests the teachers are effective. So I looked for overall strong performance and solid change there (and not just from below to okay, but also from okay to above). For DRA I always expect some not to be at grade level in 2nd grade due to expected proportions of dyslexia needing a bit more time (you can check on later SOL scores by subgroup to see how well they handle that). The differences between ES are eye-opening when you use this lens as opposed to something like SOL pass rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

Honestly what you describe is what I was looking for. Sounds like your teachers aren’t teaching to the test, and are creating a real curriculum. That sounds good to me.

This is the other reason why "good schools" aren't making sure kids are learning. That would be too old fashioned for many parents in good schools so it's just easier especially in elementary to have kids work on creative projects with no set measured goal and if they don't understand basics, the teachers and principals can just say, "well so and so was able to get this, so perhaps it's your child or you". It's never about the actual child's needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An equitable distribution of poverty whenever possible will ensure nobody will be able to coast all year.

yes that would be bad for the normal students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An equitable distribution of poverty whenever possible will ensure nobody will be able to coast all year.

yes that would be bad for the normal students

Actually the opposite. Normal student would be pushed since the expectations would be for the teacher to push all of the kids to their potential. My kids' school is sort of the opposite. AAP kids get pushed. SPED kids get services. But my normal kids are in huge classes and the teacher pulls the same crap other people pointed out here. We have to supplement. It sucks.

[Anonymous]

I partly agree with this. I have a kid at TJ, and the math department teachers generally suck. So we use tutoring. To get Bs. And one semester, a C+. And yet, my kid is learning something. Math is not the subject he is at TJ for. And by TJ standards he’s a weak math student. And yet, at the end of sophomore year, got an 800 on the SAT math II, and a 780 (1 missed question) on the regular SAT math. Perfect PSAT Math sophomore year.

Since the math teacher don’t get a lot of credit on this, I have to think some combo of great peer group and very high expectations/ hard work/ the requirement from homework through the test to apply math in novel situations.

Even in the best school some teachers are duds (but not all: my kid has had uniformly excellent English and history, and excellent bio and physics, but not Chem). And parent participation plays s huge role. But so does peer group, and the expectations of teachers, peers, parents and the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why but my point seems to be falling flat here.

Yes, the parents will pick up the slack. Yes, they will send materials, money or supplement. My school's attitude is always to push to the parents. A kid needs speech. Tell the parents and they'll get a private eval and services. A kid has ADHD issues possibly? No, we don't do Kid Watch if a kid is going well and meeting standards. Mom and Dad will step in.

When I worked in a Title I school, we were all about getting the kids the supports they needed. Now, it's the opposite.

And the kids doing well? Needing extensions? Well... (to semi-out myself) that's the whole AAP push. If you want that service, you better qualify. Otherwise, it's more of the same.

I love teaching. I love working less and getting outstanding reviews. But there is a part of me that thinks we are doing everything wrong.

You aren’t going to to get much out of this bunch. They’ve got too much personal
Investment in their purchased pyramid. They simply won’t hear this.

I think this is a valid point. I feel for OP, but she's not going to get anywhere or convince people that these good schools might need improvement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I partly agree with this. I have a kid at TJ, and the math department teachers generally suck. So we use tutoring. To get Bs. And one semester, a C+. And yet, my kid is learning something. Math is not the subject he is at TJ for. And by TJ standards he’s a weak math student. And yet, at the end of sophomore year, got an 800 on the SAT math II, and a 780 (1 missed question) on the regular SAT math. Perfect PSAT Math sophomore year.

Since the math teacher don’t get a lot of credit on this, I have to think some combo of great peer group and very high expectations/ hard work/ the requirement from homework through the test to apply math in novel situations.

Even in the best school some teachers are duds (but not all: my kid has had uniformly excellent English and history, and excellent bio and physics, but not Chem). And parent participation plays s huge role. But so does peer group, and the expectations of teachers, peers, parents and the school.

PP, um. Didn't you support this? I mean, you paid for the tutoring or did it yourself. You did this. But that teacher at TJ teaching math is just getting by because it's TJ. That's not right. We should expect more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

Honestly what you describe is what I was looking for. Sounds like your teachers aren’t teaching to the test, and are creating a real curriculum. That sounds good to me.

Just an FYI. The ECART is a pretest for the SOL. So, yeah. When we get worksheets or other requests to supplement it's because they are teaching to the test. So, no. It's not like they are creating anything new. They are expecting us to supplement to either manage the acceleration so they don't have to (AAP) or because heaven forbid they have a large enough cohort to worry about SOLs.

And when I ask in conferences what different strategies they are using for my kids to get the content the answer is always the same. The pacing guide. If your kid isn't picking it up, then it's on you. Not them. I wish my kids had a teacher like OP, fwiw.

But we are where we are.

FYI, ECART is a platform on which you can put an SOL pretest. Teachers use ECART for quizzes and tests and other assessments. It isn’t one test, like the SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the issue is that when we as a country started using testing as a measure of what is a good school everything else went out of the window.

I have kids in a "good" school in FCPS. And OP's description is spot on. Yes, during open houses, teachers will say they don't believe in tons of homework, but suddenly when an ECART occurs, we get worksheets and recommendations that we supplement our kids' learning because they aren't getting it in class. When I had a kid in AAP, I got e-mails explaining that the expectation is that he would know all of his times tables before the year started, so I might want to either teach him over the summer or get a tutor. It's frustrating.

While the kids are great peers, I do wonder if there is something to what OP said. Are we complacent? Do we accept our "good" schools, "good" SAT scores, etc. because our property values are tied to this?

One check on all of this has been the PTA. We've had horrible principals literally run back to the Gatehouse because the PTA was able to mobilize. So, there's that. But I do see a lot of what OP is saying to be true. But I wonder...do we even care?

Honestly what you describe is what I was looking for. Sounds like your teachers aren’t teaching to the test, and are creating a real curriculum. That sounds good to me.

Just an FYI. The ECART is a pretest for the SOL. So, yeah. When we get worksheets or other requests to supplement it's because they are teaching to the test. So, no. It's not like they are creating anything new. They are expecting us to supplement to either manage the acceleration so they don't have to (AAP) or because heaven forbid they have a large enough cohort to worry about SOLs.

And when I ask in conferences what different strategies they are using for my kids to get the content the answer is always the same. The pacing guide. If your kid isn't picking it up, then it's on you. Not them. I wish my kids had a teacher like OP, fwiw.

But we are where we are.

FYI, ECART is a platform on which you can put an SOL pretest. Teachers use ECART for quizzes and tests and other assessments. It isn’t one test, like the SOL.

Isn’t that basically what pp said?