Shorter Sons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taller than the boys who grew early? I think this would only be true if the kid had the genetic potential for it.

Yes.

The boys who grow early and hit puberty early (voice changing, early body hair, etc) often finish growing early and tend to be shorter.

We saw this with my brother’s childhood friends. My brother is 6’3” and was middle of the pack in junior high. Two of his very tall elementary/MS friends stopped growing before he started and ended up 5’8.

My oldest son has gigantic feet and hands, but is currently average height almost 13 year old. On the soccer field, there are boys that look like men. We just had an X-ray of his foot for an injury and the orthopedist said his growth played (we were concerned about a growth plate injury) were still wide open. I assume he’s going to grow into those big appendages. My brother and I also grew an inch in college.

My younger son has been on the small to average side, but I do t think he will be tall which is fine. I assume he will be in The 5’9-5’10 range. But, you just never know. We thought that about my brother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has had armpit hair since elementary (no idea if he has hair down there) but his voice hasn’t changed and he has soft baby skin on his face...no facial hair. Is he “in puberty” or not? He’s not muscular yet but also isn’t a jock at all. He’s always been tall for his age but now he’s 13.5 and 5’7” and many of his friends have caught up or are getting close, while he’s kind of stalled out.

I guess I’m just wondering if he’s in puberty yet. I know he’s still growing because he had a foot injury recently and doc said so.

If he has underarm hair he's at least started puberty, I would think. But you could ask the doctor at his next annual.

[Anonymous]

^ we have always fed all organic food/milk/meat/eggs. We never have done a ton of processed food, no fast food, etc. We have a he ey duty water filter in the house.

My son’s friends that eat a lot of crap all have gone through puberty on the earlier side. It’s hard not to believe it’s not the growth hormones in food, etc causing this earlier puberty in kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has had armpit hair since elementary (no idea if he has hair down there) but his voice hasn’t changed and he has soft baby skin on his face...no facial hair. Is he “in puberty” or not? He’s not muscular yet but also isn’t a jock at all. He’s always been tall for his age but now he’s 13.5 and 5’7” and many of his friends have caught up or are getting close, while he’s kind of stalled out.

I guess I’m just wondering if he’s in puberty yet. I know he’s still growing because he had a foot injury recently and doc said so.

If he has underarm hair he's at least started puberty, I would think. But you could ask the doctor at his next annual.

I had underarm hair in 5th grade (girl) and I didn’t start puberty until end of 7th grade. My oldest has had underarm hair (nothing else) for a few years and zerobother signs. For some kids, they get this hair on the early side but not all the other changes. My husband remembers being a kid with underarm hair earlier, but also did t really grow until 14/15.

[Anonymous]

Make sure he gets enough rest. Growth hormones are generated during sleep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 8th grade son is 4'10" and is the shortest kid by far in the grade (including the girls who are nearly done growing). The boys in his grade are his age and a year older due to redshirting. I remind him of this sometimes when he brings up his height. He has short parents so he is aware that he is not going to be tall. But my cousin's son grew 6 inches one summer in high school (late high school). He now towers over his short parents so genetics can be a funny thing sometimes. My son may be short but he is the coxswain on his rowing team so he is in charge. It has really boosted his confidence to know that he has a lot of control over these giant boys. Their team photos are hysterical. My son is a foot or more shorter than them and they are basically the same age.

Great, so you’re thrilled that your son is able to feel better about being short by seeking out positions of power over others, in this case taller boys. This is just what the world needs.

NP. Calm down. It’s ok for short and tall kids to have leadership positions and, yes, it does help their confidence. Nothing new here.

It was the phrasing that caught my attention. Short men with complexes about being short who seek to make themselves feel bigger by being in control of others are a real social phenomenon. Confidence is a good and great thing, but I felt like PP’s description went beyond that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make sure he gets enough rest. Growth hormones are generated during sleep.

Yep. I thnk my older son's chronic allergies/nasal congestions throughout elementary affected him. We have done almost 2 years of allergy shots and he no longer snores, etc. He used to have very bad nasal congestion. I have heard of kids with big tonsils that had them taken out for health reasons go through suddnen growth spurts as well afterwards.

"When sleep is disrupted in young children, especially those who have yet to finish growing, there can be significant consequences. Growth hormone is secreted during the night during specific sleep stages. Deep, non-REM sleep that occurs early in the night seems especially important for its secretion. This sleep predominates in the first third of the night. If this sleep is disrupted, growth may not occur normally. Children who are affected may begin to fall off their growth curve: for example, if a child was in the 50th percentile by height and weight in early development, the affected child may fall into the 10th percentile over time.

As an example of the impacts of sleep disorders on normal growth, it is known that sleep apnea in children can have profound effects on growth. These children have periodic obstructions in their upper airway that can cause snoring or pauses in their breathing. The body awakens itself into lighter sleep to open the airway and resume normal breathing. As such, deeper sleep may become fragmented and growth hormone secretion may be compromised.

Any sleep disorder that disrupts deep sleep may decrease growth hormone secretion. Moreover, simply not getting enough sleep could have the same effects. Fortunately, children whose sleep apnea is treated undergo a rebound growth spurt. Many will recover to their prior growth trajectory, moving back to their prior percentiles. This suggests that addressing the other conditions that undermine sleep quality, such as restless legs syndrome, may likewise be beneficial."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a med student on pediatric endocrine right now. We see lots of kids like this in clinic. They will do a bone age (xray of the hand) to see if his bone age matches his chronological age. If his bone age is younger than his real age that means more growing time aka the late bloomers. If his bone age and chronological age match he may just be on the shorter side. Boys have their big growth spurts after puberty starts, of in the middle of puberty is when they have their fastest growth velocity which is about 14-15 years for most males. Facial hair and voice changes are later signs of male puberty.

You don't mean to say those are the signs they are near the end of their biggest growth spurt, do you?

I would think that a boy with facial hair is close to the end of his growth spurt, but I'm sure everyone is different.

I mean to say that facial hear and deepened voice occur towards the end of puberty. So after the most rapid growth has occurred typically. They can still grow after getting facial hair/deep voice but the most rapid growth is usually finishing up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The average US man is 5'9". There are a TON of short guys out there. If you are 5'1" and your DH 6'1" is is quite possible he won't get taller than 5'6". And that is OK.

the average american man or average american white man?

as america browns, that number is getting smaller but it isn't really indicative of what median heights are within specific sub groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taller than the boys who grew early? I think this would only be true if the kid had the genetic potential for it.

Yes.

The boys who grow early and hit puberty early (voice changing, early body hair, etc) often finish growing early and tend to be shorter.

We saw this with my brother’s childhood friends. My brother is 6’3” and was middle of the pack in junior high. Two of his very tall elementary/MS friends stopped growing before he started and ended up 5’8.

My oldest son has gigantic feet and hands, but is currently average height almost 13 year old. On the soccer field, there are boys that look like men. We just had an X-ray of his foot for an injury and the orthopedist said his growth played (we were concerned about a growth plate injury) were still wide open. I assume he’s going to grow into those big appendages. My brother and I also grew an inch in college.

My younger son has been on the small to average side, but I do t think he will be tall which is fine. I assume he will be in The 5’9-5’10 range. But, you just never know. We thought that about my brother.

messi was so small when he was young, he needed growth hormones from barcelona. iniesta is like 5'6. aguero is 5'7. n'golo kane is like 5'5.

these are the absolute elite of elite players and are smaller than most high schoolers.

[Anonymous]

Guy here. I'm 6' tall and was one of the shortest kids in my class all the way through middle school. Hit a huge growth spurt 9th/10th grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ we have always fed all organic food/milk/meat/eggs. We never have done a ton of processed food, no fast food, etc. We have a he ey duty water filter in the house.

My son’s friends that eat a lot of crap all have gone through puberty on the earlier side. It’s hard not to believe it’s not the growth hormones in food, etc causing this earlier puberty in kids.

Well, then, what's wrong with you? If you want him to be tall, start feeding him all those crap food! LOL. But, look at all the American Asians, kids a foot taller than their parents, I do think diet has a lot to do with it. Dutch were shorter before WWII and then their economy improved, more milk, more meat, and they are now among the tallest nations in the world. Nutrition does play a part, and if the kids is eating enough, some kids don't eat enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a med student on pediatric endocrine right now. We see lots of kids like this in clinic. They will do a bone age (xray of the hand) to see if his bone age matches his chronological age. If his bone age is younger than his real age that means more growing time aka the late bloomers. If his bone age and chronological age match he may just be on the shorter side. Boys have their big growth spurts after puberty starts, of in the middle of puberty is when they have their fastest growth velocity which is about 14-15 years for most males. Facial hair and voice changes are later signs of male puberty.

You don't mean to say those are the signs they are near the end of their biggest growth spurt, do you?

I would think that a boy with facial hair is close to the end of his growth spurt, but I'm sure everyone is different.

I mean to say that facial hear and deepened voice occur towards the end of puberty. So after the most rapid growth has occurred typically. They can still grow after getting facial hair/deep voice but the most rapid growth is usually finishing up.

For my 13 yr old, this is the first sign of puberty for him. He is a late bloomer and very short. He also just started developing armpit hair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ we have always fed all organic food/milk/meat/eggs. We never have done a ton of processed food, no fast food, etc. We have a he ey duty water filter in the house.

My son’s friends that eat a lot of crap all have gone through puberty on the earlier side. It’s hard not to believe it’s not the growth hormones in food, etc causing this earlier puberty in kids.

Well, then, what's wrong with you? If you want him to be tall, start feeding him all those crap food! LOL. But, look at all the American Asians, kids a foot taller than their parents, I do think diet has a lot to do with it. Dutch were shorter before WWII and then their economy improved, more milk, more meat, and they are now among the tallest nations in the world. Nutrition does play a part, and if the kids is eating enough, some kids don't eat enough.

The organic kid will have puberty at the 'normal' age of yesteryear and ultimately grow taller.

The non-organic kids are thrown into earlier puberty, seem tall for their age until everyone else catches up and rides right past them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a med student on pediatric endocrine right now. We see lots of kids like this in clinic. They will do a bone age (xray of the hand) to see if his bone age matches his chronological age. If his bone age is younger than his real age that means more growing time aka the late bloomers. If his bone age and chronological age match he may just be on the shorter side. Boys have their big growth spurts after puberty starts, of in the middle of puberty is when they have their fastest growth velocity which is about 14-15 years for most males. Facial hair and voice changes are later signs of male puberty.

You don't mean to say those are the signs they are near the end of their biggest growth spurt, do you?

I would think that a boy with facial hair is close to the end of his growth spurt, but I'm sure everyone is different.

I mean to say that facial hear and deepened voice occur towards the end of puberty. So after the most rapid growth has occurred typically. They can still grow after getting facial hair/deep voice but the most rapid growth is usually finishing up.

I wonder what exactly describes "deepened voice"? For example my DS's voice started to change noticeably this summer, it's deeper, definitely less child-like, but not that of an adult male yet. He hasn't had his peak height growth yet, he's followed by a pediatric endocrinologist for constitutional delay and the dr. expects him to hit his peak height velocity this upcoming year (bone age is still behind chronological age, plenty of room shown in his growth plates).

So perhaps "deep voice" means the voice they'll end up with as an adult, rather than the start of the voice deepening?