How much college debt does your kid anticipate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was responding to the guy who says he has more than enough money saved for college but thinks pain of debt somehow makes his kid appreciate his place in life better. I think it’s selfish and greedy. It’s so easy to fall into poverty and very hard to fight your way back up to a reasonable level of comfort. A college degree is a keystone towards economic stability. It should not be used by a parent of means as a moral cudgel. Life itself will beat a lesson into almost everyone.

Selfish, greedy, moral cudgeling PP here (and I'm a she not a he). I don't view my approach as a moral cudgel and don't think debt is pain. Debt is a financial tool that most adults use that needs to be learned to managed. In my view, if kids graduate with a little student loan they won't may not as quickly take on too much car loan, or rent an apartment beyond their means. They will more likely develop work-arounds like have roommates at an age when most of their peers will also have college loans. They will likely job hunt a bit more intensely. I hope a bit of debt will help him learn basic financial skills tied to the reality that he will need to fund his life and that I'm not rich enough to ensure he is in perpetuity in the middle/upper middle class. I had similar amounts of student loans for my undergrad and grad school and I didn't see it as an undue burden (and I was a philosophy major so not the most immediate obvious employment!).

And, yes, while we do have enough money saved--we have more than one kid and-- who knows the future--we are not rich--just UMC. Also, it's not like I'm going to let my kids fall into poverty if I am able. Moreover, in my view a debt level of 1/2-1 year's entry level salary paid back over the course of 10 years is more likely to help an educated person avoid poverty than push them into it by establishing the necessary habit of living slightly below your current means.

As for moral cudgeling, I guess I do hope it does give a small sense of appreciation for the experiences of those who don't have all the same initial advantages. I see consequences of the lack of this empathy around me all the time in how people talk about public policy and poverty. How the depth of their own privileges and advantages are invisible to them when they judge others.

Anyway this approach works for us: I have a great relationship with my son. We've talked through this and he thinks it makes sense. We talked about how he could alternately come up with the money--(e.g., working more while in college, going to a cheaper school) if he's uncomfortable with taking on debt. He likes looking at/thinking about financials and seems to like the feeling that we treat him as an adult. He also seems pretty balanced and alert to the ways that he is advantaged by being raised UMC. His closest friends are, for the most part, richer than us, so he really could have developed a different stance.

[Anonymous]

I think we're a responsible family but we have a totally different viewpoint to debt...no mortgage, no car loans, no credit card balances and no college loans. I have no interest in DC being an expert in debt management just cash flow management and savings. We are working on grad school as a family team although it would be lovely if that were employer paid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we're a responsible family but we have a totally different viewpoint to debt...no mortgage, no car loans, no credit card balances and no college loans. I have no interest in DC being an expert in debt management just cash flow management and savings. We are working on grad school as a family team although it would be lovely if that were employer paid!

I'm the moral cudgeling PP above and think this is a fine approach too. But I own a business (actually owned, sold it in December--yea!) and that probably has informed why I make a distinction between debt as a powerful leverage tool for appreciating assets/opportunities (real estate, capital investments, education) that increase your wealth. Thus I'm fine with student loans, mortgages but have never had a car loan nor carry a credit card balance. My son seems to lean entrepreneurial too so I think he'll benefit from this nuanced view of debt. But if you're not a business owner or a CFO it's probably safer to have your approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was responding to the guy who says he has more than enough money saved for college but thinks pain of debt somehow makes his kid appreciate his place in life better. I think it’s selfish and greedy. It’s so easy to fall into poverty and very hard to fight your way back up to a reasonable level of comfort. A college degree is a keystone towards economic stability. It should not be used by a parent of means as a moral cudgel. Life itself will beat a lesson into almost everyone.

Selfish, greedy, moral cudgeling PP here (and I'm a she not a he). I don't view my approach as a moral cudgel and don't think debt is pain. Debt is a financial tool that most adults use that needs to be learned to managed. In my view, if kids graduate with a little student loan they won't may not as quickly take on too much car loan, or rent an apartment beyond their means. They will more likely develop work-arounds like have roommates at an age when most of their peers will also have college loans. They will likely job hunt a bit more intensely. I hope a bit of debt will help him learn basic financial skills tied to the reality that he will need to fund his life and that I'm not rich enough to ensure he is in perpetuity in the middle/upper middle class. I had similar amounts of student loans for my undergrad and grad school and I didn't see it as an undue burden (and I was a philosophy major so not the most immediate obvious employment!).

And, yes, while we do have enough money saved--we have more than one kid and-- who knows the future--we are not rich--just UMC. Also, it's not like I'm going to let my kids fall into poverty if I am able. Moreover, in my view a debt level of 1/2-1 year's entry level salary paid back over the course of 10 years is more likely to help an educated person avoid poverty than push them into it by establishing the necessary habit of living slightly below your current means.

As for moral cudgeling, I guess I do hope it does give a small sense of appreciation for the experiences of those who don't have all the same initial advantages. I see consequences of the lack of this empathy around me all the time in how people talk about public policy and poverty. How the depth of their own privileges and advantages are invisible to them when they judge others.

Anyway this approach works for us: I have a great relationship with my son. We've talked through this and he thinks it makes sense. We talked about how he could alternately come up with the money--(e.g., working more while in college, going to a cheaper school) if he's uncomfortable with taking on debt. He likes looking at/thinking about financials and seems to like the feeling that we treat him as an adult. He also seems pretty balanced and alert to the ways that he is advantaged by being raised UMC. His closest friends are, for the most part, richer than us, so he really could have developed a different stance.

This is similar to what we plan to do for our baby daughter. We'll tell her we'll pay for the equivalent of state school tuition, fees, and books...she's on the hook for living expenses if she decides to go away for college. Renting a room in a house, riding a bike everywhere, eating on a budget are super easy in a college town, and she could cover those low expenses by working. Both my wife and I worked full time while going to college, and it worked for us, although we both had to pay for our own tuition, so we took out loans. Basically we want to make life not too easy for DD, but basically set her up for a potential debt free education, with her chipping in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was responding to the guy who says he has more than enough money saved for college but thinks pain of debt somehow makes his kid appreciate his place in life better. I think it’s selfish and greedy. It’s so easy to fall into poverty and very hard to fight your way back up to a reasonable level of comfort. A college degree is a keystone towards economic stability. It should not be used by a parent of means as a moral cudgel. Life itself will beat a lesson into almost everyone.

Selfish, greedy, moral cudgeling PP here (and I'm a she not a he). I don't view my approach as a moral cudgel and don't think debt is pain. Debt is a financial tool that most adults use that needs to be learned to managed. In my view, if kids graduate with a little student loan they won't may not as quickly take on too much car loan, or rent an apartment beyond their means. They will more likely develop work-arounds like have roommates at an age when most of their peers will also have college loans. They will likely job hunt a bit more intensely. I hope a bit of debt will help him learn basic financial skills tied to the reality that he will need to fund his life and that I'm not rich enough to ensure he is in perpetuity in the middle/upper middle class. I had similar amounts of student loans for my undergrad and grad school and I didn't see it as an undue burden (and I was a philosophy major so not the most immediate obvious employment!).

And, yes, while we do have enough money saved--we have more than one kid and-- who knows the future--we are not rich--just UMC. Also, it's not like I'm going to let my kids fall into poverty if I am able. Moreover, in my view a debt level of 1/2-1 year's entry level salary paid back over the course of 10 years is more likely to help an educated person avoid poverty than push them into it by establishing the necessary habit of living slightly below your current means.

As for moral cudgeling, I guess I do hope it does give a small sense of appreciation for the experiences of those who don't have all the same initial advantages. I see consequences of the lack of this empathy around me all the time in how people talk about public policy and poverty. How the depth of their own privileges and advantages are invisible to them when they judge others.

Anyway this approach works for us: I have a great relationship with my son. We've talked through this and he thinks it makes sense. We talked about how he could alternately come up with the money--(e.g., working more while in college, going to a cheaper school) if he's uncomfortable with taking on debt. He likes looking at/thinking about financials and seems to like the feeling that we treat him as an adult. He also seems pretty balanced and alert to the ways that he is advantaged by being raised UMC. His closest friends are, for the most part, richer than us, so he really could have developed a different stance.

So many words. So bottom line is you don’t want to pay. And your child will appreciate you at some point. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think we're a responsible family but we have a totally different viewpoint to debt...no mortgage, no car loans, no credit card balances and no college loans. I have no interest in DC being an expert in debt management just cash flow management and savings. We are working on grad school as a family team although it would be lovely if that were employer paid!

I'm the moral cudgeling PP above and think this is a fine approach too. But I own a business (actually owned, sold it in December--yea!) and that probably has informed why I make a distinction between debt as a powerful leverage tool for appreciating assets/opportunities (real estate, capital investments, education) that increase your wealth. Thus I'm fine with student loans, mortgages but have never had a car loan nor carry a credit card balance. My son seems to lean entrepreneurial too so I think he'll benefit from this nuanced view of debt. But if you're not a business owner or a CFO it's probably safer to have your approach.

We also own a business and have investment property but treat that and debt positioning differently than personal funds. Probably due to my need to bucket risk differently from non-UMC years. Drives my spouse crazy at times but it's what got us successfully through lean cash flow times. I also could not bear breaking my word about education funding. Congrats on selling your business. Hope that means living the dream!

[Anonymous]

0

We are paying as we go, semester by semester.

DC is in-state and required to have summer job to pay extra expenses.

DC will have to finance grad school. Ride ends at undergrad graduation and we have two more to put through college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So many words. So bottom line is you don’t want to pay. And your child will appreciate you at some point. Got it.

I posted our approach because I imagined people reading all the "my child will graduate with 0 debt" posts feeling cruddy might appreciate seeing an argument from someone who thinks graduating with a little debt is a good thing. You're miles off on the not wanting to pay though--I've just said yes to paying near full freight for a private school which is going to cost over 200k for 4 years when our plan for our children all along was that we would pay in-state tuition/expenses--anything more was on them. He got into his "dream school" and I was proud of him--and we are flush from selling our main business. And, ugh, I'm a sucker. Though you totally have me on the wordy thing . New retiree phenomenon-- good thing I'm starting a non-profit and will be busy again.

[Anonymous]

My kids are little, but my approach will be to try to pay for as much as I can for each of them. They might also need to take out loans. But I'd plan to help them pay it off if we don't have all the money upfront. So they'll have a budget and will be encouraged to go to state school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think education is the parents responsible as long as it's feasible. Saddling your offspring with debt before they are employed is a recipe for hardship the rest of their lives.

Statements like this just show how out of touch this area is with the rest of the world. For 99% of the country this is just life. It’s unavoidable. Privilege is right.

[Anonymous]

20K from an Ivy

[Anonymous]

I graduated in 1983 with 10 grand in debt. It had 3 percent interest and I paid it off in 10 years.

That was doable. It would be about 25 grand today after inflation. I wouldn't want my kid to have anymore than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$40K. My ex husband and I were unable to save a lot of money for college. She goes to a flagship that costs about $28K year. We warned her, but it was her decision.

You warned her about what?

The debt...?

You (parents) didn't save any? Poor kid.

We saved some but not enough to fund all of a college education. Between a divorce, a yearlong battle with breast cancer, several years spent out of the workforce...the list goes on...there was often barely enough for me to pay the mortgage and put food on the table, let alone put money in a college account.

I know, my poor kid. Probably should've just found a new mom, eh?

You sound like a great Mom that taught your daughter grit ! And throughout her life she will be grateful for your example as it will provide her the strength she needs when life gets hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$40K. My ex husband and I were unable to save a lot of money for college. She goes to a flagship that costs about $28K year. We warned her, but it was her decision.

You warned her about what?

The debt...?

You (parents) didn't save any? Poor kid.

We saved some but not enough to fund all of a college education. Between a divorce, a yearlong battle with breast cancer, several years spent out of the workforce...the list goes on...there was often barely enough for me to pay the mortgage and put food on the table, let alone put money in a college account.

I know, my poor kid. Probably should've just found a new mom, eh?

Your attitude is lousy. Like another poster said, why did you expect her to do? She went to a state college. Hopefully she can be a better mom than you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:$40K. My ex husband and I were unable to save a lot of money for college. She goes to a flagship that costs about $28K year. We warned her, but it was her decision.

You warned her about what?

The debt...?

You (parents) didn't save any? Poor kid.

We saved some but not enough to fund all of a college education. Between a divorce, a yearlong battle with breast cancer, several years spent out of the workforce...the list goes on...there was often barely enough for me to pay the mortgage and put food on the table, let alone put money in a college account.

I know, my poor kid. Probably should've just found a new mom, eh?

Your attitude is lousy. Like another poster said, why did you expect her to do? She went to a state college. Hopefully she can be a better mom than you.

PP, I don't like you. Was there a need to chime in just to berate this woman who was telling you about her own challenges?