Is it illegal for public libraries to ban homeless and drug addicts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To my knowledge, the public is generally allowed in public places. Of the people, by the people, for the people etc etc etc.

Except not really - DC is full of public buildings that are not overrun with homeless people and drug addicts. So either these buildings do in fact kick out those types, or the homeless and drug addicts are not so much looking for a place to escape the cold, as they are looking for a place to do other activities. Libraries were created for a specific purpose. "Public" does not mean "open for use by anybody for any reason". Can a homeless person use a library to read books, apply for jobs or research housing options? Of course, that's what it is for. But when they start using the library to masturbate or shoot up or just loiter, that is not ok, and they should be banned. Just like suburban kids who use the library to hook up, or smoke, or whatever, should also be banned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To my knowledge, the public is generally allowed in public places. Of the people, by the people, for the people etc etc etc.

Except not really - DC is full of public buildings that are not overrun with homeless people and drug addicts. So either these buildings do in fact kick out those types, or the homeless and drug addicts are not so much looking for a place to escape the cold, as they are looking for a place to do other activities. Libraries were created for a specific purpose. "Public" does not mean "open for use by anybody for any reason". Can a homeless person use a library to read books, apply for jobs or research housing options? Of course, that's what it is for. But when they start using the library to masturbate or shoot up or just loiter, that is not ok, and they should be banned. Just like suburban kids who use the library to hook up, or smoke, or whatever, should also be banned.

These activities you mention are banned by the libraries and it doesn't matter who is doing them. Police absolutely can and should be called if it's happening. Except loitering. People can hang out at the library if they want and it's not loitering. Still, homeless people cannot and should not be banned from the library.

[Anonymous]

We go to certain libraries in MoCo because they are not easily accessible by public transportation or not near a downtown area (like Bethesda). Much less of an issue there.

[Anonymous]

As long as they're not bothering people or doing anything illegal, who cares?

Lord knows there are lots of prescription drug and alcohol addicted parents. Just because they're homeless or have a drug addiction that is "street" rather than prescription, it doesn't make them worse than you.

If they're looking up porn, causing a disturbance, or engaging in illicit activities on site, than of course that's a problem - as it would be for any other patron.

[Anonymous]

Rockville library does not allow sleeping which seems like it helps. I do see suitcases on occasion but everyone is doing their own things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another issue is that many are sexual predators. I remember when I was a teen, I had a homeless man try to grope me in the library and then a different man kept exposing himself to me and my 2 friends when we were working on a group project. Even now when i take my toddler to classes, there are creepers who watch the kids. These men have no children.

I don't like libraries providing internet at all. I think people take advantage of it and I think libraries should stick to books and research. If they want to keep providing computers and internet, they should request a library card number before allowing you on the computer. That way, the browser history could be more tracked too.

+1. Get rid of the computers which would solve half of the problem. If they need to use the computer for personal stuff (or looking up drugs and porn as I have witnessed at my local library) let them do that at the homeless shelter and not around kids.

Yeah, great idea. So then the kids with no computers at home couldn't do research on the computer. So then the unemployed person couldn't apply for jobs online, as is often the only way to do so. All so that the homeless person can't watch porn.

Please. This is a solution of fighting fire with napalm. Like PP said, you need a library card to login to the internet (which, of course, are fully available to everyone, and should be). At my library (inner city in a major US metro area), the computers are all in a very public place, some are reserved for children and teens, all have time limits. I've never seen anyone watching porn. And how do you "look up drugs?"

You look up how to grow drugs and how to make them in your kitchen. I've personally seen "patrons" looking up both scenarios. As for the poor kids who need to do research, this is laughable. I have a library walking distance from my house and in the six years I have been going there I have never seen the kids on computers working on anything remotely educational. They play video games all afternoon and the librarians act as babysitters. There are no time limits. The problem I see is that the libraries are getting stuck filling the space of rec center, homeless shelter, babysitter, job center, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another issue is that many are sexual predators. I remember when I was a teen, I had a homeless man try to grope me in the library and then a different man kept exposing himself to me and my 2 friends when we were working on a group project. Even now when i take my toddler to classes, there are creepers who watch the kids. These men have no children.

I don't like libraries providing internet at all. I think people take advantage of it and I think libraries should stick to books and research. If they want to keep providing computers and internet, they should request a library card number before allowing you on the computer. That way, the browser history could be more tracked too.

+1. Get rid of the computers which would solve half of the problem. If they need to use the computer for personal stuff (or looking up drugs and porn as I have witnessed at my local library) let them do that at the homeless shelter and not around kids.

Yeah, great idea. So then the kids with no computers at home couldn't do research on the computer. So then the unemployed person couldn't apply for jobs online, as is often the only way to do so. All so that the homeless person can't watch porn.

Please. This is a solution of fighting fire with napalm. Like PP said, you need a library card to login to the internet (which, of course, are fully available to everyone, and should be). At my library (inner city in a major US metro area), the computers are all in a very public place, some are reserved for children and teens, all have time limits. I've never seen anyone watching porn. And how do you "look up drugs?"

You look up how to grow drugs and how to make them in your kitchen. I've personally seen "patrons" looking up both scenarios. As for the poor kids who need to do research, this is laughable. I have a library walking distance from my house and in the six years I have been going there I have never seen the kids on computers working on anything remotely educational. They play video games all afternoon and the librarians act as babysitters. There are no time limits. The problem I see is that the libraries are getting stuck filling the space of rec center, homeless shelter, babysitter, job center, etc.

I agree. "Rec center" is what's missing in most cities. My city has lots of senior centers ($10 a month or $50 a year), but there's nothing for kids or teens.

I'm not anti homeless, but the couches and cushioned chairs at my library smell so strongly that no one wants to sit there anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its a real problem, and its really not fair to library staff, who were educated to work in a library and often love what they do. My mom worked in an urban library and talked about how often and awful it was to have to deal with people who would view porn on the computers, use drugs, etc. All those who have no issue with this, or say its because they have no place else to go, are you advocating for the lobbies in your buildings to be open to the homeless? Those are safe warm spaces where homeless could hang out during the day. What about empty conference rooms at your offices - you could certainly invite homeless people to use those. Because unless you are taking steps to invite the homeless into your workplace, you are a hypocrite. Library employees have the right to a safe and orderly space where they can do the job they are paid to do, just like you do.

Agreed! Why in this country are we increasingly asking teachers and librarians to deal with the consequences of our failing mental health system? I'm guessing no one becomes a librarian to administer Naloxone or break up fights between homeless addicts.

It was a dying profession 20 years go. Maybe librarians are reinventing the field and making themselves relevant again. I used to work as a part-time library assistant in a tiny library in a rich Boston suburb. We didn't have the homeless wondering in (too long a walk from Boston proper), but we did have shelter crowd brought in every week or so. Long story short, I buy my books

Am I the only person who finds this reply ridiculous?

What is ridiculous about it?

Librarians are "reinventing the field" and "making themselves relevant again" by being expected to administer Naloxone?

[Anonymous]

I’m glad the homeless have a warm place to go during the day. However, it made me, a female, feel unsafe in certain sections of the library as I went in search of books. More than once, I ended up in a corner or library nook and discovered 4-5 homeless men staring at me and somewhat blocking my exit, and no one else around. I stopped going to the library after that. (And didn’t have a car to visit other libraries.) I should be able to feel safe in a library.

[Anonymous]

Filthy scum ought to be banned from the library. There is a homeless shelter right next to the Reston library and they are always pissing outside, bathing themselves in the restroom, playing games on the computers, and generally stinking up the place.

[Anonymous]

Could library administration purposely be catering to homeless so they can inflate their usage data and request more funding? Or is there a real risk of lawsuit if you ban homeless?

For those of you saying the homeless don't bother you, you may change your tune if you bring home bedbugs or lice infestation. Enjoy the bites, doctor visit and $1,500 bill.

Or how will you feel after one of them exposes themselves to you or your child? Or worse. In the NYT comment section subscribers posted about readers being attacked and stabbed by mentally unstable. Even librarians said they refuse to use public libraries!

[Anonymous]

If you want to feel safe at the library, get in your car, and drive to an exurb.
You love your walkable, transit oriented neighborhood? So do homeless derelicts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you want to feel safe at the library, get in your car, and drive to an exurb.
You love your walkable, transit oriented neighborhood? So do homeless derelicts.

I have never felt unsafe at nay library in Alexandria, the main library in Arlington (the one in Va Square) or the Shirlington library.

So I am not sure what you are talking about. (I did have an issue when the kids program at Shirlington was so loud it was hard for me to focus on reading).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its a real problem, and its really not fair to library staff, who were educated to work in a library and often love what they do. My mom worked in an urban library and talked about how often and awful it was to have to deal with people who would view porn on the computers, use drugs, etc. All those who have no issue with this, or say its because they have no place else to go, are you advocating for the lobbies in your buildings to be open to the homeless? Those are safe warm spaces where homeless could hang out during the day. What about empty conference rooms at your offices - you could certainly invite homeless people to use those. Because unless you are taking steps to invite the homeless into your workplace, you are a hypocrite. Library employees have the right to a safe and orderly space where they can do the job they are paid to do, just like you do.

This is 100% true.

- partner of a DCPL librarian

[Anonymous]

I like how lawmakers won't make it illegal for homeless to loiter all day in libraries, but you don't see them opening the courthouses, state buildings and other public buildings to the homeless. The courthouse has a great cafeteria and nice bathrooms, why not let the homeless use them??