Validate my view that long-term renting is a valid lifestyle choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I loved renting but there were downsides. The rising rent and needing to move if lease isn’t renewed. I rented SFHs and townhouses that we’re usually owned by individuals so twice was told my lease want being renewed because they were selling. I can’t handle the instability anymore now that I have kids. I need to know that I’ll be staying in my school district and like knowing how much mortgage is.

Not AT ALL what OP is talking about. This is why rent vs. buy discussions are usually so banal, because they rarely compare apples to apples. If the choice is to rent a luxury apartment or buy a luxury condo, then it makes no sense to bring random SFH rentals into the equation.

Also, you must not be in DC. DC tenant laws protect renters from having the property sold out from under them. DC actually has some of the strongest tenant laws in the country, which is why I will never be a landlord here. Stick to the burbs if you want the ability to screw over your tenants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a renter by necessity since I've moved around so much for work, now staying in the DC area for the long term and wondering this myself. I'm happy enough renting and can't really afford a townhome or SFH with the commute I want here currently, suspicious of condos as not much of an improvement on renting financially or in quality of life terms, but concerned that rents are going to rise faster over time than my salary while home prices also rise faster than my savings ability. I'm really not aure what the right answer is, keep renting for the lifestyle or buy somewhere far out and hate it for the sake of security.

Here’s the problem - you’re living in an area you can’t afford. You say you can’t afford to own with the commute you want. But farther out is where you should probably be living given your financials. Yes, rents will keep going up over time and eventually you’ll be a renter FOR LIFE. If you want to be financially responsible, you should rent a cheaper place farther out and sock away money.

NP.

I strongly disagree with your premise.

I live in a super-HCOL city and we choose to rent towards the center since we can't afford the down payment to own. Plus we move around a lot. We ARE saving and arguably more so as we don't have to worry about expensive repairs or renovations. Obviously we could save more if we accepted longer commutes, but we have young kids and our time with them is precious. We also value walkability and don't currently own a car.

We are approaching 40 and have never owned and have no plans to move to a cheaper city because that's where the lucrative job opportunities are. We talk about buying a "dream home" at some point once we decide where that would be.

So you’re leasing the more expensive car because you can’t afford to buy it. You can’t afford to buy because you are spending too much on rent to save up a downpayment! If you can’t save up a downpayment, you aren’t really saving by renting. You’re living beyond your means. I did the same thing for three years - rented a nice apartment. Looking back I realize I couldn’t really afford it. I should have been living in a smaller apartment or less expensive neighborhood. If the only way you can live in a neighborhood is to rent - you can’t afford it! Just like if the only way you can buy a 5 series is to lease it...you can’t afford it.

Fwiw I also don’t drive a car around and value walkabikity.

What’s an S-series? A car is totally different than a home.

We are saving, just not specifically for a downpayment because the buying is not the goal. Our goal is to enjoy where we live and have a good work-life balance. We will have enough for a down payment, maybe even a whole house, when we are ready.

[Anonymous]

OP, I want to be with you, but everything you describe, can be had in a condo. We have many of the amenities you and many others have, we live in a great neighborhood with little commute. About 25% are renters, most people live in the units they own. I can put a request to fix the toilet in the morning and it's fixed by the time I get home. We also have maintenance living in the building.
People have adds up asking to rent in the building, so no, it's not hard to rent it out in case I have to move for work. Parking in garage and coming up takes a minute max. No dogs/cats which I like, but I'm sure you can get a building that allows dogs. We have heated pool, store, library, drycleaners, sauna, gym. Front door guys will even bring your packages to your door. We have 24/7 security and nobody had blasted their music or done construction in the middle of the night. We also don't live in a shoe box.
Our PITI and HOA are about $2100. Renting the same place is about $1900-$2200.
In condo building with maintenance on site you don't worry about fixing anything. Appliances are installed for you and they die at the same rate they die in a rental. In 4 years, we have changed out the toilet and garbage disposal. That's all the maintenance we've done since moving here.
We also put down only $25k-should'nt be hard if you can afford $3k in rent.
If you look hard, you can find a place that gives you all you have now, they just call them condos and you have a choice of renting or buying. You can even rent yours out since you like renting so much and rent one on another floor.

[Anonymous]

You're OK, OP. Renting or buying, there is more to cost than money. There are psychic costs -- the costs of added stress or losses to quality of life from either choice. Put another way, as was mentioned above, there is more to life than money. You seem to be balancing this concerns well.

[Anonymous]

Read your post again and all you wan we really have for about $1000 less. The only difference is the location in the city. You must be living very close to work and that's the $1000. Our HOAs on a huge 1-bedroom (in NW 980-1045 sq ft) are about $830-$900 a month. That's a lot, I'll give you that, but with mortgage and taxes, it totals what it would rent for.
Renovations? The place needs to be renovated less often than a rental. You are the one taking care of your place vs renters.
I have lived in a house and don't really care for it either.
Rent away, but you can't make it sound like you have something that you can't have in a condo.
We have several families in the building who let their kids and grand-kids live at their places when they go south for winter. For relatives, nobody needs to ask permission to sub. We also haven't hit the rental cap some condos impose since most people buy for living here and not for renting it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're OK, OP. Renting or buying, there is more to cost than money. There are psychic costs -- the costs of added stress or losses to quality of life from either choice. Put another way, as was mentioned above, there is more to life than money. You seem to be balancing this concerns well.

Im sure you mean psychological benefits.

This does weigh huge. Im dead opposite the OP. I paid my house off in 8 years. This was for the psychological return. I love owing my home outright and only having to pay taxes which are $650/no. Our FA was not in support due to market returns, but wow, do I love the feeling of having very low housing costs in a great neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a renter by necessity since I've moved around so much for work, now staying in the DC area for the long term and wondering this myself. I'm happy enough renting and can't really afford a townhome or SFH with the commute I want here currently, suspicious of condos as not much of an improvement on renting financially or in quality of life terms, but concerned that rents are going to rise faster over time than my salary while home prices also rise faster than my savings ability. I'm really not aure what the right answer is, keep renting for the lifestyle or buy somewhere far out and hate it for the sake of security.

Here’s the problem - you’re living in an area you can’t afford. You say you can’t afford to own with the commute you want. But farther out is where you should probably be living given your financials. Yes, rents will keep going up over time and eventually you’ll be a renter FOR LIFE. If you want to be financially responsible, you should rent a cheaper place farther out and sock away money.

NP.

I strongly disagree with your premise.

I live in a super-HCOL city and we choose to rent towards the center since we can't afford the down payment to own. Plus we move around a lot. We ARE saving and arguably more so as we don't have to worry about expensive repairs or renovations. Obviously we could save more if we accepted longer commutes, but we have young kids and our time with them is precious. We also value walkability and don't currently own a car.

We are approaching 40 and have never owned and have no plans to move to a cheaper city because that's where the lucrative job opportunities are. We talk about buying a "dream home" at some point once we decide where that would be.

So you’re leasing the more expensive car because you can’t afford to buy it. You can’t afford to buy because you are spending too much on rent to save up a downpayment! If you can’t save up a downpayment, you aren’t really saving by renting. You’re living beyond your means. I did the same thing for three years - rented a nice apartment. Looking back I realize I couldn’t really afford it. I should have been living in a smaller apartment or less expensive neighborhood. If the only way you can live in a neighborhood is to rent - you can’t afford it! Just like if the only way you can buy a 5 series is to lease it...you can’t afford it.

Fwiw I also don’t drive a car around and value walkabikity.

What’s an S-series? A car is totally different than a home.

We are saving, just not specifically for a downpayment because the buying is not the goal. Our goal is to enjoy where we live and have a good work-life balance. We will have enough for a down payment, maybe even a whole house, when we are ready.

a 5 series is a car. In your last post, you said you can’t afford the downpayment. Now you’re saying you will be able to. Ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Taking elevators to your place and parking takes up so much time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I want to be with you, but everything you describe, can be had in a condo. We have many of the amenities you and many others have, we live in a great neighborhood with little commute. About 25% are renters, most people live in the units they own. I can put a request to fix the toilet in the morning and it's fixed by the time I get home. We also have maintenance living in the building.
People have adds up asking to rent in the building, so no, it's not hard to rent it out in case I have to move for work. Parking in garage and coming up takes a minute max. No dogs/cats which I like, but I'm sure you can get a building that allows dogs. We have heated pool, store, library, drycleaners, sauna, gym. Front door guys will even bring your packages to your door. We have 24/7 security and nobody had blasted their music or done construction in the middle of the night. We also don't live in a shoe box.
Our PITI and HOA are about $2100. Renting the same place is about $1900-$2200.
In condo building with maintenance on site you don't worry about fixing anything. Appliances are installed for you and they die at the same rate they die in a rental. In 4 years, we have changed out the toilet and garbage disposal. That's all the maintenance we've done since moving here.
We also put down only $25k-should'nt be hard if you can afford $3k in rent.
If you look hard, you can find a place that gives you all you have now, they just call them condos and you have a choice of renting or buying. You can even rent yours out since you like renting so much and rent one on another floor.

Sounds like a great deal! Where is this? Any more available?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I want to be with you, but everything you describe, can be had in a condo. We have many of the amenities you and many others have, we live in a great neighborhood with little commute. About 25% are renters, most people live in the units they own. I can put a request to fix the toilet in the morning and it's fixed by the time I get home. We also have maintenance living in the building.
People have adds up asking to rent in the building, so no, it's not hard to rent it out in case I have to move for work. Parking in garage and coming up takes a minute max. No dogs/cats which I like, but I'm sure you can get a building that allows dogs. We have heated pool, store, library, drycleaners, sauna, gym. Front door guys will even bring your packages to your door. We have 24/7 security and nobody had blasted their music or done construction in the middle of the night. We also don't live in a shoe box.
Our PITI and HOA are about $2100. Renting the same place is about $1900-$2200.
In condo building with maintenance on site you don't worry about fixing anything. Appliances are installed for you and they die at the same rate they die in a rental. In 4 years, we have changed out the toilet and garbage disposal. That's all the maintenance we've done since moving here.
We also put down only $25k-should'nt be hard if you can afford $3k in rent.
If you look hard, you can find a place that gives you all you have now, they just call them condos and you have a choice of renting or buying. You can even rent yours out since you like renting so much and rent one on another floor.

Sounds like a great deal! Where is this? Any more available?

Seriously, help a sister out! I'm looking for a full-service condo like this, and the buildings I've seen in DC that include 24-hour concierge, pool -- the works -- are $$$. We're talking 20% down payment and still $4000 a month (once you factor in the fees) for a ONE bedroom. I don't know how good a purchase that would be, as there has to be some ceiling to what people are willing and able to pay for a condo. I think in DC, unlike Manhattan (which has a much greater pool of people able to buy million dollar condos), the people with the means to spend this kind of money would rather just buy the house in Falls Church or whatever. I'd be concerned about the resale value of an apartment that costs $4000 a month.

[Anonymous]

I think owning is better because you eventually pay off the house. It's like when you lease (rent) a car. You never own it so you have to pay forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After owning property for almost a decade, I sold my home and moved into the city. I'm now paying almost $3000 a month for a shoebox in a full-service luxury building. At first it was going to be just a stepping stone until I decided what I wanted to do with the next stage of my life, but I've discovered that I LOVE this lifestyle. No more yard work. No more appliance repairs. No more replacements and renovations. No more responsibility for maintenance of any type. Problem with the plumbing? Put in a maintenance request in the morning, have it fixed by the time I return from work. Want a workout? Take the elevator to the gym instead of working up the willpower to drive to one. Drop dry cleaning off at the front desk in the morning, pick it up in the evening. Never have to worry about packages being stolen off my porch. Pool, dog services, 24-hour concierge...I can go on and on about the conveniences that I use and love.

So now I'm thinking that I want to rent in a building like this for the foreseeable future. The rent is sky high and will only climb, and I can't get the voices out of my head that renting is throwing away money. Even though I've experienced firsthand just how expensive owning can be, and knowing that I hated being a homeowner. I know an alternative is to buy a condo in a full-service building, but I'd ultimately end up paying as much or more as rent with $1000+ condo fees and relatively little equity gain, and be on the hook once again for appliances, renovations, etc.

I just want someone to validate that it's okay to choose a preferred lifestyle as a renter over raw finances when it comes to housing.

I get what you are saying about the gym, dry cleaner, etc. but the bolded items just really don’t come up that often, even in our 25 yo house. We need a repair person maybe 1x a year if that. Full service lawn service is actually very reasonable.

[Anonymous]

Unless I missed it, I didn't see anyone mention the tax deductions (real estate taxes, mortgage interest) in this rent-or-own discussion. When does it make sense to own vs. rent? I personally like renting especially in newer developments, but sometimes wonder the financial wisdom of it.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

I spent my late 20s and early 30s living in an expensive apartment downtown. I loved it for that era of my life, but it wasn't sustainable. The rent kept going up. I couldn't afford to leave a job that largely kept me away from home. The place was flashy and great for parties. Everyone was super impressed, but I eventually concluded that I was throwing money away and that it was not worth living on a treadmill. I had spent a long time paying more than 35% of my salary on rent and in the end had little to show for it, other than some memories of awesome parties.

My spouse and I bought a modest house 10 years ago (for about $400K) in an area not known for being a good school district (but with a reasonable commute to our workplaces in downtown DC) and paid it off a couple of years ago. We had a kid. We have a big backyard for DC to play in and we live in a close-knit community, surrounded by other families with kids. We make about $300K combined, for perspective (I'd guess that most of the families in the neighborhood that we socialize with make about half to 2/3rds of that). Although our house isn't as large and fancy as many of our colleagues' houses and I occasionally wish we had a better space to host political fundraisers, those are fine tradeoffs for having all our other financial goals within reach (early and well-funded retirement, private school and robust 529 for our kid, international vacations, newish cars, ability to switch jobs and/or take time off if we wanted to, etc.). I know we're not rich by DC standards, but we "feel" rich.

Obviously continuing to rent is a valid lifestyle choice, depending on what you prioritize in life, but the prospect of spending the 15-20 years of not paying a mortgage or rent before retirement fills me with joy. My friends who still rent (but also, my friends who are house poor), complain about the things they can't afford and often seem to feel squeezed in a way that I remember once feeling. The private school forum is filled with people complaining about how the middle class and even the upper middle class is priced out of private schools.

You do you, but I'm really glad I no longer rent.