Does Saudi Arabia Permit Churches and Synogogues?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course SA is oppressive & has terrible human rights. They just earlier this year decided to let women drive cars. And that was a big deal. Women, in particular, have virtually no rights or independence in SA.

Then why is Israel the country always criticized for human rights violations? Seems like the Arab countries are worse. From what I've seen, Muslims living in Israel (except the occupied territories) are treated very well. I was there on a Friday, and it was wonderful to see the Muslims worshipping in Old Jerusalem, and then the Jews come out on Friday night to start their day of worship - right in the same place. All peaceful and respectful.

Because anti-semitism is alive and while on the left as well.

Much like sexism makes us find reasons to blame/dismiss women and excuse/believe men, anti-semitism makes us look for any excuse to say the Jews are the cause of any problem that arises wherever they are.

Please look for the thread I plan to open this afternoon, giving a full balance to the Arab-Israeli conflict and the history of the exclusion of Jews from Arab countries, dating back to 1920 and to almost 1 million Jews. I am sick of hearing people attack Israel only with no mention of the horrific treatment Jews experienced from Arab countries as they sought to rid themselves of Jews.

I seriously don't understand how and why people gang up on Israel yet make exemptions for most of the rest of the Middle East's bad behavior- If you really want to discuss lack of women's rights, gay rights, religious rights, racism, torture, brutality, barbaric behavior still going on look to SA, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. It is still the middle ages there. Yet everyone turns away and just keeps casting stones at Israel. It's so back-asswards. Of course there are 2 sides to the story and perhaps Israel has been overreaching, but just on the basis of human rights alone, the Arab world is FAR FAR behind the rest of the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course SA is oppressive & has terrible human rights. They just earlier this year decided to let women drive cars. And that was a big deal. Women, in particular, have virtually no rights or independence in SA.

Then why is Israel the country always criticized for human rights violations? Seems like the Arab countries are worse. From what I've seen, Muslims living in Israel (except the occupied territories) are treated very well. I was there on a Friday, and it was wonderful to see the Muslims worshipping in Old Jerusalem, and then the Jews come out on Friday night to start their day of worship - right in the same place. All peaceful and respectful.

Because anti-semitism is alive and while on the left as well.

Much like sexism makes us find reasons to blame/dismiss women and excuse/believe men, anti-semitism makes us look for any excuse to say the Jews are the cause of any problem that arises wherever they are.

Please look for the thread I plan to open this afternoon, giving a full balance to the Arab-Israeli conflict and the history of the exclusion of Jews from Arab countries, dating back to 1920 and to almost 1 million Jews. I am sick of hearing people attack Israel only with no mention of the horrific treatment Jews experienced from Arab countries as they sought to rid themselves of Jews.

I seriously don't understand how and why people gang up on Israel yet make exemptions for most of the rest of the Middle East's bad behavior- If you really want to discuss lack of women's rights, gay rights, religious rights, racism, torture, brutality, barbaric behavior still going on look to SA, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. It is still the middle ages there. Yet everyone turns away and just keeps casting stones at Israel. It's so back-asswards. Of course there are 2 sides to the story and perhaps Israel has been overreaching, but just on the basis of human rights alone, the Arab world is FAR FAR behind the rest of the world.

PP. In my post above, there was an important auto-correct. I did not mean EXCLUSION of Jews from Arab countries, I meant the outright EXPULSION of them. Horrible treatment of them, and yet....then blame is always solely on Israel. (If you come back to see this, I probably won't get to that thread today. Personal issues, and I don't want to get engrained in a major discussion. Please look for it tomorrow.)

As you note, people are ganging up on Israel for some reason, ignoring far more egregious behavior in the Arab world. And while I agree with you that Israel has overreached as of late, they are not the worst offenders.

[Anonymous]

No, there are not churches in the holy land of Mecca and Medina. Just like there are no mosques at the Vatican.

Also, regarding the culture in KSA, one correction to this thread. The ban on women driving was overturned and soon will be implemented, meaning that women will soon drive. Also, women and men are now allowed to sit together in restaurants and they have even been having coed rock concerts. KSA is modernizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course SA is oppressive & has terrible human rights. They just earlier this year decided to let women drive cars. And that was a big deal. Women, in particular, have virtually no rights or independence in SA.

Then why is Israel the country always criticized for human rights violations? Seems like the Arab countries are worse. From what I've seen, Muslims living in Israel (except the occupied territories) are treated very well. I was there on a Friday, and it was wonderful to see the Muslims worshipping in Old Jerusalem, and then the Jews come out on Friday night to start their day of worship - right in the same place. All peaceful and respectful.

Please explain your logic. Are you saying Israel cannot be criticized as long as there are worse things in the world?

On the subject of Muslims living in Israel, if they are citizens of Israel, then they SHOULD be treated very well. The standard for their treatment isn't "Jews in Muslim countries", it's "Jewish citizens of Israel". Of course, you probably don't want to talk about Israeli absentee property laws that could have easily disenfranchised and impoverished the grandparents of these citizens of Israel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I seriously don't understand how and why people gang up on Israel yet make exemptions for most of the rest of the Middle East's bad behavior- If you really want to discuss lack of women's rights, gay rights, religious rights, racism, torture, brutality, barbaric behavior still going on look to SA, Afghanistan, Iran, etc. It is still the middle ages there. Yet everyone turns away and just keeps casting stones at Israel. It's so back-asswards. Of course there are 2 sides to the story and perhaps Israel has been overreaching, but just on the basis of human rights alone, the Arab world is FAR FAR behind the rest of the world.

PP. In my post above, there was an important auto-correct. I did not mean EXCLUSION of Jews from Arab countries, I meant the outright EXPULSION of them. Horrible treatment of them, and yet....then blame is always solely on Israel. (If you come back to see this, I probably won't get to that thread today. Personal issues, and I don't want to get engrained in a major discussion. Please look for it tomorrow.)

As you note, people are ganging up on Israel for some reason, ignoring far more egregious behavior in the Arab world. And while I agree with you that Israel has overreached as of late, they are not the worst offenders.

The answer to your first question is quite simple - because neither of these countries claim to be special, light to all nations, symbols of democracy and all that jazz. If Israel just admitted that it's just another religiously driven state with all the accoutrements of discrimination, it would be viewed much more positively. But Israel aspires. So it gets the beating because it claims for itself the ideals of which it falls short.

Also, do please explain what the expulsion of Jews has to do with today's Israel. You're saying because Jews were treated poorly in some Muslim countries, Israel is entitled to be similarly nasty to other, unrelated countries?

I also note a delicious irony of close relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, where Jews cannot legally enter or worship, and outright enmity between Israel and Iran, the only country that didn't expel Jews and where there are still Jewish members of parliament. That's just excellent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, there are not churches in the holy land of Mecca and Medina. Just like there are no mosques at the Vatican.

Also, regarding the culture in KSA, one correction to this thread. The ban on women driving was overturned and soon will be implemented, meaning that women will soon drive. Also, women and men are now allowed to sit together in restaurants and they have even been having coed rock concerts. KSA is modernizing.

Don't be ridiculous, there are no churches ANYWHERE in KSA, not just Mecca and Medina. Regarding your stupid comparison to Vatican, you can't put an extra portajohn in Vatican without displacing someone, while Saudi Arabia has millions and millions of acres that can accommodate a dozen hundred churches, synagogues, shamans, temples and whatever else your little heart desires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, there are not churches in the holy land of Mecca and Medina. Just like there are no mosques at the Vatican.

Also, regarding the culture in KSA, one correction to this thread. The ban on women driving was overturned and soon will be implemented, meaning that women will soon drive. Also, women and men are now allowed to sit together in restaurants and they have even been having coed rock concerts. KSA is modernizing.

Stop with the fucking lies! "Rock concerts", if you consider Toby Keith a rock musicians, were played to an all-male audience.

No, unrelated men and women cannot sit together in restaurants.

Fucking liar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course SA is oppressive & has terrible human rights. They just earlier this year decided to let women drive cars. And that was a big deal. Women, in particular, have virtually no rights or independence in SA.

Then why is Israel the country always criticized for human rights violations? Seems like the Arab countries are worse. From what I've seen, Muslims living in Israel (except the occupied territories) are treated very well. I was there on a Friday, and it was wonderful to see the Muslims worshipping in Old Jerusalem, and then the Jews come out on Friday night to start their day of worship - right in the same place. All peaceful and respectful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course SA is oppressive & has terrible human rights. They just earlier this year decided to let women drive cars. And that was a big deal. Women, in particular, have virtually no rights or independence in SA.

Then why is Israel the country always criticized for human rights violations? Seems like the Arab countries are worse. From what I've seen, Muslims living in Israel (except the occupied territories) are treated very well. I was there on a Friday, and it was wonderful to see the Muslims worshipping in Old Jerusalem, and then the Jews come out on Friday night to start their day of worship - right in the same place. All peaceful and respectful.

What's the source for that chart?

[Anonymous]

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/shavuot/.premium-1.596576

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, there are not churches in the holy land of Mecca and Medina. Just like there are no mosques at the Vatican.

Also, regarding the culture in KSA, one correction to this thread. The ban on women driving was overturned and soon will be implemented, meaning that women will soon drive. Also, women and men are now allowed to sit together in restaurants and they have even been having coed rock concerts. KSA is modernizing.

Don't be ridiculous, there are no churches ANYWHERE in KSA, not just Mecca and Medina. Regarding your stupid comparison to Vatican, you can't put an extra portajohn in Vatican without displacing someone, while Saudi Arabia has millions and millions of acres that can accommodate a dozen hundred churches, synagogues, shamans, temples and whatever else your little heart desires.

When reference is made to the “holy land of Mecca and Medina”, the reference is to the entire KSA. Just so you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, there are not churches in the holy land of Mecca and Medina. Just like there are no mosques at the Vatican.

Also, regarding the culture in KSA, one correction to this thread. The ban on women driving was overturned and soon will be implemented, meaning that women will soon drive. Also, women and men are now allowed to sit together in restaurants and they have even been having coed rock concerts. KSA is modernizing.

Don't be ridiculous, there are no churches ANYWHERE in KSA, not just Mecca and Medina. Regarding your stupid comparison to Vatican, you can't put an extra portajohn in Vatican without displacing someone, while Saudi Arabia has millions and millions of acres that can accommodate a dozen hundred churches, synagogues, shamans, temples and whatever else your little heart desires.

When reference is made to the “holy land of Mecca and Medina”, the reference is to the entire KSA. Just so you know.

Just so you know, KSA is more than Mecca and Medina. Mecca and Medina remain qualitatively different from the rest of KSA by banning entry to non-Muslims, who can legally be present anywhere ELSE in the kingdom.

My husband is Saudi, there is very little you can teach me about KSA. Just so you know.