Top schools for kids with perfect scores but minimal ECs?

[Anonymous]

People, read thru this whole thread. When OP says her child has near perfect stats but little ec, there's a lot of encouragement. OK, maybe not HYPSM but other top 20 like Hopkins, Chicago, Rice are likely. But then when another pp mentions her child with similar stats didn't get into any top 20 and indicates that they're asian, all of a sudden the posts turn very nasty with comments like, his essay was probably bad or no one wants a kid who does nothing but study all the time... Am I the only one seeing this bias? I wonder what the thread would have been like if OP said they were asian. In fact, maybe they are. They could be you know.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I hate to say this but at that level, your race matters a LOT. Whether you like it or not, that's how the game is played. My Asian kid with similar stats and over 1000 hours of volunteer hours got rejected by almost all of the top schools.

probably because your child had poor essays

Lackluster/poor essays are a huge reason for why so many get denied. It's not the stats and it's not the ECs which make or break the app, it's the impression you create on the admissions officer such that they can support you

If you play the cards to their advantage, you'll get in. If you don't, it doesn't matter what you did, what scores you got, etc.

I'm a new poster. What do you know about this child's essay for you to presume that? If he has perfect grades & test scores, he's probably a decent writer as well and certainly a hard worker who would have put in a lot of effort on his essay, I would think. My dc is not a great writer and will probably not have good essays for college but you can also see that in his grades, which always have lower humanities grades. He just really struggles in English & History classes where there are a lot of papers & essays. This kid obviously didn't. And really, you think a kid with perfect grades & test scores just slopped together some mediocre college essay after working so hard all his life in school? Does that really seem likely to you? We all know at the top schools, it's a lottery. Instead of having a little sympathy for a family whose kid obviously worked so hard all his life, why do you immediately accuse him of submitting a poor essay? Like you know anything about him, his essay or the admissions process...

A kid with no life outside of schoolwork may not have interesting things to write about. Essays should show passion and personality. All top scorers are not necessarily great at creative writing.

Just because the kid doesn't participate in formal extracurricular activities doesn't mean he doesnt have a life.

THIS. There's so much more to life to the usual school ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said probably. I'm not presuming I know anything about the applicant, but for private schools where applicants are all the same stat wise, recommendations and essays play a huge role.

Most admission officers I know have said the majority of the essays they read are mediocre. So it could very well be the reason a high stats student gets denied from many top schools.

Here is what happened at my kids private school - the B students w connections, legacies and money get into HYPS. The rest no matter how smarter the kid was unless it was an athlete or an orchestra/band kid, no one else did.

Same at our private. It's no wonder some kids spent more time with sports practice than on academics. Ironic really when the point is to get into a high academic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People, read thru this whole thread. When OP says her child has near perfect stats but little ec, there's a lot of encouragement. OK, maybe not HYPSM but other top 20 like Hopkins, Chicago, Rice are likely. But then when another pp mentions her child with similar stats didn't get into any top 20 and indicates that they're asian, all of a sudden the posts turn very nasty with comments like, his essay was probably bad or no one wants a kid who does nothing but study all the time... Am I the only one seeing this bias? I wonder what the thread would have been like if OP said they were asian. In fact, maybe they are. They could be you know.

Yes, I noticed that too. Condescending...

[Anonymous]

What's discouraging is using your narrative to dissuade others from applying. Just because your child didn't get in doesn't mean it'll be the case for others. Stating that it was simply because they were Asian is demeaning to the many Asian students who do attend these schools. Some posters need to know the hard truth that their child wasn't infallible for whatever reason- and no, it wasn't because of race. It's fine to state a cautionary tale but it really shouldn't be generalized to a subjective, complex process.

[Anonymous]

Chill out people. No one is bashing Asians here. Also, a kid who is very academic but does not have ECs is probably very smart and hardworking but maybe a tad one dimensional. His essay may well have lacked a certain spark. Colleges want high stats but also interesting people who will contribute to college life. This kid may come across as someone who may stay shut in the library all the time, not very inspiring for college non-academic life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is not a fact in any way. With his scores and grades, HYPSM will ALL keep him on the list for a long time. Eventually, they are only going to take about 5% of the kids who are grinds but THEY do take grinds, just not at a rate better than random. Since he has nothing that will knock him off or get him in, eventually, they will draw the names of a few like him from a hat. Seriously, they need a share of grinds to keep their score and GPA averages as high as possible while getting the others you list.

"A kid with just numbers and no other EC hook is not going to get into HYPSM unless they're a URM, recruited athlete or legacy. That's not racism, that's the facts."

What are grinds?

Code word for Asians. 30 years ago it was coded for Jews. Just ignore the miserable people that use this language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chill out people. No one is bashing Asians here. Also, a kid who is very academic but does not have ECs is probably very smart and hardworking but maybe a tad one dimensional. His essay may well have lacked a certain spark. Colleges want high stats but also interesting people who will contribute to college life. This kid may come across as someone who may stay shut in the library all the time, not very inspiring for college non-academic life.

I'm so tired about hearing this triteness that an interesting non-academic life is so important at an instituton that's suppose to be about education. People these are kids. They can have fun in a paper bag. And if you're watching your friend in a play or in a game, you really don't care how good they are. And frankly better if you can join in yourself. I know this...if I were selecting a surgeon, I would rather have that kid who was one dimensionally interested enough in his studies to dig deep. And may be that really exceptional EC kid should be going pro or to Juilliard. The OP said her kid had some ECs but didn't force himself to pretend to have passion. May be he's more interesting because he's had room to explore "stuff" rather than be stuffed down a mold. I know this from personal experence with a kid that was nationally ranked in a sport. Gave it up and now says all of that was just distracting. Having an interesting life came naturally after the college admittance crazy was over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chill out people. No one is bashing Asians here. Also, a kid who is very academic but does not have ECs is probably very smart and hardworking but maybe a tad one dimensional. His essay may well have lacked a certain spark. Colleges want high stats but also interesting people who will contribute to college life. This kid may come across as someone who may stay shut in the library all the time, not very inspiring for college non-academic life.

Hopkins or bust, baby!

[Anonymous]

Not having ECs doesn't lock you out completely. If your essays/personality/impressions from recommendation/interviews are glowing, you CAN get into HYPS and any other top academic school despite not having any impressive extracurricular activities. A baseline academic expectation is in place- and OP's child is easily there- but from then on it comes down to other factors.

A few posters here have stated that their high stats child got rejected most everywhere. While we will never know their individual circumstance, the reality is that those students did not leave as good an impression as others in the pool (not to be taken as a personal reflection of potential/aptitude/ability when a whopping 95% of highly qualified students get rejected at some of them). Could lack of involvement in ECs be a factor? Sure. But it would only stand out if they had nothing else to go off from. Say a student was a gifted intellectual who wrote superb, nuanced, thought-provoking essays. One teacher stated that they would be a field-changer for their discipline and among the best students they had taught in their career. It wouldn't matter if said student had lackluster ECs/outside involvements- the admissions office would want them.

Most essays are merely okay-good. They tackle the question raised and give some depth regarding the student's background/interests, but they don't have a wow factor. Most recommendations are positive, with teachers highlighting said student is among the top 5-10% of their career. Only a few are dazzling, deeply personal accounts highlighting just how extraordinary said student is (as backed by concrete narratives and examples, not empty words). Those are impressions that remain with admission officers as they go through hundreds of applications in a week.

[Anonymous]

In actuality the humanities kid who writes well is advantaged in the process not only for their own essays but the favaroite teachers who will write their recommendations. It's cold out here for the STEM boys who love math but not contests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chill out people. No one is bashing Asians here. Also, a kid who is very academic but does not have ECs is probably very smart and hardworking but maybe a tad one dimensional. His essay may well have lacked a certain spark. Colleges want high stats but also interesting people who will contribute to college life. This kid may come across as someone who may stay shut in the library all the time, not very inspiring for college non-academic life.

Someone definitely is. Maybe it was you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It will be difficult for him to get into a top ivy if that is what you are thinking. Also we don't know what "near perfect " means.

OP here -- Yes i know he has super low chances at HYPS or MIT. Would he have any chances at the other ivies or places such as Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, Hopkins? What about any USNews top 20/top 25 school?

He has 1600 SAT, 3.98 UW GPA, 1st in his class, many APs and Math II 800, Bio 800, US History 790. His scores are impeccable it is just that his ECs are weak. He wants to do pre-med. He volunteered over the summer at the local hospital, and also spends 2-3 hours every week there during the school year. But other than this he has nothing else of substance. He is a member in a couple of clubs at school. That is it.

That's well more than enough substance. Geez, the kid is working at a hospital he doesn't have to play squash or be on the prom committee or whatever.

He does need to settle on a specific major - premed is a set of prepatory classes but not a major.
Hopkins?

+100
I can't believe OP is stressing about a kid like this. Good grief. He'll get in anywhere he wants. Good for him.

No, he won't, unless he's an URM.

OP, he has zero chance of getting into HYPS or MIT. What does your school's Naviance show? SLACs like STEM kids and your kid's numbers will help boost their averages. Do non-sports kids from his high school get into Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore or Pomona? Without looking at the Naviance, you might want to look at schools like Notre Dame, Wash U and Emory.

Also large state universities like out-of-state kids like yours - look at the UCs (Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD) and Univ of Michigan.

Notre Dame is hugely Catholic - why recommend that school if you don't know if he's Catholic or not?
And stop with the URM crap - just stop. You are racist and ignorant,

He won't bd getting into MIT because he hasn't done significant intellectual work outside of school.

Why is that ignorant and racist?

A black with a 2350 SAT in the past few years would be in the 99.9 percentile of all blacks - but its a middling score for Asian.

Haven't you noticed that the "accepted to all 8 Ivy league schools" each year are black? That's because there out of the world SAT score and GPA puts them in rarified air - at least among other blacks.

You can't do that with other races.

[Anonymous]

I know 2 Black children, brothers, who scored between 1300 and 1550 on SAT before the age of 13. They are also terrific athletes likely to play at least one sport each in college.

The SAT bar is so very low. Empty barrels here make a lot of noise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know 2 Black children, brothers, who scored between 1300 and 1550 on SAT before the age of 13. They are also terrific athletes likely to play at least one sport each in college.

The SAT bar is so very low. Empty barrels here make a lot of noise.

Do you realize how inane it is to cite a random data point to support a thesis?