ADOS. is flawed

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No you don't understand EMRs. You think you do. Also, when do you think you'll get over the diagnosis that gave you access to services. It's been YEARS that you've brought up this up here. Stay on the MERLD list serves if you're so intent on spreading misinformation.


What do you think happens to them? They just get turned off or locked down? My child will be on this insurance till he ages out.


Hence, it does not follow him the rest of his life. 23 or 26 OR get a different health plan when he's 18.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The ADOS is a checklist. There is no medical testing involved. If you fit the checklist, you are diagnosed with autism in most situations. Its a very black and white test. There is no grey area with it.

Yes, a child can have genetic disorder and autism but a good diagnostician will do genetic testing to rule out before an autism diagnosis. An autism diagnosis is a catch all of we don't know what it is but it meets these traits. It very much can be something very specific that is missed or overlooked. We don't have testing or know what everything is so it is fit under autism. Often, families cannot afford genetic testing so it is not done.


No, the ADOS is not a checklist at all. You're confused.

The ADOS administered by a traines professional, together with collaboration with SLP, OT, and a psychologist, is the best we can do for diagnosing autism. It's not perfect and can be administered poorly, but that's true for all of this stuff.


That is one way of doing it. Our developmental ped did it and didn't talk to the SLP nor was anyone like his teachers consulted. It was a 30 minute appointment.


Then your dev ped did it the wrong way. It's not supposed to be done in isolation. The clinician needs to take into consideration the reports of parents, teachers etc., not base conclusions on a short procedure.


Agreed, but it is what it is. That is how he does it. Our SLP once emailed him about our referral as I was out of town and he refused to talk to her even with a release. He is always very responsive and nice to us but he will not consult with outside providers.


Yikes. Name?

Camarata's most recent book has a good chapter on what an evaluation should look like and the professionals that should be involved.


Our going to Dr. Camarata was a huge waste of time. I wish people would stop pushing them. I think at one point he was great but he's too stretched thin. Our evaluation was good as our child did very well with him and he's a really nice guy but another SLP, who was terrible was in the room and she wrote the report where there was no diagnosis and only raw test scores. He really didn't recommend anything since we had a great SLP and the school was working out very well. We didn't spend much and Nashville was fun.

I know what a good evaluation looks like. That is not the issue. We have to do things in a specific way because of our insurance. We don't have a lot of options if we want insurance to help pay for services.


We saw him back when he worked with his wife. She now has a solo practice but uses him for consults. I know you had a bad experience, but I'm getting reports almost weekly from parents who've seen Mary in her practice and been thrilled with the assessments and feedback they are give. The weak part is getting reports back; the Camaratas are stretched thin, I think.

The evaluation we got 10 years ago from them as a team really turned our family around. I can't imagine where we'd be without it.





10 years ago they were probably better. They should not be taking in as many families if they cannot do the work or Mary should hire support staff. Dr. Camarata has some support staff but he does not have one specific person assigned to him and the person we got he never worked with and it was a horrible report. I tried to contact him multiple times and finally got a response about there isn't anything he can do.

I'm reading others having similar experiences. And, one big issue is they are making projections which they shouldn't as its always not accurate.


I had my DS evaluated there and agree about support staff.

They gave me a projection when we first saw him at 5, then modified it during our followup a few years later to add a learning disorder and processing difficulties. I guess I could be mad that it didn't turn out to be totally accurate. But they told us from the beginning they weren't 100 percent accurate. They also were the only professionals we dealt with that gave us a road map to move forward and a concrete plan to deal with the schools. Everyone else just tested him, gave us the results and shook their heads. Dr. Camarata also told us our child wouldn't be conversational until middle school, and it was true that DS did not get most of his functional language until after he was 9 years old. But even post middle school he has not caught up completely, because his receptive language remains in the bottom percentile. So we didn't get the rosy outcome we thought we'd have when DS was 5. Still, DS is now a great arguer. DH jokes that he'll end up a lawyer.


Because they were the only evaluators to consider him intelligent and competent (and their testing bore this out) and encouraged us to have him take regular classes with accommodations and pullouts we proceeded very differently from other parents in our circle who put their language disabled children in self-contained classes. There's just this different mindset; we push our child because we view him as capable and smart and so he continually moves forward; children in self-contained classes are protected and barely taught anything.







Anonymous
And the smarmy award goes to...
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:And the smarmy award goes to...


Don't like the truth? Sorry. Kids in self-contained classes in my district aren't taught much academically. They are viewed as simply not capable. Sometimes their parents also buy into that view because that's what they are told all the time, other parents I talk to are very frustrated by the lack of academics and are even filing state complaints about it, but the state has told them, too bad. We aren't required to teach kids in special ed anything.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the smarmy award goes to...


Don't like the truth? Sorry. Kids in self-contained classes in my district aren't taught much academically. They are viewed as simply not capable. Sometimes their parents also buy into that view because that's what they are told all the time, other parents I talk to are very frustrated by the lack of academics and are even filing state complaints about it, but the state has told them, too bad. We aren't required to teach kids in special ed anything.


This has to be FCPS.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The ADOS is a checklist. There is no medical testing involved. If you fit the checklist, you are diagnosed with autism in most situations. Its a very black and white test. There is no grey area with it.

Yes, a child can have genetic disorder and autism but a good diagnostician will do genetic testing to rule out before an autism diagnosis. An autism diagnosis is a catch all of we don't know what it is but it meets these traits. It very much can be something very specific that is missed or overlooked. We don't have testing or know what everything is so it is fit under autism. Often, families cannot afford genetic testing so it is not done.


No, the ADOS is not a checklist at all. You're confused.

The ADOS administered by a traines professional, together with collaboration with SLP, OT, and a psychologist, is the best we can do for diagnosing autism. It's not perfect and can be administered poorly, but that's true for all of this stuff.


That is one way of doing it. Our developmental ped did it and didn't talk to the SLP nor was anyone like his teachers consulted. It was a 30 minute appointment.


Then your dev ped did it the wrong way. It's not supposed to be done in isolation. The clinician needs to take into consideration the reports of parents, teachers etc., not base conclusions on a short procedure.


Agreed, but it is what it is. That is how he does it. Our SLP once emailed him about our referral as I was out of town and he refused to talk to her even with a release. He is always very responsive and nice to us but he will not consult with outside providers.


Yikes. Name?

Camarata's most recent book has a good chapter on what an evaluation should look like and the professionals that should be involved.


Our going to Dr. Camarata was a huge waste of time. I wish people would stop pushing them. I think at one point he was great but he's too stretched thin. Our evaluation was good as our child did very well with him and he's a really nice guy but another SLP, who was terrible was in the room and she wrote the report where there was no diagnosis and only raw test scores. He really didn't recommend anything since we had a great SLP and the school was working out very well. We didn't spend much and Nashville was fun.

I know what a good evaluation looks like. That is not the issue. We have to do things in a specific way because of our insurance. We don't have a lot of options if we want insurance to help pay for services.


We saw him back when he worked with his wife. She now has a solo practice but uses him for consults. I know you had a bad experience, but I'm getting reports almost weekly from parents who've seen Mary in her practice and been thrilled with the assessments and feedback they are give. The weak part is getting reports back; the Camaratas are stretched thin, I think.

The evaluation we got 10 years ago from them as a team really turned our family around. I can't imagine where we'd be without it.





10 years ago they were probably better. They should not be taking in as many families if they cannot do the work or Mary should hire support staff. Dr. Camarata has some support staff but he does not have one specific person assigned to him and the person we got he never worked with and it was a horrible report. I tried to contact him multiple times and finally got a response about there isn't anything he can do.

I'm reading others having similar experiences. And, one big issue is they are making projections which they shouldn't as its always not accurate.


I had my DS evaluated there and agree about support staff.

They gave me a projection when we first saw him at 5, then modified it during our followup a few years later to add a learning disorder and processing difficulties. I guess I could be mad that it didn't turn out to be totally accurate. But they told us from the beginning they weren't 100 percent accurate. They also were the only professionals we dealt with that gave us a road map to move forward and a concrete plan to deal with the schools. Everyone else just tested him, gave us the results and shook their heads. Dr. Camarata also told us our child wouldn't be conversational until middle school, and it was true that DS did not get most of his functional language until after he was 9 years old. But even post middle school he has not caught up completely, because his receptive language remains in the bottom percentile. So we didn't get the rosy outcome we thought we'd have when DS was 5. Still, DS is now a great arguer. DH jokes that he'll end up a lawyer.


Because they were the only evaluators to consider him intelligent and competent (and their testing bore this out) and encouraged us to have him take regular classes with accommodations and pullouts we proceeded very differently from other parents in our circle who put their language disabled children in self-contained classes. There's just this different mindset; we push our child because we view him as capable and smart and so he continually moves forward; children in self-contained classes are protected and barely taught anything.









I agree with you PP. While I do think that NO ONE can make projections and neither should we, the parents, believe in such projections 100 percent, I get no plan of action from the dev pediatrician, who at this point is merely a note taker.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the smarmy award goes to...


Don't like the truth? Sorry. Kids in self-contained classes in my district aren't taught much academically. They are viewed as simply not capable. Sometimes their parents also buy into that view because that's what they are told all the time, other parents I talk to are very frustrated by the lack of academics and are even filing state complaints about it, but the state has told them, too bad. We aren't required to teach kids in special ed anything.


Stop blaming the parents and the kids. Why not focus the energy you put into being self righteous and lobby lawmakers to change the system?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the smarmy award goes to...


Don't like the truth? Sorry. Kids in self-contained classes in my district aren't taught much academically. They are viewed as simply not capable. Sometimes their parents also buy into that view because that's what they are told all the time, other parents I talk to are very frustrated by the lack of academics and are even filing state complaints about it, but the state has told them, too bad. We aren't required to teach kids in special ed anything.


This has to be FCPS.


Well I can promise you it isn't MCPS, at least not in my kid's classroom. Also the SCOTUS just disagreed with PP's state, so all those parents need to hire attorneys and try again.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No you don't understand EMRs. You think you do. Also, when do you think you'll get over the diagnosis that gave you access to services. It's been YEARS that you've brought up this up here. Stay on the MERLD list serves if you're so intent on spreading misinformation.


What do you think happens to them? They just get turned off or locked down? My child will be on this insurance till he ages out.


Hence, it does not follow him the rest of his life. 23 or 26 OR get a different health plan when he's 18.


You live in a very different world than we do. 23 to 26 brings him to his adult life, which employers and others can and may access the insurance. If he continues with the same insurance due to his employment choices, he'd continue and his medical files would remain open.

What do you think happens to these medical files? They just disappear? He will not get a different health care plan at 18 as he will continue to be covered as long as he is in school to age 22 and if he continues in school till age 26 (assuming there is still the mandate and it doesn't go back to age 22).
Anonymous




I agree with you PP. While I do think that NO ONE can make projections and neither should we, the parents, believe in such projections 100 percent, I get no plan of action from the dev pediatrician, who at this point is merely a note taker.

What exactly does your developmental ped do then and what is the point of going? Ours gives our referrals for services and decides what services we get (he's very generous with his referrals) so he's basically our gatekeeper. He would do things like refer us for a neuropsych. if he felt it was appropriate. He talked to us about the services we are receiving, were we happy with them and discussed progress and made suggestions. He talked to us about our school choices as well as activity choices and made suggestions (though mostly based off his experiences with other families). When our regular ped. put in our referrals they always got denied so we have to use a developmental ped. I have also called him on other non-related medical issues I suspected and he talked to me about what to do (and put in a different referral to check it out) when I could not get in touch with our regular ped. Our developmental ped also did a mini-IQ test (forget which one) and another test at our last visit to see where our child was at.

I don't think professionals should make projections. They were more presented to us with kids of similar characteristics at this age start to catch up.....it was about a year off for us. There are just too many variables, especially if kids have LD, ADHD/ADD to speculate how a child will be doing years out.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No you don't understand EMRs. You think you do. Also, when do you think you'll get over the diagnosis that gave you access to services. It's been YEARS that you've brought up this up here. Stay on the MERLD list serves if you're so intent on spreading misinformation.


What do you think happens to them? They just get turned off or locked down? My child will be on this insurance till he ages out.


Hence, it does not follow him the rest of his life. 23 or 26 OR get a different health plan when he's 18.


You live in a very different world than we do. 23 to 26 brings him to his adult life, which employers and others can and may access the insurance. If he continues with the same insurance due to his employment choices, he'd continue and his medical files would remain open.

What do you think happens to these medical files? They just disappear? He will not get a different health care plan at 18 as he will continue to be covered as long as he is in school to age 22 and if he continues in school till age 26 (assuming there is still the mandate and it doesn't go back to age 22).


Most employers are not able to access your medical for the purpose of making hiring decisions. For something like getting a security clearance, an erroneous diagnosis when your kid was 2 years old is very unlikely to cause a problem. They are much more concerned with CURRENT medical issues than 20 year old medical errors. And if it bothers you that much, you can have another doctor put a statement in the record that the original diagnosis was an error. You can also put your own statement in the record.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the smarmy award goes to...


Don't like the truth? Sorry. Kids in self-contained classes in my district aren't taught much academically. They are viewed as simply not capable. Sometimes their parents also buy into that view because that's what they are told all the time, other parents I talk to are very frustrated by the lack of academics and are even filing state complaints about it, but the state has told them, too bad. We aren't required to teach kids in special ed anything.


Stop blaming the parents and the kids. Why not focus the energy you put into being self righteous and lobby lawmakers to change the system?


The system is exhausting and expensive to fight. I'm not remotely "blaming" the parents or kids. I'm blaming the state and the special ed departments, and often the teachers.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:And the smarmy award goes to...


Don't like the truth? Sorry. Kids in self-contained classes in my district aren't taught much academically. They are viewed as simply not capable. Sometimes their parents also buy into that view because that's what they are told all the time, other parents I talk to are very frustrated by the lack of academics and are even filing state complaints about it, but the state has told them, too bad. We aren't required to teach kids in special ed anything.


Stop blaming the parents and the kids. Why not focus the energy you put into being self righteous and lobby lawmakers to change the system?


The system is exhausting and expensive to fight. I'm not remotely "blaming" the parents or kids. I'm blaming the state and the special ed departments, and often the teachers.


We find the principal sets the tone and how things are done at each particular school. Our teachers are pretty checked out and have a very closed classroom, and I'm assuming its mainly due to the principal. We get very little information about how our child is doing and have very little input into the IEP, services or needs. It isn't worth fighting the system. You either work within it or leave. By the time you pay an attorney and fight, if you can afford all that you might as well pay for private or homeschool. One problem we have at our school is they put any child with an IEP in one classroom regardless of the need and the higher functioning kids are slowed down to catch up the other kids and there is very little individualized instruction. Teachers are not well trained in all special needs and are doing the best they can but when they don't understand a particular disorder, they often dismiss the child as not knowing rather than trying to find other ways to gain the information they need. It would take many parents banding together to fight a huge system or a parent with a lot of money willing to take on the challenge. I'd rather put that time and money into my child to make sure they succeed. We end up doing a lot of teaching at home.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No you don't understand EMRs. You think you do. Also, when do you think you'll get over the diagnosis that gave you access to services. It's been YEARS that you've brought up this up here. Stay on the MERLD list serves if you're so intent on spreading misinformation.


What do you think happens to them? They just get turned off or locked down? My child will be on this insurance till he ages out.


Hence, it does not follow him the rest of his life. 23 or 26 OR get a different health plan when he's 18.


You live in a very different world than we do. 23 to 26 brings him to his adult life, which employers and others can and may access the insurance. If he continues with the same insurance due to his employment choices, he'd continue and his medical files would remain open.

What do you think happens to these medical files? They just disappear? He will not get a different health care plan at 18 as he will continue to be covered as long as he is in school to age 22 and if he continues in school till age 26 (assuming there is still the mandate and it doesn't go back to age 22).


Let me guess, you are a SAH parent. Get a job and put your kid under your insurance and stop whining. It's been YEARS that you've been posting this on DCUM. Get over it and get a job.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No you don't understand EMRs. You think you do. Also, when do you think you'll get over the diagnosis that gave you access to services. It's been YEARS that you've brought up this up here. Stay on the MERLD list serves if you're so intent on spreading misinformation.


What do you think happens to them? They just get turned off or locked down? My child will be on this insurance till he ages out.


Hence, it does not follow him the rest of his life. 23 or 26 OR get a different health plan when he's 18.


You live in a very different world than we do. 23 to 26 brings him to his adult life, which employers and others can and may access the insurance. If he continues with the same insurance due to his employment choices, he'd continue and his medical files would remain open.

What do you think happens to these medical files? They just disappear? He will not get a different health care plan at 18 as he will continue to be covered as long as he is in school to age 22 and if he continues in school till age 26 (assuming there is still the mandate and it doesn't go back to age 22).


Most employers are not able to access your medical for the purpose of making hiring decisions. For something like getting a security clearance, an erroneous diagnosis when your kid was 2 years old is very unlikely to cause a problem. They are much more concerned with CURRENT medical issues than 20 year old medical errors. And if it bothers you that much, you can have another doctor put a statement in the record that the original diagnosis was an error. You can also put your own statement in the record.


Not to mention it wouldn't disqualify him from a security clearance anyhow. At most it would disqualify him from military service, but even ADHD or LD technically disqualify you.
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