Do private teachers really make a lot less than public teachers? If so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that private schools have more resources and better training than the public schools. Not at all true.

I was just thinking the same, especially about the resources.

I have taught in a public school for 24 years and have never needed anything that wasn't provided. Everything I have requested beyond that has been provided by the school.

The poster asked why teachers would stay with a private school when public schools pay more. Obviously my experience doesn't apply to every school. But the training and resources didn't even compare in my data set.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How hard is it for a new graduate to begin teaching in a prime suburban district?

I don't see why talented smart young grads would begin at low-paying privates, charters, or violent inner city districts ... unless that was their only option?

There was an article in the Post years ago about a teacher getting sued for $20M after a parent claimed he pushed her son!

I think it depends on the new teacher's certification. From what I've seen, at the secondary level (middle and high school) math, ESL and Special Ed are all in high demand and those new teachers will get swept up before they even open their mouths to ask if the system is hiring. Social studies, CTE, TAG, counselor, nurse and ELA positions seem to be harder to find. Elementary school seems to have a fairly consistent churn so it doesn't seem hard to break in there.

The new young teachers who search out Title I schools are doing it because of their student loans. I'm not totally sure about all the ins and outs of the program but I think their student loans are totally or significantly (like >80%) forgiven if they make it for at least 5 years in a Title I school. Our school is Title I and I know that is why several of our young teachers are here. When they hit their 5 they will move on to an easier demographic in a better neighborhood. They have said so.

FWIW I have multiple certifications, two in the high need categories I listed above. I choose to work in my Title I school because that is my demographic. I love it and I am good at it. But I know that if I get fed up one day then I can walk out and have a new job within a few hours (just as long as it takes for me to make a few calls and get the word out).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How hard is it for a new graduate to begin teaching in a prime suburban district?

I don't see why talented smart young grads would begin at low-paying privates, charters, or violent inner city districts ... unless that was their only option?

There was an article in the Post years ago about a teacher getting sued for $20M after a parent claimed he pushed her son!

I think it depends on the new teacher's certification. From what I've seen, at the secondary level (middle and high school) math, ESL and Special Ed are all in high demand and those new teachers will get swept up before they even open their mouths to ask if the system is hiring. Social studies, CTE, TAG, counselor, nurse and ELA positions seem to be harder to find. Elementary school seems to have a fairly consistent churn so it doesn't seem hard to break in there.

The new young teachers who search out Title I schools are doing it because of their student loans. I'm not totally sure about all the ins and outs of the program but I think their student loans are totally or significantly (like >80%) forgiven if they make it for at least 5 years in a Title I school. Our school is Title I and I know that is why several of our young teachers are here. When they hit their 5 they will move on to an easier demographic in a better neighborhood. They have said so.

FWIW I have multiple certifications, two in the high need categories I listed above. I choose to work in my Title I school because that is my demographic. I love it and I am good at it. But I know that if I get fed up one day then I can walk out and have a new job within a few hours (just as long as it takes for me to make a few calls and get the word out).

More: although every time I drive by one of the ritzy private schools on the way to my school, I do kick myself a little because those folks are never at school. You know the saying about the high tuition schools: you pay, you play. Well, the teachers get the play time, too! I would bet that this is a really attractive benefit for a lot of teachers!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh come on. This is ridiculous. Most independent schools in this area are outstanding. It's ridiculous to presume that teacher freedom has really back fired. Being highly educated and knowledgeable in your subject is pretty amazing and frankly beats the teacher certification (which I have), which mostly involved studying common sense, like students respond better to positive reinforcement rather than negative words. No shit. If you need to be told that, you are in the wrong field.

Very few people plan to become private school teachers.

I'm not sure what this means. Every private school teacher I know applied for the job, and then accepted the job. So, I have to assume that they planned to be there.

I started my career student teaching in private school, but planning to eventually work in public school. Which I did, and did well. But I was also burning the candle at both ends, and spending a lot of my emotional energy on worrying about and advocating for kids who needed that. A few years ago, when it was clear that my own special needs kid needed more time and energy from me, I made a conscious decision to switch to private. I wanted a smaller teaching load, and a job that was more contained. In my new school, I'm exactly the same teacher. My relationships with the kids are equally good. I teach the same kinds of lessons, and give kids the same level of feedback. But because I have less kids and less feedback to give (e.g. fewer papers to grade), and because my planning time is less likely to be interrupted by a kid's personal crisis, I go home earlier, and take less work home. I also don't lie awake at night wondering if Johnny is physically safe. When there's a snow day my first thought is "oooh sledding!" rather than "Will Paul have anything to eat?"

At another point in my life, I might go back to public. Maybe when I've got (God willing) college tuition to pay. But for right now, the $15K pay cut I took is a worthwhile trade off.

Does that count as "planning to become a private school teacher"?

[Anonymous]

I was a teacher and taught at both public and private schools. We moved around a lot with my DH's career. I taught in privates when I couldn't get hired in the public schools. The difference in teacher quality is significant. Overall, public school teachers are dramatically more qualified, better trained, and better teachers. Even in the really good privates I worked in, many of the teachers didn't even have teaching degrees. Some were truly awful. I know people choose private for many reasons. My kids were in private school for several years. But you certainly don't choose private school for better quality teachers.

[Anonymous]

There I see a big difference between working in a title one public school and working in a top rated, public in, say north Arlington or Bethesda, in terms of student quality and resources.

...still curious to hear what private schools actually pay their teachers and the quality of the benefits offered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There I see a big difference between working in a title one public school and working in a top rated, public in, say north Arlington or Bethesda, in terms of student quality and resources.

...still curious to hear what private schools actually pay their teachers and the quality of the benefits offered.

Student quality?

WTF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There I see a big difference between working in a title one public school and working in a top rated, public in, say north Arlington or Bethesda, in terms of student quality and resources.

...still curious to hear what private schools actually pay their teachers and the quality of the benefits offered.

Student quality?

WTF?

Yeah, I'm wondering the same thing. Someone is fishing for a fight, maybe? Especially since if the person really wanted a job at a private then s/he would be talking to them already ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a teacher and taught at both public and private schools. We moved around a lot with my DH's career. I taught in privates when I couldn't get hired in the public schools. The difference in teacher quality is significant. Overall, public school teachers are dramatically more qualified, better trained, and better teachers. Even in the really good privates I worked in, many of the teachers didn't even have teaching degrees. Some were truly awful. I know people choose private for many reasons. My kids were in private school for several years. But you certainly don't choose private school for better quality teachers.

Some of us don't have a particularly great opinion of education degrees, so don't consider it to be a measure of quality.
https://qz.com/334926/your-college-major-is-a-pretty-good-indication-of-how-smart-you-are/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh come on. This is ridiculous. Most independent schools in this area are outstanding. It's ridiculous to presume that teacher freedom has really back fired. Being highly educated and knowledgeable in your subject is pretty amazing and frankly beats the teacher certification (which I have), which mostly involved studying common sense, like students respond better to positive reinforcement rather than negative words. No shit. If you need to be told that, you are in the wrong field.

Very few people plan to become private school teachers.

I'm not sure what this means. Every private school teacher I know applied for the job, and then accepted the job. So, I have to assume that they planned to be there.

I started my career student teaching in private school, but planning to eventually work in public school. Which I did, and did well. But I was also burning the candle at both ends, and spending a lot of my emotional energy on worrying about and advocating for kids who needed that. A few years ago, when it was clear that my own special needs kid needed more time and energy from me, I made a conscious decision to switch to private. I wanted a smaller teaching load, and a job that was more contained. In my new school, I'm exactly the same teacher. My relationships with the kids are equally good. I teach the same kinds of lessons, and give kids the same level of feedback. But because I have less kids and less feedback to give (e.g. fewer papers to grade), and because my planning time is less likely to be interrupted by a kid's personal crisis, I go home earlier, and take less work home. I also don't lie awake at night wondering if Johnny is physically safe. When there's a snow day my first thought is "oooh sledding!" rather than "Will Paul have anything to eat?"

At another point in my life, I might go back to public. Maybe when I've got (God willing) college tuition to pay. But for right now, the $15K pay cut I took is a worthwhile trade off.

Does that count as "planning to become a private school teacher"?

Doesn't the public teacher pension and (lifetime) healthcare benefits makes it a night & day comparison? Public teachers only need 20 (or 25?) years to retire with a large % of their pension and lifetime health care, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our private our teachers have very small class sizes and well supported students. They also have flexibility to adapt the curriculum to suit the class' needs. Their professional development opportunities are amazing and provide observable benefits to their students. I chaperoned a field trip and one of the teachers who planned it told me she had applied to our school for several years in a row knowing full well that there were no advertised openings. Her hope was that when an opening became available, she would be considered since the school would know of her dedicated interest. We have very little turnover in the teaching and admin staff.

Do you know anything about their pay and benefits?

No, I don't. They seem to be pretty happy with their jobs and when I meet and talk with them in parent teacher conferences, they "get" my kid. I support the teacher appreciation fundraising and provide whatever I can of what I am asked to do to support them because I think so highly of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh come on. This is ridiculous. Most independent schools in this area are outstanding. It's ridiculous to presume that teacher freedom has really back fired. Being highly educated and knowledgeable in your subject is pretty amazing and frankly beats the teacher certification (which I have), which mostly involved studying common sense, like students respond better to positive reinforcement rather than negative words. No shit. If you need to be told that, you are in the wrong field.

Very few people plan to become private school teachers.

I'm not sure what this means. Every private school teacher I know applied for the job, and then accepted the job. So, I have to assume that they planned to be there.

I started my career student teaching in private school, but planning to eventually work in public school. Which I did, and did well. But I was also burning the candle at both ends, and spending a lot of my emotional energy on worrying about and advocating for kids who needed that. A few years ago, when it was clear that my own special needs kid needed more time and energy from me, I made a conscious decision to switch to private. I wanted a smaller teaching load, and a job that was more contained. In my new school, I'm exactly the same teacher. My relationships with the kids are equally good. I teach the same kinds of lessons, and give kids the same level of feedback. But because I have less kids and less feedback to give (e.g. fewer papers to grade), and because my planning time is less likely to be interrupted by a kid's personal crisis, I go home earlier, and take less work home. I also don't lie awake at night wondering if Johnny is physically safe. When there's a snow day my first thought is "oooh sledding!" rather than "Will Paul have anything to eat?"

At another point in my life, I might go back to public. Maybe when I've got (God willing) college tuition to pay. But for right now, the $15K pay cut I took is a worthwhile trade off.

Does that count as "planning to become a private school teacher"?

Doesn't the public teacher pension and (lifetime) healthcare benefits makes it a night & day comparison? Public teachers only need 20 (or 25?) years to retire with a large % of their pension and lifetime health care, right?

I teach in a VA public school. With 20 years I was 42 years old. Perhaps I was technically able to retire but the VRS benefits would have been greatly reduced. Maybe a few hundred dollars a month? It would have been a far cry from a "large %". I will be eligible for unreduced VRS benefits at age 52 with 30 years.

As far as lifetime healthcare benefits, sure we get those as long as we pay for them after we retire. That's no different from what anyone else can do. Just pay the premiums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh come on. This is ridiculous. Most independent schools in this area are outstanding. It's ridiculous to presume that teacher freedom has really back fired. Being highly educated and knowledgeable in your subject is pretty amazing and frankly beats the teacher certification (which I have), which mostly involved studying common sense, like students respond better to positive reinforcement rather than negative words. No shit. If you need to be told that, you are in the wrong field.

Very few people plan to become private school teachers.

I'm not sure what this means. Every private school teacher I know applied for the job, and then accepted the job. So, I have to assume that they planned to be there.

I started my career student teaching in private school, but planning to eventually work in public school. Which I did, and did well. But I was also burning the candle at both ends, and spending a lot of my emotional energy on worrying about and advocating for kids who needed that. A few years ago, when it was clear that my own special needs kid needed more time and energy from me, I made a conscious decision to switch to private. I wanted a smaller teaching load, and a job that was more contained. In my new school, I'm exactly the same teacher. My relationships with the kids are equally good. I teach the same kinds of lessons, and give kids the same level of feedback. But because I have less kids and less feedback to give (e.g. fewer papers to grade), and because my planning time is less likely to be interrupted by a kid's personal crisis, I go home earlier, and take less work home. I also don't lie awake at night wondering if Johnny is physically safe. When there's a snow day my first thought is "oooh sledding!" rather than "Will Paul have anything to eat?"

At another point in my life, I might go back to public. Maybe when I've got (God willing) college tuition to pay. But for right now, the $15K pay cut I took is a worthwhile trade off.

Does that count as "planning to become a private school teacher"?

Doesn't the public teacher pension and (lifetime) healthcare benefits makes it a night & day comparison? Public teachers only need 20 (or 25?) years to retire with a large % of their pension and lifetime health care, right?

I teach in a VA public school. With 20 years I was 42 years old. Perhaps I was technically able to retire but the VRS benefits would have been greatly reduced. Maybe a few hundred dollars a month? It would have been a far cry from a "large %". I will be eligible for unreduced VRS benefits at age 52 with 30 years.

As far as lifetime healthcare benefits, sure we get those as long as we pay for them after we retire. That's no different from what anyone else can do. Just pay the premiums.

Health insurance premiums for a retiree can be over $600/month for an individual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree that private schools have more resources and better training than the public schools. Not at all true.

Exactly. That might be the biggest private school myth out there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At our private our teachers have very small class sizes and well supported students. They also have flexibility to adapt the curriculum to suit the class' needs. Their professional development opportunities are amazing and provide observable benefits to their students. I chaperoned a field trip and one of the teachers who planned it told me she had applied to our school for several years in a row knowing full well that there were no advertised openings. Her hope was that when an opening became available, she would be considered since the school would know of her dedicated interest. We have very little turnover in the teaching and admin staff.

Do you know anything about their pay and benefits?

No, I don't. They seem to be pretty happy with their jobs and when I meet and talk with them in parent teacher conferences, they "get" my kid. I support the teacher appreciation fundraising and provide whatever I can of what I am asked to do to support them because I think so highly of them.

No professional, responsible teacher is going to complain about their job with you, or speak about their school in a negative way at a parent teacher conference (or anywhere else). I've been a teacher in independent schools for over a decade, and I did once work for an utterly miserable, bullying, ineffective admin in one of these schools. I used to cry every day after work, and had to go on antidepressants that year. However, every parent with whom I interacted would have seen a positive, composed professional who did not discredit the school in any way. They would have walked out thinking I was happy with my job because it would have been massively unprofessional and inappropriate for me to indicate otherwise. You know nothing about how happy your kid's teachers are in their jobs.