Things You Wish You Knew When he/she was in 10th Grade

[Anonymous]

Start talking about money early. Involve your child. If you can full pay a 60K a year college, then fantastic. If not, you need to have transparent conversations about what is possible. How much is saved, how much you can cash flow, and if you are willing to take on debt. Don't let your child fall in love with a college that will be unaffordable. The financial aid fairy is not coming for the vast majority of DCUMers, even those who think they are "middle class."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private tutoring is the best investment you could ever make. Bs turn to As, 90-percentile SAT turns to 95-percentile.

Yeah -- and your kid learns to rely on mom, dad and the tutor to fix everything for her.

Last time I checked, the student being tutored actually has to do WORK to understand concepts and pass the exams. Are you just sending your to SAT cold turkey? Good luck with that.

NP here. Actually sent 2 kids off to SAT and ACT without any tutoring (save a practice test, I administered to the one who didn't test as well.) Both scored high enough to earn merit aid. It helps to know your kid before you rush to shell out lots of money for unnecessary tutors. At our public high school some consultant even offered a free service to have your kids take practice ACT and SATs to assess which one they were likely to do better on. As both my kids were time-strapped with other activities and requirements, it was a godsend to only have to take one test one time.

And while I think tutors can be valuable if you're really stuck, I agree that it isn't a perfect lesson for the real world. I have a child who routinely goes on and on about not getting stuff etc. So far he's been able to figure things out between asking the teacher and really working at the problems on his own. I think this is a valuable skill until they really do get stuck. Kind of like not picking up a baby the first time they let out a little cry.

Agreed. I anticipated having to book test prep services for my son, who isn't always a great test-taker, but chose to have him first take advantage of the cheap practice tests offered by his school whenever offered, and then take both SAT and ACT cold. SAT score came back OK, but some prep would help -- then ACT score came back so high that there was no reason to retake. You just never know, is all I'm saying. If your kid can do well without the prep, that's time saved and money in the bank. But you won't know until he/she takes the first test.

I also think SAT II tests are a waste of time and money unless you're aiming for an Ivy or Stanford, or looking into a highly competitive science program. No need for a liberal arts or business kid, and little need for STEM kids if their SAT or ACT demonstrate their skills there. AP and IB tests also figure into placement. Why toss more money at College Board for SAT II?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what your college budget is and then let your kid know. If $ is no object, great. But if you are limited to public schools, and private schools that will meet your demonstrated need and/or offer merit $, you need to let her know that. This will shape the list of schools you consider.

Other than that, nothing is more important that taking a rigorous course of study in Grade 11 and doing very well. She can always add an extra-curricular or 2, but the truth is that if she isn't already highly engaged in something and on track for a meaningful leadership position, then the extra-curricular probably won't matter much.

Also, figuring out a testing schedule is a great idea. Only reason to take Subject Test in Grade 10 is if she is in an AP class this year, and can use final AP exam prep as Subject Test prep.

Thank you for this! (I'm not the OP but have a 10th grader.)

Can someone explain how to choose which subject tests to take? Should they be in areas in which the child might major? OR areas in which she/he happens to test well, regardless of whether she is interested in pursuing that subject area ever again?

Just take the Subject Test in whichever subjects your child is likely to score best. That being said, the curves on the Math and Science Subject tests are insane. 800s only get you 88th percentile on Math 2. Also, language percentiles are destroyed by native speakers who take the Subject Test.

To me, it's a natural that if your kid is taking AP US History (for example) and doing well, have them take the SAT II in US History right after taking the AP US History Exam. English is another good one, if your kid scores well on the SAT I Verbal/Critical Reading.

Percentiles don't mean much for the subject tests. The scores are more important. If your kid gets an 800 on the Math Test the school isn't going to think, "Oh, that kid is only in the 88th percentile." Chill out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what your college budget is and then let your kid know. If $ is no object, great. But if you are limited to public schools, and private schools that will meet your demonstrated need and/or offer merit $, you need to let her know that. This will shape the list of schools you consider.

Other than that, nothing is more important that taking a rigorous course of study in Grade 11 and doing very well. She can always add an extra-curricular or 2, but the truth is that if she isn't already highly engaged in something and on track for a meaningful leadership position, then the extra-curricular probably won't matter much.

Also, figuring out a testing schedule is a great idea. Only reason to take Subject Test in Grade 10 is if she is in an AP class this year, and can use final AP exam prep as Subject Test prep.

Thank you for this! (I'm not the OP but have a 10th grader.)

Can someone explain how to choose which subject tests to take? Should they be in areas in which the child might major? OR areas in which she/he happens to test well, regardless of whether she is interested in pursuing that subject area ever again?

Just take the Subject Test in whichever subjects your child is likely to score best. That being said, the curves on the Math and Science Subject tests are insane. 800s only get you 88th percentile on Math 2. Also, language percentiles are destroyed by native speakers who take the Subject Test.

To me, it's a natural that if your kid is taking AP US History (for example) and doing well, have them take the SAT II in US History right after taking the AP US History Exam. English is another good one, if your kid scores well on the SAT I Verbal/Critical Reading.

Percentiles don't mean much for the subject tests. The scores are more important. If your kid gets an 800 on the Math Test the school isn't going to think, "Oh, that kid is only in the 88th percentile." Chill out.

OP doesn't seem to be looking at highly selective colleges, so it's kind of a moot point here. But that piece of advice isn't entirely accurate - more kids score an 800 on the SAT II than even take some of the humanities Subject Tests. An 800 Math 2 isn't a differentiator at a school that accepts fewer than 10% of applicants. An English Lit or US History 800, especially from a boy since so many fewer males want to pursue humanities than females, sets you apart at the most competitive schools in a way that a Math 2 800 does not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what your college budget is and then let your kid know. If $ is no object, great. But if you are limited to public schools, and private schools that will meet your demonstrated need and/or offer merit $, you need to let her know that. This will shape the list of schools you consider.

Other than that, nothing is more important that taking a rigorous course of study in Grade 11 and doing very well. She can always add an extra-curricular or 2, but the truth is that if she isn't already highly engaged in something and on track for a meaningful leadership position, then the extra-curricular probably won't matter much.

Also, figuring out a testing schedule is a great idea. Only reason to take Subject Test in Grade 10 is if she is in an AP class this year, and can use final AP exam prep as Subject Test prep.

We have a junior who is starting to look at schools. Right now it's a fairly wide net and we haven't restricted any interest (DC has been slow to build interest in looking). Is there any way to gauge need or merit? I guess what I'm wondering is, I'd hate to say no based on the cost when I have no idea how much merit might be offered down the line.

What can you afford to pay for four years? That is your starting point.

To gauge need: Run Net Price Calculators (NPC) for each school and determine your Expected Family Contribution (EFC) at the FAFSA website.

To gauge merit aid: Look at the Common Data Set (CDS) for each school to determine if (1) it awards merit aid (many don't, most do, lose your attachment to brand names if you need it); and (2) whether your child is in the top 25% of admitted students, stats-wise. Being in the top quartile will likely translate to merit aid.

The book The College Solution is an excellent step by step guide to finding a school that is both the right fit and affordable for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Start talking about money early. Involve your child. If you can full pay a 60K a year college, then fantastic. If not, you need to have transparent conversations about what is possible. How much is saved, how much you can cash flow, and if you are willing to take on debt. Don't let your child fall in love with a college that will be unaffordable. The financial aid fairy is not coming for the vast majority of DCUMers, even those who think they are "middle class."

+1

Biggest myth out there: If you can get into a school, the money will work out. <---NOT TRUE

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start talking about money early. Involve your child. If you can full pay a 60K a year college, then fantastic. If not, you need to have transparent conversations about what is possible. How much is saved, how much you can cash flow, and if you are willing to take on debt. Don't let your child fall in love with a college that will be unaffordable. The financial aid fairy is not coming for the vast majority of DCUMers, even those who think they are "middle class."

+1

Biggest myth out there: If you can get into a school, the money will work out. <---NOT TRUE

This is a great one. My kid was a recruited athlete who had offers at some great schools. Unfortunately, even with merit aid, which kid qualified for, there is only so much you can do to bring down tuition topping $60,000 a year at a private school. In the end, it didn't matter how much kid wanted them or they wanted kid, the money didn't magically appear and we refused to shell out more than in-state tuition for the privilege of playing a sport. Kid chose top-ranked in-state college, and though disappointed to let dream school go, took a very mature attitude about not wanting to be saddled with loans and is now thrilled about decision.

What isn't a myth: You do usually get to go to a college you're happy with, it just may not be your dream school. But that's OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private tutoring is the best investment you could ever make. Bs turn to As, 90-percentile SAT turns to 95-percentile.

Yeah -- and your kid learns to rely on mom, dad and the tutor to fix everything for her.

Last time I checked, the student being tutored actually has to do WORK to understand concepts and pass the exams. Are you just sending your to SAT cold turkey? Good luck with that.

The question of who does the work is interesting, especially in history and English, where tutors will often write papers. And, actually, our kids didn't take the SAT cold, but did use the free resources available online. It worked out fine for them since they're good test-takers, motivated, and excellent students; all three graduated from or are currently attending schools ranked in USNWF top 10.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start talking about money early. Involve your child. If you can full pay a 60K a year college, then fantastic. If not, you need to have transparent conversations about what is possible. How much is saved, how much you can cash flow, and if you are willing to take on debt. Don't let your child fall in love with a college that will be unaffordable. The financial aid fairy is not coming for the vast majority of DCUMers, even those who think they are "middle class."

+1

Biggest myth out there: If you can get into a school, the money will work out. <---NOT TRUE

This is a great one. My kid was a recruited athlete who had offers at some great schools. Unfortunately, even with merit aid, which kid qualified for, there is only so much you can do to bring down tuition topping $60,000 a year at a private school. In the end, it didn't matter how much kid wanted them or they wanted kid, the money didn't magically appear and we refused to shell out more than in-state tuition for the privilege of playing a sport. Kid chose top-ranked in-state college, and though disappointed to let dream school go, took a very mature attitude about not wanting to be saddled with loans and is now thrilled about decision.

What isn't a myth: You do usually get to go to a college you're happy with, it just may not be your dream school. But that's OK.

Thanks. We will most likely go the route of letting our DC consider and look at schools even if the sticker price is too high with the understanding that we can only go so high. If in the end it exceeds that amount then so be it.

We haven't looked into aid eligibility, but my fear is that we will make too much to qualify but not quite enough to afford not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start talking about money early. Involve your child. If you can full pay a 60K a year college, then fantastic. If not, you need to have transparent conversations about what is possible. How much is saved, how much you can cash flow, and if you are willing to take on debt. Don't let your child fall in love with a college that will be unaffordable. The financial aid fairy is not coming for the vast majority of DCUMers, even those who think they are "middle class."

+1

Biggest myth out there: If you can get into a school, the money will work out. <---NOT TRUE

This is a great one. My kid was a recruited athlete who had offers at some great schools. Unfortunately, even with merit aid, which kid qualified for, there is only so much you can do to bring down tuition topping $60,000 a year at a private school. In the end, it didn't matter how much kid wanted them or they wanted kid, the money didn't magically appear and we refused to shell out more than in-state tuition for the privilege of playing a sport. Kid chose top-ranked in-state college, and though disappointed to let dream school go, took a very mature attitude about not wanting to be saddled with loans and is now thrilled about decision.

What isn't a myth: You do usually get to go to a college you're happy with, it just may not be your dream school. But that's OK.

Thanks. We will most likely go the route of letting our DC consider and look at schools even if the sticker price is too high with the understanding that we can only go so high. If in the end it exceeds that amount then so be it.

OK, you asked what we wish we had known in 10th Grade. At least 3 different people have said to have the money talk before you even start looking at colleges, and don't look at colleges you can't afford. But you seem like you're going to disregard that advice - certainly your choice, but understand you are doing that at your peril. Your kid could fall in love with some $67,000 school and then when it turns out you don't get merit aid and can't afford it, she is going to be bitterly disappointed that you're not making her dream come true.

We are giving this advice through hard-earned experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out what your college budget is and then let your kid know. If $ is no object, great. But if you are limited to public schools, and private schools that will meet your demonstrated need and/or offer merit $, you need to let her know that. This will shape the list of schools you consider.

Other than that, nothing is more important that taking a rigorous course of study in Grade 11 and doing very well. She can always add an extra-curricular or 2, but the truth is that if she isn't already highly engaged in something and on track for a meaningful leadership position, then the extra-curricular probably won't matter much.

Also, figuring out a testing schedule is a great idea. Only reason to take Subject Test in Grade 10 is if she is in an AP class this year, and can use final AP exam prep as Subject Test prep.

We have a junior who is starting to look at schools. Right now it's a fairly wide net and we haven't restricted any interest (DC has been slow to build interest in looking). Is there any way to gauge need or merit? I guess what I'm wondering is, I'd hate to say no based on the cost when I have no idea how much merit might be offered down the line.

What can you afford to pay for four years? That is your starting point.

To gauge need: Run Net Price Calculators (NPC) for each school and determine your Expected Family Contribution (EFC) at the FAFSA website.

To gauge merit aid: Look at the Common Data Set (CDS) for each school to determine if (1) it awards merit aid (many don't, most do, lose your attachment to brand names if you need it); and (2) whether your child is in the top 25% of admitted students, stats-wise. Being in the top quartile will likely translate to merit aid.

The book The College Solution is an excellent step by step guide to finding a school that is both the right fit and affordable for you.

Great advice!

This is the sobering reality:




http://www.forbes.com/sites/troyonink/2017/01/08/2017-guide-to-college-financial-aid-the-fafsa-and-css-profile/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private tutoring is the best investment you could ever make. Bs turn to As, 90-percentile SAT turns to 95-percentile.

Yeah -- and your kid learns to rely on mom, dad and the tutor to fix everything for her.

Last time I checked, the student being tutored actually has to do WORK to understand concepts and pass the exams. Are you just sending your to SAT cold turkey? Good luck with that.

NP here. Actually sent 2 kids off to SAT and ACT without any tutoring (save a practice test, I administered to the one who didn't test as well.) Both scored high enough to earn merit aid. It helps to know your kid before you rush to shell out lots of money for unnecessary tutors. At our public high school some consultant even offered a free service to have your kids take practice ACT and SATs to assess which one they were likely to do better on. As both my kids were time-strapped with other activities and requirements, it was a godsend to only have to take one test one time.

And while I think tutors can be valuable if you're really stuck, I agree that it isn't a perfect lesson for the real world. I have a child who routinely goes on and on about not getting stuff etc. So far he's been able to figure things out between asking the teacher and really working at the problems on his own. I think this is a valuable skill until they really do get stuck. Kind of like not picking up a baby the first time they let out a little cry.

That's great for you, really. But, most kids need to prepare intensely for the SAT, the GRE, the LSAT, the NCLEX, the Series 7, and on and on and on. Teaching kids about the importance of preparation and hard work is not relying on mom & dad, it's called life lessons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private tutoring is the best investment you could ever make. Bs turn to As, 90-percentile SAT turns to 95-percentile.

Yeah -- and your kid learns to rely on mom, dad and the tutor to fix everything for her.

Last time I checked, the student being tutored actually has to do WORK to understand concepts and pass the exams. Are you just sending your to SAT cold turkey? Good luck with that.

NP here. Actually sent 2 kids off to SAT and ACT without any tutoring (save a practice test, I administered to the one who didn't test as well.) Both scored high enough to earn merit aid. It helps to know your kid before you rush to shell out lots of money for unnecessary tutors. At our public high school some consultant even offered a free service to have your kids take practice ACT and SATs to assess which one they were likely to do better on. As both my kids were time-strapped with other activities and requirements, it was a godsend to only have to take one test one time.

And while I think tutors can be valuable if you're really stuck, I agree that it isn't a perfect lesson for the real world. I have a child who routinely goes on and on about not getting stuff etc. So far he's been able to figure things out between asking the teacher and really working at the problems on his own. I think this is a valuable skill until they really do get stuck. Kind of like not picking up a baby the first time they let out a little cry.

That's great for you, really. But, most kids need to prepare intensely for the SAT, the GRE, the LSAT, the NCLEX, the Series 7, and on and on and on. Teaching kids about the importance of preparation and hard work is not relying on mom & dad, it's called life lessons.

I disagree. I see these tests as measuring one's abilities in a certain area, and as such they need to be a pretty accurate view into their potential for success. Why should at 1200 SAT kid feel he has to get to 1500 if he's not looking at a "top 10" school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Start talking about money early. Involve your child. If you can full pay a 60K a year college, then fantastic. If not, you need to have transparent conversations about what is possible. How much is saved, how much you can cash flow, and if you are willing to take on debt. Don't let your child fall in love with a college that will be unaffordable. The financial aid fairy is not coming for the vast majority of DCUMers, even those who think they are "middle class."

+1

Biggest myth out there: If you can get into a school, the money will work out. <---NOT TRUE

This is a great one. My kid was a recruited athlete who had offers at some great schools. Unfortunately, even with merit aid, which kid qualified for, there is only so much you can do to bring down tuition topping $60,000 a year at a private school. In the end, it didn't matter how much kid wanted them or they wanted kid, the money didn't magically appear and we refused to shell out more than in-state tuition for the privilege of playing a sport. Kid chose top-ranked in-state college, and though disappointed to let dream school go, took a very mature attitude about not wanting to be saddled with loans and is now thrilled about decision.

What isn't a myth: You do usually get to go to a college you're happy with, it just may not be your dream school. But that's OK.

Thanks. We will most likely go the route of letting our DC consider and look at schools even if the sticker price is too high with the understanding that we can only go so high. If in the end it exceeds that amount then so be it.

OK, you asked what we wish we had known in 10th Grade. At least 3 different people have said to have the money talk before you even start looking at colleges, and don't look at colleges you can't afford. But you seem like you're going to disregard that advice - certainly your choice, but understand you are doing that at your peril. Your kid could fall in love with some $67,000 school and then when it turns out you don't get merit aid and can't afford it, she is going to be bitterly disappointed that you're not making her dream come true.

We are giving this advice through hard-earned experience.

This is OP. I wholeheartedly agree with the advice! I'm not the one that responded above. Thanks to everyone for all the advice so far! I'm taking it all in. Good stuff here!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Private tutoring is the best investment you could ever make. Bs turn to As, 90-percentile SAT turns to 95-percentile.

Yeah -- and your kid learns to rely on mom, dad and the tutor to fix everything for her.

Last time I checked, the student being tutored actually has to do WORK to understand concepts and pass the exams. Are you just sending your to SAT cold turkey? Good luck with that.

NP here. Actually sent 2 kids off to SAT and ACT without any tutoring (save a practice test, I administered to the one who didn't test as well.) Both scored high enough to earn merit aid. It helps to know your kid before you rush to shell out lots of money for unnecessary tutors. At our public high school some consultant even offered a free service to have your kids take practice ACT and SATs to assess which one they were likely to do better on. As both my kids were time-strapped with other activities and requirements, it was a godsend to only have to take one test one time.

And while I think tutors can be valuable if you're really stuck, I agree that it isn't a perfect lesson for the real world. I have a child who routinely goes on and on about not getting stuff etc. So far he's been able to figure things out between asking the teacher and really working at the problems on his own. I think this is a valuable skill until they really do get stuck. Kind of like not picking up a baby the first time they let out a little cry.

That's great for you, really. But, most kids need to prepare intensely for the SAT, the GRE, the LSAT, the NCLEX, the Series 7, and on and on and on. Teaching kids about the importance of preparation and hard work is not relying on mom & dad, it's called life lessons.

Where do you get MOST? My kids aren't brilliant but they didn't prepare for the SAT and did fine. Back in the day, NO ONE prepped. I think this is more fear-mongering by folks who started prepping their kids for the cogAT and preschool entrance exams. Yes, you want to help your kids maximize their test scores since schools do have certain cut-offs, but I see so many neat kids spending all these nights and weekends in SAT prep class learning test strategies when they might actually be using that time to do something to make themselves more interesting -- and attractive -- applicants.