College soccer. How good do you need to make a decent team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a good article on the role of ODP from a few years ago: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535

One of the ODP coaches mentioned had this quote: "Our job in the ODP, in my opinion, is going deeper into the communities and going where we never went before."

This is what I'd like to see ODP move toward. DA, ECNL, and National league players don't need ODP to be noticed or to help them develop, but millions of kids have no access to those teams or to high level feeder teams due to geography, finances, or lack of a soccer culture in their communities. ODP would be doing something hugely important if it focused on kids in those areas instead of working in areas like the suburban metro DC market, where there is already an overabundance of expensive soccer training options.

Agree with you about where ODP should go into other areas but it should NOT ignore the suburban DC market as many are not in clubs with the opportunity for exposure and certainly not all can afford the expensive soccer training as options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignore it as a way in to college, or the way to pay for college. Please.

no - don't listen to this OP. esp if you are asian or unhooked kid. My siblings were all a decade younger than me and we pushed them in soccer as a way to get a hook that otherwise wouldn't have nabbed them acceptance to 'top schools'. i.e. your typical 2100/2150, top 10% student that gets shut out of ivies or top slacs because they are non-urm and un-hooked.

Yeah, it can help you get in, but you still have to have great academic stats for those schools. (A superstar can probably get into an Ivy with less-than-great academics but each team will probably have a few.)

pp you are responding to - perhaps we have different criteria for what is 'great academic stats' but i don't consider 2100-2200 sat/top 10% student in middle class flyover public to be great academic stats. however that was above the median for the soccer teams my siblings played in at their ivies and slac.

there are tens of thousands of students nationwide with those stats. while the ivies use the academic index, it dips pretty low IMO for athletes. but then again it depends what you define as great or not.

great for me is 2250+/top 2-5% class ranked kid at a competitive HS.

What was the median for your siblings' teams? I'm guessing 2000-ish SAT?

I do consider 2100+ (or 1400+ back in my day) to be great. It's in the ballpark for most Ivies and SLAC without the athletics.

From what I understand, Ivies can dip really low (maybe 1800-ish) for a few studs, possibly even a little lower in hockey/basketball.

it isn't int he ballpark for Ivies these days for Asians or White girls without other hooks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a good article on the role of ODP from a few years ago: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535

One of the ODP coaches mentioned had this quote: "Our job in the ODP, in my opinion, is going deeper into the communities and going where we never went before."

This is what I'd like to see ODP move toward. DA, ECNL, and National league players don't need ODP to be noticed or to help them develop, but millions of kids have no access to those teams or to high level feeder teams due to geography, finances, or lack of a soccer culture in their communities. ODP would be doing something hugely important if it focused on kids in those areas instead of working in areas like the suburban metro DC market, where there is already an overabundance of expensive soccer training options.

Agree with you about where ODP should go into other areas but it should NOT ignore the suburban DC market as many are not in clubs with the opportunity for exposure and certainly not all can afford the expensive soccer training as options.

But isn't ODP just another expensive training option? Also, if a club in this area does not offer an opportunity for exposure to its kids, then I'm hoping its mission is either to offer recreational options for kids (in which case ODP is not needed) or to train kids well with the idea that it will then feed the best ones to teams at other clubs that can offer exposure (in which case ODP would not be needed, though it might be an OK training supplement along the way, albeit an expensive one).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a good article on the role of ODP from a few years ago: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535

One of the ODP coaches mentioned had this quote: "Our job in the ODP, in my opinion, is going deeper into the communities and going where we never went before."

This is what I'd like to see ODP move toward. DA, ECNL, and National league players don't need ODP to be noticed or to help them develop, but millions of kids have no access to those teams or to high level feeder teams due to geography, finances, or lack of a soccer culture in their communities. ODP would be doing something hugely important if it focused on kids in those areas instead of working in areas like the suburban metro DC market, where there is already an overabundance of expensive soccer training options.

Agree with you about where ODP should go into other areas but it should NOT ignore the suburban DC market as many are not in clubs with the opportunity for exposure and certainly not all can afford the expensive soccer training as options.

But isn't ODP just another expensive training option? Also, if a club in this area does not offer an opportunity for exposure to its kids, then I'm hoping its mission is either to offer recreational options for kids (in which case ODP is not needed) or to train kids well with the idea that it will then feed the best ones to teams at other clubs that can offer exposure (in which case ODP would not be needed, though it might be an OK training supplement along the way, albeit an expensive one).

ODP is a scouting process, not a training option. The higher the player climbs the more you spend obviously. The "training" fees are in line with any other private training company that you would sign up for. The difference is the sessions are essentially tryouts. In many cases once you make the State level and up the coaches are often college coaches, especially at the Regional level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a good article on the role of ODP from a few years ago: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535

One of the ODP coaches mentioned had this quote: "Our job in the ODP, in my opinion, is going deeper into the communities and going where we never went before."

This is what I'd like to see ODP move toward. DA, ECNL, and National league players don't need ODP to be noticed or to help them develop, but millions of kids have no access to those teams or to high level feeder teams due to geography, finances, or lack of a soccer culture in their communities. ODP would be doing something hugely important if it focused on kids in those areas instead of working in areas like the suburban metro DC market, where there is already an overabundance of expensive soccer training options.

Agree with you about where ODP should go into other areas but it should NOT ignore the suburban DC market as many are not in clubs with the opportunity for exposure and certainly not all can afford the expensive soccer training as options.

But isn't ODP just another expensive training option? Also, if a club in this area does not offer an opportunity for exposure to its kids, then I'm hoping its mission is either to offer recreational options for kids (in which case ODP is not needed) or to train kids well with the idea that it will then feed the best ones to teams at other clubs that can offer exposure (in which case ODP would not be needed, though it might be an OK training supplement along the way, albeit an expensive one).

ODP is a scouting process, not a training option. The higher the player climbs the more you spend obviously. The "training" fees are in line with any other private training company that you would sign up for. The difference is the sessions are essentially tryouts. In many cases once you make the State level and up the coaches are often college coaches, especially at the Regional level.

If you are looking at ODP as primarily a scouting process, my point is only that it's mostly redundant in an area like ours where there is a large variety of geographically convenient options for exposure. And soon there will be even more with the girls' DA and the boys' version of ECNL coming next year.

If a small club plus ODP regional/national experience offered exposure for a much lower price, then I might have a different view of it, but around here it seems like most kids who are in ODP at the higher levels also belong to the big expensive clubs. See this Virginia roster as an example: http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/2016_odp_championship_2000_boys_rosters/ (This roster is also interesting in light of the earlier conversation here about whether it makes sense to add ODP if you are already playing on a National league team--I recognize several of these names from looking at National league rosters.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought this was a good article on the role of ODP from a few years ago: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/club-soccer-articles/the-role-of-odp-in-american-youth-soccer_aid28535

One of the ODP coaches mentioned had this quote: "Our job in the ODP, in my opinion, is going deeper into the communities and going where we never went before."

This is what I'd like to see ODP move toward. DA, ECNL, and National league players don't need ODP to be noticed or to help them develop, but millions of kids have no access to those teams or to high level feeder teams due to geography, finances, or lack of a soccer culture in their communities. ODP would be doing something hugely important if it focused on kids in those areas instead of working in areas like the suburban metro DC market, where there is already an overabundance of expensive soccer training options.

Agree with you about where ODP should go into other areas but it should NOT ignore the suburban DC market as many are not in clubs with the opportunity for exposure and certainly not all can afford the expensive soccer training as options.

But isn't ODP just another expensive training option? Also, if a club in this area does not offer an opportunity for exposure to its kids, then I'm hoping its mission is either to offer recreational options for kids (in which case ODP is not needed) or to train kids well with the idea that it will then feed the best ones to teams at other clubs that can offer exposure (in which case ODP would not be needed, though it might be an OK training supplement along the way, albeit an expensive one).

ODP is a scouting process, not a training option. The higher the player climbs the more you spend obviously. The "training" fees are in line with any other private training company that you would sign up for. The difference is the sessions are essentially tryouts. In many cases once you make the State level and up the coaches are often college coaches, especially at the Regional level.

If you are looking at ODP as primarily a scouting process, my point is only that it's mostly redundant in an area like ours where there is a large variety of geographically convenient options for exposure. And soon there will be even more with the girls' DA and the boys' version of ECNL coming next year.

If a small club plus ODP regional/national experience offered exposure for a much lower price, then I might have a different view of it, but around here it seems like most kids who are in ODP at the higher levels also belong to the big expensive clubs. See this Virginia roster as an example: http://www.usyouthsoccer.org/odp/2016_odp_championship_2000_boys_rosters/ (This roster is also interesting in light of the earlier conversation here about whether it makes sense to add ODP if you are already playing on a National league team--I recognize several of these names from looking at National league rosters.)

I have been speaking as a parent of a female player. I think ODP is different in regards to its benefit in this regard. For girls, ODP still has value, less so for boys. That said, there is still value in the process. ODP will challenge players to play in different positions, with different players and different coaches. That has an intangible benefit that is correlated to any camp/tryout process.

I will not disagree with your perspective from the boys side.

[Anonymous]

Does there happen to be anyone on this forum who has a DS playing both National League and ODP and is willing to provide their perspective? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Well if it doesnt have value, why are only major clubs represented in that 00 list? They must think it has value

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well if it doesnt have value, why are only major clubs represented in that 00 list? They must think it has value

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that ODP doesn't have value. The two questions being discussed are (1) if your child is a starter on a competitive National league team, should he also consider participating in ODP at the regional or national level in order to increase his chances of college recruitment; and (2) does it make sense for ODP to continue to focus on kids and programs in areas that already have plenty of options for kids to get exposure to college coaches, national league scouts, etc. instead of changing its mission to focus on rural or other areas where kids don't have many ways to get good soccer training or scouting opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if it doesnt have value, why are only major clubs represented in that 00 list? They must think it has value

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that ODP doesn't have value. The two questions being discussed are (1) if your child is a starter on a competitive National league team, should he also consider participating in ODP at the regional or national level in order to increase his chances of college recruitment; and (2) does it make sense for ODP to continue to focus on kids and programs in areas that already have plenty of options for kids to get exposure to college coaches, national league scouts, etc. instead of changing its mission to focus on rural or other areas where kids don't have many ways to get good soccer training or scouting opportunities.

Again, I think your point pertains to the boys side and that needs to be stated.

But regardless of boy/girl, National League/ECNL, unless you are a top 4 player on your respective team one should not turn down any opportunity for further exposure to more and more coaches.

Just being on the team is not necessarily a golden ticket.

Now lets look at the boys side. The boys side has an established DA the National League is essentially the "best of the rest". The reason why ODP has taken a talent hit on the boys side is because DA players are not allowed to participate. That is a huge talent drain. DA players are looked at first by colleges and Pro teams which leaves the remaing roster spots for the kids playing in the National League.

So while there are spots, if we are talking competitive D1 colleges then you MUST be a top four player on your team to even get noticed. It is just a numbers game and the best way to combat numbers that are not in your players favor is to increase the numbers of coaches who can see your kid play. ODP is just one of those options. College ID Camps are among the other options. But the more coaches you know, the more contacts you have the better your chances can only be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if it doesnt have value, why are only major clubs represented in that 00 list? They must think it has value

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that ODP doesn't have value. The two questions being discussed are (1) if your child is a starter on a competitive National league team, should he also consider participating in ODP at the regional or national level in order to increase his chances of college recruitment; and (2) does it make sense for ODP to continue to focus on kids and programs in areas that already have plenty of options for kids to get exposure to college coaches, national league scouts, etc. instead of changing its mission to focus on rural or other areas where kids don't have many ways to get good soccer training or scouting opportunities.

Again, I think your point pertains to the boys side and that needs to be stated.

But regardless of boy/girl, National League/ECNL, unless you are a top 4 player on your respective team one should not turn down any opportunity for further exposure to more and more coaches.

Just being on the team is not necessarily a golden ticket.

Now lets look at the boys side. The boys side has an established DA the National League is essentially the "best of the rest". The reason why ODP has taken a talent hit on the boys side is because DA players are not allowed to participate. That is a huge talent drain. DA players are looked at first by colleges and Pro teams which leaves the remaing roster spots for the kids playing in the National League.

So while there are spots, if we are talking competitive D1 colleges then you MUST be a top four player on your team to even get noticed. It is just a numbers game and the best way to combat numbers that are not in your players favor is to increase the numbers of coaches who can see your kid play. ODP is just one of those options. College ID Camps are among the other options. But the more coaches you know, the more contacts you have the better your chances can only be.

I agree with most everything you've said here, though I don't think we've been limiting the discussion on this thread to what it takes to play on a competitive D1 team. Assume instead we are talking about starters 5-11 on a National league team who would be happy to play on any D1 team or on a highly competitive D3 team (nothing against D2, I just don't really understand it very well). Won't most college coaches give those kids a look if the kids contact them and express an interest in the school/soccer program? If the coach then sees them play at a National league showcase or other tournament and thinks they are talented and can help the college team, they will be interested in recruiting the kid, right? A good showing at an ODP showcase might draw the interest of a broader swath of coaches, but you really only need the interest of coaches from schools you'd like to go to.

I can understand the theory that the more showcase opportunities you can get, the better. It's just that it's hard enough for kids to balance high level sports and academics to start with, and if you feel pressure to add in a second soccer program (or third, if you include HS) so you won't be overshadowed by others, it places more strain on the kids and families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well if it doesnt have value, why are only major clubs represented in that 00 list? They must think it has value

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that ODP doesn't have value. The two questions being discussed are (1) if your child is a starter on a competitive National league team, should he also consider participating in ODP at the regional or national level in order to increase his chances of college recruitment; and (2) does it make sense for ODP to continue to focus on kids and programs in areas that already have plenty of options for kids to get exposure to college coaches, national league scouts, etc. instead of changing its mission to focus on rural or other areas where kids don't have many ways to get good soccer training or scouting opportunities.

Again, I think your point pertains to the boys side and that needs to be stated.

But regardless of boy/girl, National League/ECNL, unless you are a top 4 player on your respective team one should not turn down any opportunity for further exposure to more and more coaches.

Just being on the team is not necessarily a golden ticket.

Now lets look at the boys side. The boys side has an established DA the National League is essentially the "best of the rest". The reason why ODP has taken a talent hit on the boys side is because DA players are not allowed to participate. That is a huge talent drain. DA players are looked at first by colleges and Pro teams which leaves the remaing roster spots for the kids playing in the National League.

So while there are spots, if we are talking competitive D1 colleges then you MUST be a top four player on your team to even get noticed. It is just a numbers game and the best way to combat numbers that are not in your players favor is to increase the numbers of coaches who can see your kid play. ODP is just one of those options. College ID Camps are among the other options. But the more coaches you know, the more contacts you have the better your chances can only be.

I agree with most everything you've said here, though I don't think we've been limiting the discussion on this thread to what it takes to play on a competitive D1 team. Assume instead we are talking about starters 5-11 on a National league team who would be happy to play on any D1 team or on a highly competitive D3 team (nothing against D2, I just don't really understand it very well). Won't most college coaches give those kids a look if the kids contact them and express an interest in the school/soccer program? If the coach then sees them play at a National league showcase or other tournament and thinks they are talented and can help the college team, they will be interested in recruiting the kid, right? A good showing at an ODP showcase might draw the interest of a broader swath of coaches, but you really only need the interest of coaches from schools you'd like to go to.

I can understand the theory that the more showcase opportunities you can get, the better. It's just that it's hard enough for kids to balance high level sports and academics to start with, and if you feel pressure to add in a second soccer program (or third, if you include HS) so you won't be overshadowed by others, it places more strain on the kids and families.

All true, but if your kid is playing in a ODP regional tournament and the regular circuit of showcases the ODP tournament is an EXTRA opportunity for the college coach to watch. Since a ODP regional tournament is obviously much smaller there is more attention put on your kid by that same coach in an environment that is more telling about the player.

[Anonymous]

Complete soccer recruiting novice here. What is the best route to get the most accurate assessment of whether our high school DS realistically has D1 potential? He is a solid starter on a very competitive team but plays a popular position and is not consistent enough to be a superstar. Will our coach give us an informed and honest opinion? What kind of summer camps are best for helpful feedback? If you go to one of these "100 coaches in attendance" camps on the one hand, or a specific high-level D1 program school camp like UVA, etc. on the other hand, will DS get informative feedback? Or is it the type of thing where if you don't get any feedback or comments, you know you didn't stand out? Do coaches recruit players directly after or during those camps? Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Complete soccer recruiting novice here. What is the best route to get the most accurate assessment of whether our high school DS realistically has D1 potential? He is a solid starter on a very competitive team but plays a popular position and is not consistent enough to be a superstar. Will our coach give us an informed and honest opinion? What kind of summer camps are best for helpful feedback? If you go to one of these "100 coaches in attendance" camps on the one hand, or a specific high-level D1 program school camp like UVA, etc. on the other hand, will DS get informative feedback? Or is it the type of thing where if you don't get any feedback or comments, you know you didn't stand out? Do coaches recruit players directly after or during those camps? Thanks!

If your coach has been coaching at a decent level for a while, he should be able to give you a pretty good assessment of what level your son is likely to be able to play in college. The technical director at your club also ought to be able to help you out if you are not sure. Have you talked to the other parents on your son's team? Outside of the DA, a lot of recruiting happens junior and even senior year for boys, but most kids will start by sophomore year. I'd suggest talking to any veteran soccer parents on the team to see what they are doing and what suggestions they have.

Also, if your kid is not a soccer standout at this point, it really helps to be start focusing on schools that would be a good academic fit that he'd enjoy attending. If he can narrow that down to a few and target his efforts to be recruited on those schools, he has a better chance of being noticed.

Re the big soccer camps, based on the experience my son and his friends have had, they can in some cases be helpful for feedback purposes. If you are already on a coach's radar as a prospect, they'll invite you to the camp and follow you closely, and they may report back to your coach on how you did. If you get an email after the camp asking you to register your interest with the college, that's a good sign. Some do indeed give written evaluations to all the campers, though generally we haven't found those to be particularly detailed or helpful.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, PP, very helpful. How does a player get on a coach's radar? Our son is a freshman and has not been approached. We have received camp invitations by email addressed to our son but they appear to us to be mass mailings - we assume they are sent to all players from certain tournaments, etc.