Article: as women make more, husbands do less housework

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Atlantic should be ashamed for letting such a poorly researched and written article go to print.

I agree. And it's basically stating, without supporting evidence, that men find it emasculating if they are not the higher earners. That's a really strong word -- emasculating. We haven't learned yet that men are valuable in many ways other than their pay checks? (Just as women are).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bigger houses?

This. Americans live in monstrosities!

[Anonymous]

As a French woman, I speculate these reasons may be why the French percentage is so low for women (at least in larger cities):

1) France has amazing, subsidized and in many cases free creche (daycare), with fantastic teachers and communities, and fabulous food. Children can start going at just a few months old. Hours are good too, full day. This allows more women to go back to work. Less children and mess at home.

2) French schools go all day, the entire academic day is like extended day end time. Many get out anywhere between 5-6pm. This is on purpose, to support working parents. Also children do not bring lunch to school. Everyone eats school lunch. So no one is packing lunch for kids. And no one is running around to after school activities since school gets out late.

3). Frozen grocery stores (like Picard) are pretty popular. Think of it as an entire store of awesome Trader Joes frozen meals, apps, desserts, etc. So for the busy parent, since their kids usually got a 4 course healthy and home cooked meal at school for lunch, they don't stress about the dinner, at least during the week. Often times it is something from Picard, or a rotisserie chicken picked up from the butcher or a soup.

4). Breakfast isn't a big deal, people grab nutelle tartin or fruit or whatever. So basically mom and dad don't have to do much cooking.

5). Housekeepers/cleaning ladies are very common and very affordable and often very good. For a pretty decent and fair price, you can get your entire flat deep cleaned twice a week and that includes washing, drying and ironing your clothes and sheets. No shit. Twice a week.


So as for cooking, cleaning, laundry and childcare, women have it pretty well in France.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Atlantic should be ashamed for letting such a poorly researched and written article go to print.

I agree. And it's basically stating, without supporting evidence, that men find it emasculating if they are not the higher earners. That's a really strong word -- emasculating. We haven't learned yet that men are valuable in many ways other than their pay checks? (Just as women are).

Of course all people are valuable outside of their paychecks. That doesn't meant that there aren't actual statistically recorded dynamics at play when the husband isn't the higher earner. Women who significantly out earn their husbands have a way higher chance of their husband cheating on them. http://jezebel.com/the-downside-to-earning-more-your-husband-is-more-like-1709891922

Have husbands with ED:

A 2013 study by a professor at Washington University’s Olin Business School in St. Louis who collaborated with some Danish colleagues revealed that in relationships where women made slightly more than their spouses, men were 10% more likely to need prescription medication for erectile dysfunction, insomnia and anxiety, and the greater the income gap, the more problems men had with ED.

From http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2014/04/21/how-women-breadwinners-can-save-their-relationships/#5469115639a7

And feel, yes, emasculated:

For women, the shift in economic power gives them new choices, not least among them the ability to reappraise their partner. And husbands, for their part, may find to their chagrin that being financially dependent isn’t exactly a turn-on. According to psychologists (and divorce lawyers) who see couples struggling with such changes, many relationships follow the same pattern. First, the wife starts to lose respect for her husband, then he begins to feel emasculated, and then sex dwindles to a full stop.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/features/n_9495/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess the wage gap myth can die. Women are graduating colleges and getting jobs at higher rates.

In any case - let's define housework as well. I don't vacuum, do laundry very much if at all. Know what I've done? Put in new floors, built a garden, all outdoor work, maintain vehicles to the best of my abilities (I'll take it in for complex stuff), replace lighting fixtures, outlets, plumbing (I outsource hard stuff, plumbing can ruin your house if you mess up..trust me), pet upkeep (feeding, walks, vet visits)...

So let's see them break up that. How many women now the lawn, out in floors, do demolition or repair things? Not many I reckon.

My husband does this stuff. We make roughly the same amount of money. He was gone for a year, and it cost me about $2500 to outsource this stuff. I bet it would cost roughly ten times that to outsource all of the day to day cooking, cleaning, and childcare that I do in addition to my full time job. It isn't the complexity of it...it's the everyday ness of it.

Childcare is only expensive because it's overpriced and people pay it. Maid service for a 4000 sq ft house like mine is about 175 a month. We do the real dirty stuff but the vacuuming, cleaning kitchen bathrooms? That's them. Sorry your numbers don't add up

Plus, my wife meal preps on Sunday and does almost all our lunches and dinners for the week minus a couple of days of going out and it doesn't take her that long. A few hours. I pick up what she wants from the store and she makes some good stuff with it. That's not worth 10 times the amount of money you're claiming

I am going to guess that to have someone come in once a week and do alll of the laundry, grocery shopping, meal prep for a family of five, plus cleaning the kitchen and generally tidying up is going to cost about $200 ($20/hr x 10 hours). Then the $175/mo for deep cleaning. Then a sitter five days a week to get kids to school at $15/hr x 10 hrs a week plus someone to watch them on Saturdays so he can go to visit a friend $15 x 4 hours/wk. So, $800/mo + $175/mo + $840/mo= $1815/mo x 12 months= about $22000.

You're moving the goalposts. Why would you pay for someone to do grocery shopping? Or generally tidying up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw that. I was curious about some of the phrasing in this paragraph:

"American women tend to do more housework than women in other countries—about four and a half hours each week, on average. “Meanwhile, Spanish women only spend about an hour and a half a week on housework, Brazilian women spend only 1.6 hours a week,” they write. But “French women spend almost no time on housework at all. French men, on the other hand, spend 1.2 hours a week on housework, well more than the .8 hours a week spent by American men.” (Ladies, your secret, s'il vous plaît!) Also, “Japanese and Slovenian men do the most housework, at 1.3 and 1.4 hours a week.”"

From that, it's not clear to me whether Spanish and Brazilian men are spending more time on housework than American men. It seems to glory in French men doing 1.2 hours per week of housework but, if you do the math on the 15 minutes per day it says American men do on housework, that works out to 1.05 hours per week -- or a difference of about 9 minutes per week. (Though there is some conflicting information in the article, in one place, it says 15 minutes per day while in another, it says 0.8 per week -- which would be 6.9 minutes per day.)

But, why the hell are American women spending 3.15 hours per week on housework when nobody else comes close?

My guess is because Americans have so much crap in their homes that need constant putting away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw that. I was curious about some of the phrasing in this paragraph:

"American women tend to do more housework than women in other countries—about four and a half hours each week, on average. “Meanwhile, Spanish women only spend about an hour and a half a week on housework, Brazilian women spend only 1.6 hours a week,” they write. But “French women spend almost no time on housework at all. French men, on the other hand, spend 1.2 hours a week on housework, well more than the .8 hours a week spent by American men.” (Ladies, your secret, s'il vous plaît!) Also, “Japanese and Slovenian men do the most housework, at 1.3 and 1.4 hours a week.”"

From that, it's not clear to me whether Spanish and Brazilian men are spending more time on housework than American men. It seems to glory in French men doing 1.2 hours per week of housework but, if you do the math on the 15 minutes per day it says American men do on housework, that works out to 1.05 hours per week -- or a difference of about 9 minutes per week. (Though there is some conflicting information in the article, in one place, it says 15 minutes per day while in another, it says 0.8 per week -- which would be 6.9 minutes per day.)

But, why the hell are American women spending 3.15 hours per week on housework when nobody else comes close?

I haven't read theough the responses, but I'm from Peru and women there might not be able to afford a washer and dryer, but we sure as hell manage to afford a housekeeper. American women are CRAAAAZY with their near religious obsession with doing it all. My frienfs and meighbors look at me like I'm nuts that i have someone come in 3 days a week to do housekeeping here. I dont ever do laundry, change sheets, sweep floors or vaccuum.

Wait a sec....the only reason Americans don't have housekeepers is because it's expensive here. Is it as expensive in Peru?!
I don't know anyone who loves to clean (I actually have one crazy friend but she's an exception!)'

[Anonymous]

Wow. Men really are disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I saw that. I was curious about some of the phrasing in this paragraph:

"American women tend to do more housework than women in other countries—about four and a half hours each week, on average. “Meanwhile, Spanish women only spend about an hour and a half a week on housework, Brazilian women spend only 1.6 hours a week,” they write. But “French women spend almost no time on housework at all. French men, on the other hand, spend 1.2 hours a week on housework, well more than the .8 hours a week spent by American men.” (Ladies, your secret, s'il vous plaît!) Also, “Japanese and Slovenian men do the most housework, at 1.3 and 1.4 hours a week.”"

From that, it's not clear to me whether Spanish and Brazilian men are spending more time on housework than American men. It seems to glory in French men doing 1.2 hours per week of housework but, if you do the math on the 15 minutes per day it says American men do on housework, that works out to 1.05 hours per week -- or a difference of about 9 minutes per week. (Though there is some conflicting information in the article, in one place, it says 15 minutes per day while in another, it says 0.8 per week -- which would be 6.9 minutes per day.)

But, why the hell are American women spending 3.15 hours per week on housework when nobody else comes close?

I haven't read theough the responses, but I'm from Peru and women there might not be able to afford a washer and dryer, but we sure as hell manage to afford a housekeeper. American women are CRAAAAZY with their near religious obsession with doing it all. My frienfs and meighbors look at me like I'm nuts that i have someone come in 3 days a week to do housekeeping here. I dont ever do laundry, change sheets, sweep floors or vaccuum.

Wait a sec....the only reason Americans don't have housekeepers is because it's expensive here. Is it as expensive in Peru?!
I don't know anyone who loves to clean (I actually have one crazy friend but she's an exception!)'

I find that American womennhave a bit of aartyr complex whrn itncomes tondomestic duties.

It absolutely is less expensive in Peru, even the most remotely middle class peiple have help. Especially afyer a woman has kids and doesn't work, she still has someone come in and help with cleaning, cooking, and childcare.it isnuniqiely American that you don't make room in the budget for domestic help. The woeld over women have figured it out that it is easier to outsource these things.

I moved here when we were 24 years old. I made 50k/yr and still had a weekly housecleaner and didn't even have kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So I guess the wage gap myth can die. Women are graduating colleges and getting jobs at higher rates.

In any case - let's define housework as well. I don't vacuum, do laundry very much if at all. Know what I've done? Put in new floors, built a garden, all outdoor work, maintain vehicles to the best of my abilities (I'll take it in for complex stuff), replace lighting fixtures, outlets, plumbing (I outsource hard stuff, plumbing can ruin your house if you mess up..trust me), pet upkeep (feeding, walks, vet visits)...

So let's see them break up that. How many women now the lawn, out in floors, do demolition or repair things? Not many I reckon.

I've done most of these things too. Minus plumbing (beyond replacing toilet guts). Plus drywall repair and all of the a/v in our house. Bike repair. We outsourced the deck - excavation is a back breaking bitch. Used to paint and powerwash in younger days, but outsource that now.

Does your DH help at all? Mine will help, but I'm generally more handy. I hate more typical housework. I never do dishes unless DH is out of town.

[Anonymous]

This is actually not true in my house at all. When I work more and make more, my DH really steps up his housework game. He loves when I make $$ and I think he tries to "reward" me by taking more of the housework load.

[Anonymous]

Regardless of how much or how little I have ever made, DH has always done more housework than me. Right now im having a grest year (sales) and am out earning him. He is simply a cleaner more organized person. He cannot stand to look at a mess. I feel bad because i exasperste him. I wish i were more diligent, if anything, to be a better housemate. I know what really drives him nuts is the pile of dirty clothes i lrave next to the bed or the fact that i dont make the bed if I'm the last person out of it. He has done everything for me, built me an amazing walk in closet with floor to ceiling shelves, drawers and accessory holders, built me a beautiful office with every kind of storage, had built a mudroom that is glorious ...but I can't get my shit together
I'm like a 3rd child.

I hope the kids inherit his cleanliness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess the wage gap myth can die. Women are graduating colleges and getting jobs at higher rates.

In any case - let's define housework as well. I don't vacuum, do laundry very much if at all. Know what I've done? Put in new floors, built a garden, all outdoor work, maintain vehicles to the best of my abilities (I'll take it in for complex stuff), replace lighting fixtures, outlets, plumbing (I outsource hard stuff, plumbing can ruin your house if you mess up..trust me), pet upkeep (feeding, walks, vet visits)...

So let's see them break up that. How many women now the lawn, out in floors, do demolition or repair things? Not many I reckon.

What EVER are lesbian couples to do without MEN to help take care of these things?

Get over yourself.

That's and exception, not the norm. And I'm still going to say not many. I'd also like to add, I have yet to see one female handyman or builder. They just don't get into that line of work because it's "men work". This is why they don't do it themselves either. I have yet to see a woman build a deck. I have.

I don't get your point. Your saying that the article should allow for people like you while simultaneously whining/bragging about how few people are like you?

That seems dumb. If you are such a rare deck buildin hoss of a unicorn why should the study include outliers like you with hobbies? That isn't housework.

Okay, complex issues like decks and installing floors not included, other maintenance tasks like auto repair, electrical work, plumbing, simple HVAC should be. As should outdoor work. Think it's easy building mumtiole garden boxes and putting a nice fence around it? Or cutting down tree branches or climbing on the roof cleaning out filth from the gutters? It needs to be defined, what is "housework"?

It's comparing apples to oranges. Some of these activities only take place a couple times a year like cleaning gutters or cutting down trees branches. Others are one time projects even if they take multiple weeks to complete like garden boxes. But indoor housework like cooking/cleaning/laundry/etc needs to happen on a daily or weekly basis.

This is BS. There isn't a week that goes by where there isn't a list of things to do that takes hours.

Wanna switch? Fine. You can fix the garage door you broke on Tuesday. Or replant the garden the kids tore up while playing. Or replace a bunch of wall sockets because you want ones that have integrated USB charging capacity. Or fix the dishwasher because it got jammed with the glass you broke but failed to clean up thinking it would magically wash away. Or rake leaves, its fall now. Plus the fall plantings, etc.

Get the point?

I'm a dw and the handy one in our house and I've done all of these except the garage door (no garage). I can't build a deck because I'm not physically strong enough to lift that much wood but I've built the shed shelling, basement storage shelving and other various things in the house that are smaller scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I guess the wage gap myth can die. Women are graduating colleges and getting jobs at higher rates.

In any case - let's define housework as well. I don't vacuum, do laundry very much if at all. Know what I've done? Put in new floors, built a garden, all outdoor work, maintain vehicles to the best of my abilities (I'll take it in for complex stuff), replace lighting fixtures, outlets, plumbing (I outsource hard stuff, plumbing can ruin your house if you mess up..trust me), pet upkeep (feeding, walks, vet visits)...

So let's see them break up that. How many women now the lawn, out in floors, do demolition or repair things? Not many I reckon.

My husband does this stuff. We make roughly the same amount of money. He was gone for a year, and it cost me about $2500 to outsource this stuff. I bet it would cost roughly ten times that to outsource all of the day to day cooking, cleaning, and childcare that I do in addition to my full time job. It isn't the complexity of it...it's the everyday ness of it.

Childcare is only expensive because it's overpriced and people pay it. Maid service for a 4000 sq ft house like mine is about 175 a month. We do the real dirty stuff but the vacuuming, cleaning kitchen bathrooms? That's them. Sorry your numbers don't add up

WOW, how does that work? 175 a month? Do you pay them $44 a week or do your kitchen and bathrooms only get cleaned once or twice a MONTH? I live with 4 other people (a husband and three kids). That would be so gross.

+ 1

I hear people say this irl or on these boards and I am kind of astonished. Having your bathrooms cleaned only twice a month is SOOOOO disgusting, especially with three kids who are not yet as fastidious as adults!

[Anonymous]

Everyone I know that lives abroad outsources everything. Household help is very affordable if not cheap in most other places.