So impressed by Fillmore

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you sound crazy.

For PK-5 you don't need specialized classrooms or equipment. Just like you don't need science labs and graphing calculators. The beauty of this age is their creativity in ALL subject and the ability to have art in a science project or math in an art project.

???

Clearly the goal under this level of analysis is NOT to compete with first-world economies. Aim low, I get it.

What does that even mean? You should look into how classes from math to art are taught abroad. Clesrly from your post it will be eye opening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, you sound crazy.

For PK-5 you don't need specialized classrooms or equipment. Just like you don't need science labs and graphing calculators. The beauty of this age is their creativity in ALL subject and the ability to have art in a science project or math in an art project.

???

Clearly the goal under this level of analysis is NOT to compete with first-world economies. Aim low, I get it.

What does that even mean? You should look into how classes from math to art are taught abroad. Clesrly from your post it will be eye opening.

I'm only talking about elementary school art and music. I assume you want me to visit Haiti or Cuba to see "how it's done."

[Anonymous]

I'm neither for nor against your argument. I'm waiting to be persuaded and convinced by either side, and I can assure you that isn't the zinger you think it is.

The vast majority of DC schools (public, parochial, and private) have art and music programs that don't involve Fillmore. That doesn't mean there isn't a justification for Fillmore, but it also doesn't mean that its absence relegates the students to a 3rd world education. There are many resources unique to DC, and schools have many different capabilities. Suggesting that if students at Key or Ross don't go to Fillmore their education will devolve to the state of Cuba or Haiti isn't persuasive, it is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm neither for nor against your argument. I'm waiting to be persuaded and convinced by either side, and I can assure you that isn't the zinger you think it is.

The vast majority of DC schools (public, parochial, and private) have art and music programs that don't involve Fillmore. That doesn't mean there isn't a justification for Fillmore, but it also doesn't mean that its absence relegates the students to a 3rd world education. There are many resources unique to DC, and schools have many different capabilities. Suggesting that if students at Key or Ross don't go to Fillmore their education will devolve to the state of Cuba or Haiti isn't persuasive, it is ridiculous.

Sigh. Go back and read the thread before making false assumptions. In brief: neither Key nor Ross are capable of standing up an in-house arts and music program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm neither for nor against your argument. I'm waiting to be persuaded and convinced by either side, and I can assure you that isn't the zinger you think it is.

The vast majority of DC schools (public, parochial, and private) have art and music programs that don't involve Fillmore. That doesn't mean there isn't a justification for Fillmore, but it also doesn't mean that its absence relegates the students to a 3rd world education. There are many resources unique to DC, and schools have many differe, nt capabilities. Suggesting that if students at Key or Ross don't go to Fillmore their education will devolve to the state of Cuba or Haiti isn't persuasive, it is ridiculous.

Sigh. Go back and read the thread before making false assumptions. In brief: neither Key nor Ross are capable of standing up an in-house arts and music program.

Yes, I read your side of the argument, "sigher". That doesn't mean the opposing side doesn't have any validity as well. Speaking only for myself, I'm weighing them both, and so far am not persuaded definitively towards one or the other. Your assumption that simply stating your case is enough, is intellectually limited. Going for the "If they don't get Fillmore it might as well be Haiti or Cuba!" was hyperbolic and diminished your credibility. There are alternate points of view. There may even be compromise solutions.

[Anonymous]

There was an article on this in the current. This conversation can be summarized as follows:

DCPS: we are spending literally twice the money per student to provide art and music specials to your kids compared to other schools. This isn't fair to other kids, most of whom are much poorer than yours. Sorry, we have to end the program and do specials for you the way we do it elsewhere.

Fillmore families: but Fillmore is way better than what we'd get if you provided specials like you do at other schools!

DCPS: yes, it's twice as good, to be precise. It's not fair.

Fillmore: but some Fillmore schools have space constraints!

DCPS: yes, some do, but we'll work with it as best we can, like at other schools with space constraints that don't have Fillmore, of which there are several.

Fillmore: you have ulterior motives!

DCPS: ...

And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was an article on this in the current. This conversation can be summarized as follows:

DCPS: we are spending literally twice the money per student to provide art and music specials to your kids compared to other schools. This isn't fair to other kids, most of whom are much poorer than yours. Sorry, we have to end the program and do specials for you the way we do it elsewhere.

Fillmore families: but Fillmore is way better than what we'd get if you provided specials like you do at other schools!

DCPS: yes, it's twice as good, to be precise. It's not fair.

Fillmore: but some Fillmore schools have space constraints!

DCPS: yes, some do, but we'll work with it as best we can, like at other schools with space constraints that don't have Fillmore, of which there are several.

Fillmore: you have ulterior motives!

That's some super-trolling effort, right there! Not even worth responding.

DCPS: ...

And so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP high and mighty stuff. As if doing away with something excellent short term (Fillmore) will bring about great quality and equity for all immediately and long term (not). Does the money come from your pocket? Are you a parent? Quality teaching any subject is a crap shoot. Fillmore is a sure thing in terms of arts education and should remain until proven formulas exceed that experience. DCPS has NONE- only empty words about art and PEnfornall (though not really).

Where is the evidence showing that Fillmore is a "sure thing?" How is it's academic value measured? Are the majority of Ellington students from Fillmore feeders? Do Fillmore schools have the highest scores?

I'm just trying to understand the argument that Fillmore is the best thing in arts education because it has better stuff. If it's so great, why did schools like Mann leave? Why shouldn't all schools with no space be able to go or enter a lottery to attend?

I can certainly understand that it's better than nothing for the schools near it that don't have arts at all now. Yes, it should be paid for by DCPS if there are no other viable options and the principals sign off and all parents at Fillmore are fine with the amount of time on the bus versus an arts-integration program on-site at school, but with less stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP high and mighty stuff. As if doing away with something excellent short term (Fillmore) will bring about great quality and equity for all immediately and long term (not). Does the money come from your pocket? Are you a parent? Quality teaching any subject is a crap shoot. Fillmore is a sure thing in terms of arts education and should remain until proven formulas exceed that experience. DCPS has NONE- only empty words about art and PEnfornall (though not really).

Where is the evidence showing that Fillmore is a "sure thing?" How is it's academic value measured? Are the majority of Ellington students from Fillmore feeders? Do Fillmore schools have the highest scores?

I'm just trying to understand the argument that Fillmore is the best thing in arts education because it has better stuff. If it's so great, why did schools like Mann leave? Why shouldn't all schools with no space be able to go or enter a lottery to attend?

I can certainly understand that it's better than nothing for the schools near it that don't have arts at all now. Yes, it should be paid for by DCPS if there are no other viable options and the principals sign off and all parents at Fillmore are fine with the amount of time on the bus versus an arts-integration program on-site at school, but with less stuff.

All you have to do is walk through the halls of Fillmore and peek into the classrooms to see the amazing arts education they're providing. And since when did being a "sure thing" equate to being "the best"? Who knows if it's the best education but it's a far more diverse arts education than anything I've witnessed across the country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
All you have to do is walk through the halls of Fillmore and peek into the classrooms to see the amazing arts education they're providing. And since when did being a "sure thing" equate to being "the best"? Who knows if it's the best education but it's a far more diverse arts education than anything I've witnessed across the country.

And you are ....... an expert in elementary arts education?

Even if it's not "the best," there needs to be some type of justification for the significant additional spending on logistics and (I assume) materials. Not to mention the value of students' time.

Why not have dance and music outside or in the gym/multipurpose room?
Why not have painting and drawing as part of a multi-sensory language arts (English) class?
Why not have one of the many arts organizations in DC send artists in residence to Ross instead of schlepping kids to Georgetown?

If the main problem is that Stoddert, Key, Hyde have NO options for arts education or space, then they should be served by Fillmore. I would even go so far as to say DCPS should pay for transporting those children to Fillmore, assuming there are no other options for arts education.

Nobody is saying Fillmore is bad or the teachers aren't good. In fact, there doesn't seem to be any effort to quantify in any way how Fillmore is valued. There are some very dedicated Boosters who seem to have emotional attachments to Fillmore for historical reasons. But emotion is not a reason to continue to spend scarce resources and use up children's precious time.


If the Fillmore movement can identify sustainable financial models that don't rely on DCPS, they wouldn't have to try so hard to "save" it year after year.