What's the appeal of working on Wall Street?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. Nothing else.

I like money as much as anyone else, but to have to live in NY and work 70+ hours a week to get it? No thank you.

For some it's better than working 70+ hrs in a DC non profit and not making any money.

I agree with that. But most don't work 70+ hours.

I did this - 70 hour weeks for a DC environmental group for about five years. They were five of the best years of my life - doing important work, with people that became good friends (and one who became my husband). No amount of Wall Street money would have been worth giving up that non-profit experience.

That's because you have a soul, and some integrity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Judging by this board, that seems to be a goal of many. I grew up in the South and never heard of anyone aspiring to work on Wall Street, so I have to wonder what the big deal is with it. Yes, I assume the money is good, but aren't the hours horrific? And when people say "work on Wall Street" is that just a euphemism for going into finance or do people literally mean work on Wall Street? That would entail living in Manhattan, which certainly appeals to some, but would be considered dreadful to many others.

My response is a quote from Step Brothers, the best movie ever made: "I want to make BANK, bro. I want to get ASS. I want to drive a Range Rover." That's about it, at least these days.

My parents worked on Wall Street in the 60s, met at work, got married secretly (it was against company policy) and commuted from Scarsdale every day until I came along. My mother wore a hat and gloves to work every day.

In the past, it was a nice stable work environment. I've no idea why anyone would want to work there today, except for money. Plenty of people still commute to Wall Street from Westchester every single day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. A friend moved with family to make $500k a year plus bonus. Plan to make that much for 5 years and then go elsewhere.

That's not that great of a plan, especially with family.

First off it takes around 500k to support a family in Manhattan and send two kids to private school. A two bedroom apartment (kids sharing a room) will be around 5-6k a month. Private school for two kids is 100k a year. Income taxes are extremely high. Buying into a decent coop requires at least 50 percent down and a year of majntenance and mortgage payments in the bank.

In terms of the bonus, bonuses vest over time and only a portion is in cash. So if your friend leaves at year five then he or she will be leaving a lot of money on the table and that will include some of what he or she earned in years 2-5. Most firms vest over a period of three years.

Also then what is this person going to do? It's hard to match a Wall Street salary except maybe out in Silicon Valley. After you're making close to a million a year it's hard to give that up and people are going to find it strange if you are applying for 200k jobs in flyover country. In fact they won't interview you as they will assume something is wrong.

Assuming one lives in Manhattan I guess what you wrote is true. However, Most ppl working in New York with the intention of "saving" choose to commute 30-45 min and save all the money by living in the burbs. You don't have to live in Manhattan to work on Wall street, what a strange assumption.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't get a call-back?

That's so funny -- it actually demonstrates the unimaginative and conformist thinking that leads so many students to finance jobs. You can't imagine that there might be alternatives to going into finance, so you assume that someone who doesn't want to do that just couldn't get an offer. Sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. A friend moved with family to make $500k a year plus bonus. Plan to make that much for 5 years and then go elsewhere.

That's not that great of a plan, especially with family.

First off it takes around 500k to support a family in Manhattan and send two kids to private school. A two bedroom apartment (kids sharing a room) will be around 5-6k a month. Private school for two kids is 100k a year. Income taxes are extremely high. Buying into a decent coop requires at least 50 percent down and a year of majntenance and mortgage payments in the bank.

In terms of the bonus, bonuses vest over time and only a portion is in cash. So if your friend leaves at year five then he or she will be leaving a lot of money on the table and that will include some of what he or she earned in years 2-5. Most firms vest over a period of three years.

Also then what is this person going to do? It's hard to match a Wall Street salary except maybe out in Silicon Valley. After you're making close to a million a year it's hard to give that up and people are going to find it strange if you are applying for 200k jobs in flyover country. In fact they won't interview you as they will assume something is wrong.

Assuming one lives in Manhattan I guess what you wrote is true. However, Most ppl working in New York with the intention of "saving" choose to commute 30-45 min and save all the money by living in the burbs. You don't have to live in Manhattan to work on Wall street, what a strange assumption.

Of course not. But who wants to work a 10-12 hour day and then take the subway to metro north for a 1.5 hour door to door commute? That's three hours a day of commuting.

[Anonymous]

Why are people in here acting like making money isn't a desirable goal? FYI if you said something like that, you MIGHT want to check your privilege. The only people who say money doesn't matter are people who grew up with it and can't imagine life any other way.

These days, most highly educated professionals are expected to work AT LEAST 50 hours a week but usually more. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to spend 10 hours a day at work no matter what, I'd rather make the 500k + (extremely hefty bonus) salary rather than the 50-250k salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. A friend moved with family to make $500k a year plus bonus. Plan to make that much for 5 years and then go elsewhere.

That's not that great of a plan, especially with family.

First off it takes around 500k to support a family in Manhattan and send two kids to private school. A two bedroom apartment (kids sharing a room) will be around 5-6k a month. Private school for two kids is 100k a year. Income taxes are extremely high. Buying into a decent coop requires at least 50 percent down and a year of majntenance and mortgage payments in the bank.

In terms of the bonus, bonuses vest over time and only a portion is in cash. So if your friend leaves at year five then he or she will be leaving a lot of money on the table and that will include some of what he or she earned in years 2-5. Most firms vest over a period of three years.

Also then what is this person going to do? It's hard to match a Wall Street salary except maybe out in Silicon Valley. After you're making close to a million a year it's hard to give that up and people are going to find it strange if you are applying for 200k jobs in flyover country. In fact they won't interview you as they will assume something is wrong.

Assuming one lives in Manhattan I guess what you wrote is true. However, Most ppl working in New York with the intention of "saving" choose to commute 30-45 min and save all the money by living in the burbs. You don't have to live in Manhattan to work on Wall street, what a strange assumption.

Of course not. But who wants to work a 10-12 hour day and then take the subway to metro north for a 1.5 hour door to door commute? That's three hours a day of commuting.

Hundreds if not thousands of people do something like this every day. You sound very naive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are people in here acting like making money isn't a desirable goal? FYI if you said something like that, you MIGHT want to check your privilege. The only people who say money doesn't matter are people who grew up with it and can't imagine life any other way.

These days, most highly educated professionals are expected to work AT LEAST 50 hours a week but usually more. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to spend 10 hours a day at work no matter what, I'd rather make the 500k + (extremely hefty bonus) salary rather than the 50-250k salary.

Yep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. Nothing else.

no - it isn't the money to most people at target schools (except for perhaps Wharton). At non-targets or semi-targets, yes it is the money, but not to kids at targets.

I can tell by your answer you didn't go to a target school where all the firms recruit for front office jobs.

The main appeal is the exit options and career path flexibility.

What i mean is this:

Imagine that you are a young bright HYPS or Williams grad at age 21/22 who majored in a social science or some other kind of soft major and come junior or senior year you don't really know what to do. You have a few interests but don't want to really box yourself in and you dont want to go grad school yet because you don't know where you want to take your career.

"Wall Street" at target schools swoop in and present a very structured and clear recruiting path that appeals to kids who already conquered such a path by getting into target schools.

Wall Street (it is changing slightly now but in the past) also presents itself as something for UG's to do for 2 or 3 years so they can get 'work experience' on their resume from a top firm, gain analytical skills, provides opportunities for you to show others you can work in high pressure situations, but most importantly without a long term commitment.

Industry and government knows that wall street has done some of the 'screening' for them already so after your 2-3 year stint at a firm, you leave all the aforementioned experience but also with the flexibility of knowing industry firms want you to staff some of their 'high profile' teams that more closely report to the c-suite.

when you look at job descriptions for teams that do interesting firm-wide work at a top company, a lot of them ask for "2-4 years IB or top strategy consulting experience" even if its everything from cpg to auto oems to appareal to whatever sector you want to name.

Real examples:

cute princeton history grad, dreams of working in fashion -> JPM IB analyst -> after two years applies and has offers for great paying jobs doing strategy and corp development at three well known fashion and luxury brand houses. She would've had a much harder time breaking into the industry without going to JPM first or if she did go out of UG would've been stuck on a different career track in the industry and not a more 'accelerated' track without the ib experience.

Top LAC grad, wants to work in sports -> IB analyst at top firm -> after 2 years joins Nike corp strategy and development, uses that as a platform to join an elite team at Nike that does their cutting edge demand creation work.

I can go on and on but that's the appeal of wall street (and consulting) to students at targets.

Wall street is a quasi 'finishing school' where you get paid to attend.

the actual work as an IB analyst and associate is fucking boring and tedious.

Trading is a different animal - kids that go into trading, do it for the money and interest in markets.

The best and brightest young minds, seeking careers in fashion and sports. Bless their hearts.

when China surpasses the US in 30-30 years, you'll know why

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. Nothing else.

no - it isn't the money to most people at target schools (except for perhaps Wharton). At non-targets or semi-targets, yes it is the money, but not to kids at targets.

I can tell by your answer you didn't go to a target school where all the firms recruit for front office jobs.

The main appeal is the exit options and career path flexibility.

What i mean is this:

Imagine that you are a young bright HYPS or Williams grad at age 21/22 who majored in a social science or some other kind of soft major and come junior or senior year you don't really know what to do. You have a few interests but don't want to really box yourself in and you dont want to go grad school yet because you don't know where you want to take your career.

"Wall Street" at target schools swoop in and present a very structured and clear recruiting path that appeals to kids who already conquered such a path by getting into target schools.

Wall Street (it is changing slightly now but in the past) also presents itself as something for UG's to do for 2 or 3 years so they can get 'work experience' on their resume from a top firm, gain analytical skills, provides opportunities for you to show others you can work in high pressure situations, but most importantly without a long term commitment.

Industry and government knows that wall street has done some of the 'screening' for them already so after your 2-3 year stint at a firm, you leave all the aforementioned experience but also with the flexibility of knowing industry firms want you to staff some of their 'high profile' teams that more closely report to the c-suite.

when you look at job descriptions for teams that do interesting firm-wide work at a top company, a lot of them ask for "2-4 years IB or top strategy consulting experience" even if its everything from cpg to auto oems to appareal to whatever sector you want to name.

Real examples:

cute princeton history grad, dreams of working in fashion -> JPM IB analyst -> after two years applies and has offers for great paying jobs doing strategy and corp development at three well known fashion and luxury brand houses. She would've had a much harder time breaking into the industry without going to JPM first or if she did go out of UG would've been stuck on a different career track in the industry and not a more 'accelerated' track without the ib experience.

Top LAC grad, wants to work in sports -> IB analyst at top firm -> after 2 years joins Nike corp strategy and development, uses that as a platform to join an elite team at Nike that does their cutting edge demand creation work.

I can go on and on but that's the appeal of wall street (and consulting) to students at targets.

Wall street is a quasi 'finishing school' where you get paid to attend.

the actual work as an IB analyst and associate is fucking boring and tedious.

Trading is a different animal - kids that go into trading, do it for the money and interest in markets.

The best and brightest young minds, seeking careers in fashion and sports. Bless their hearts.

when China surpasses the US in 30-30 years, you'll know why

If you don't think asians gun hard for ws/consulting roles, you are naive. "Young Money" wasn't written just about white kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are people in here acting like making money isn't a desirable goal? FYI if you said something like that, you MIGHT want to check your privilege. The only people who say money doesn't matter are people who grew up with it and can't imagine life any other way.

These days, most highly educated professionals are expected to work AT LEAST 50 hours a week but usually more. I don't know about you, but if I'm going to spend 10 hours a day at work no matter what, I'd rather make the 500k + (extremely hefty bonus) salary rather than the 50-250k salary.

Ummm ... it's because working on wallstreet is MUCH more than working 50 hours a week.

And if you're in the position to get hired by Goldman, you're in a position to find a career that is much more interesting and humane, that still pays well.

That said, I am sympathetic to your general point. But there's a huge difference between a good, solid career and working on Wall Street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. A friend moved with family to make $500k a year plus bonus. Plan to make that much for 5 years and then go elsewhere.

That's not that great of a plan, especially with family.

First off it takes around 500k to support a family in Manhattan and send two kids to private school. A two bedroom apartment (kids sharing a room) will be around 5-6k a month. Private school for two kids is 100k a year. Income taxes are extremely high. Buying into a decent coop requires at least 50 percent down and a year of majntenance and mortgage payments in the bank.

In terms of the bonus, bonuses vest over time and only a portion is in cash. So if your friend leaves at year five then he or she will be leaving a lot of money on the table and that will include some of what he or she earned in years 2-5. Most firms vest over a period of three years.

Also then what is this person going to do? It's hard to match a Wall Street salary except maybe out in Silicon Valley. After you're making close to a million a year it's hard to give that up and people are going to find it strange if you are applying for 200k jobs in flyover country. In fact they won't interview you as they will assume something is wrong.

Assuming one lives in Manhattan I guess what you wrote is true. However, Most ppl working in New York with the intention of "saving" choose to commute 30-45 min and save all the money by living in the burbs. You don't have to live in Manhattan to work on Wall street, what a strange assumption.

Of course not. But who wants to work a 10-12 hour day and then take the subway to metro north for a 1.5 hour door to door commute? That's three hours a day of commuting.

Men with kids and a SAH, who consider it a benefit to be out of the house all their waking hours. Sad but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/septoct-2014/why-are-harvard-grads-still-flocking-to-wall-street/

"Consequently, as Kevin Roose has written in his new book, Young Money, many wind up hating their jobs. Incessant Excel and PowerPoint drudgery, being on call to superiors at all hours of the night, putting in eighty to a hundred hours of work per week, traveling constantly, in the case of consulting, and feeling, overall, like a cog in a meaningless machine—all work against a balanced, productive life. The search for exit strategies becomes a preoccupation of many who take these positions."

"Far more typical are students like William, a junior at Harvard who told us that before arriving on campus, he “didn’t know there were consulting firms like McKinsey or Bain. I didn’t know that there were big investment banks like JPMorgan. I didn’t know that those really existed or what they did, and that wasn’t a thing for me, something I aspired to be.”"

"Of the 31 percent of graduating Harvard seniors going into finance and consulting, only 6.39 percent say that they expect to remain in those sectors (0.68 percent of those going into consulting jobs and 5.71 percent of those heading to financial services)."

This is my social environment right now (recent grads living/working in NYC). I read Young Money before I came up here, and I'd say it's more of a doom n' gloom portrait than it actually is. My banker friends complain about their jobs, work disgustingly long hours, and often quit. But for the ones who aren't well-connected rich kids whose parents funded their Ivy educations, the money and resume experience are extremely helpful. My friends in creative industries, tech, and publishing also complain about their jobs and often quit, but they work fewer hours and are paid less.

honestly given the training that banks provide, the first 2-3 years as an IB analyst really doesn't need a college education. The same kids they recruit at targets could be taken at 18 out of HS by banks and trained to do DCF's and figure out WACC and format fonts on pitchbooks.

it is that mundane of a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Money. Nothing else.

no - it isn't the money to most people at target schools (except for perhaps Wharton). At non-targets or semi-targets, yes it is the money, but not to kids at targets.

I can tell by your answer you didn't go to a target school where all the firms recruit for front office jobs.

The main appeal is the exit options and career path flexibility.

What i mean is this:

Imagine that you are a young bright HYPS or Williams grad at age 21/22 who majored in a social science or some other kind of soft major and come junior or senior year you don't really know what to do. You have a few interests but don't want to really box yourself in and you dont want to go grad school yet because you don't know where you want to take your career.

"Wall Street" at target schools swoop in and present a very structured and clear recruiting path that appeals to kids who already conquered such a path by getting into target schools.

Wall Street (it is changing slightly now but in the past) also presents itself as something for UG's to do for 2 or 3 years so they can get 'work experience' on their resume from a top firm, gain analytical skills, provides opportunities for you to show others you can work in high pressure situations, but most importantly without a long term commitment.

Industry and government knows that wall street has done some of the 'screening' for them already so after your 2-3 year stint at a firm, you leave all the aforementioned experience but also with the flexibility of knowing industry firms want you to staff some of their 'high profile' teams that more closely report to the c-suite.

when you look at job descriptions for teams that do interesting firm-wide work at a top company, a lot of them ask for "2-4 years IB or top strategy consulting experience" even if its everything from cpg to auto oems to appareal to whatever sector you want to name.

Real examples:

cute princeton history grad, dreams of working in fashion -> JPM IB analyst -> after two years applies and has offers for great paying jobs doing strategy and corp development at three well known fashion and luxury brand houses. She would've had a much harder time breaking into the industry without going to JPM first or if she did go out of UG would've been stuck on a different career track in the industry and not a more 'accelerated' track without the ib experience.

Top LAC grad, wants to work in sports -> IB analyst at top firm -> after 2 years joins Nike corp strategy and development, uses that as a platform to join an elite team at Nike that does their cutting edge demand creation work.

I can go on and on but that's the appeal of wall street (and consulting) to students at targets.

Wall street is a quasi 'finishing school' where you get paid to attend.

the actual work as an IB analyst and associate is fucking boring and tedious.

Trading is a different animal - kids that go into trading, do it for the money and interest in markets.

The best and brightest young minds, seeking careers in fashion and sports. Bless their hearts.

when China surpasses the US in 30-30 years, you'll know why

If you don't think asians gun hard for ws/consulting roles, you are naive. "Young Money" wasn't written just about white kids.

sorry, you're the one buying your head in the sand

http://www.tprinternational.com/china-vs-us-patent-trends-giants-stack/

"On January 14, 2016, China’s State Intellectual Property Office held a news conference in Beijing and released data that put China once again in the patent spotlight: The number of invention patent applications received by China in 2015 broke the 1 million barrier, reaching 1.102 million and showing an increase of 18.7% over the previous year. This contrasts with the United States, where figures released by the USPTO for 2015 show an increase of 1.8% in patents from 578,802 in 2014 to 589,410 in 2015. What is more, 359,000 invention patents were authorized in China in 2015, with 263,000 being granted to domestic applicants, up 100,000 over 2014."

Also

https://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2014/nov/12/china-surpass-united-states-r-and-d-spending-role-west

"It shows that China is not content with the role allocated to it by western policymakers. China already spends a lot more on R&D than Japan, was about to overtake the EU when the latest figures were compiled in 2012 and will, on current trends, surpass the United States by 2019."

[Anonymous]

The most successful guy I know is the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. Makes tens of millions a year.

Both of his kids went to Ivies and now work for bulge bracket investment banks in NYC. I'm assuming this guy knows a thing or two and steered his kids into this profession for very good reasons.