My massive dilemma about school pyramids - low income vs. more affluent? HELP ME!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know how that is a dilemma for you.
For me it was a no-brainer.

So you stayed with FCHS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wakefield Forest is a beautiful neighborhood, the elementary school is walking distance, the pool is great, and the community is really friendly. Those are the concrete, right-now things. Even if the high schools were the exact same caliber right now, it sounds like you're saying your family might be happier there because of everything else the neighborhood offers. There's something to be said for that.

Even if Woodson is a competitive rat-race and stays that way for the next 10 years, that doesn't mean your children would necessarily get sucked into it, any more than they would get pulled into gang life, or whatever the heck people are saying Falls Church HS has. If it were my family, I'd rather they deal with super smart type-A kids than worry they might get knifed in the bathroom because they wore the wrong color to school that day.

That's nonsense. How many kids have you heard of getting knifed in the bathroom at FCHS?

OP, I'd base your move/not move decision on whether you like your house and want to stay there, or would rather be in a different neighborhood with the community that you describe. I went to Frost and to FCHS. Granted my experience is many years in the past, and MS and HS are different, but I had a far better experience at FCHS than at Frost. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make friends who had different backgrounds than I did and came from different socioeconomic groups. Yeah, there were moments that were hard and awkward, but I'd argue that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I certainly think I'm a more well-rounded and productive member of society now because of it. And I did have a lot of opportunity both academically and in extracurricular activities at FCHS that I'm not sure I would have gotten at Woodson.

If you decide to move, I'm sure your kids will do fine in WF/Frost/Woodson also. Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are far better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country.

FWIW, I live in the FCHS pyramid now and look forward to my DD attending (she's in 3rd grade now). I do wish that they had done the renovations already, though!

PP, I'm curious--what was it about your experiences at Frost and FCHS that made one better than the other?

I felt a lot of pressure to fit in at Frost and found it to be very competitive, both academically and in electives (I was in band and participated in theater also). There was a lot of cheating at the time and I found that very frustrating. At FCHS, I felt challenged academically but without the negative pressure I felt at Frost. It was also very easy to be involved in lots of different activities. I was in chorus, theater, marching band, swim team, & field hockey. I wasn't forced to specialized, which was great, and I was able to step up into leadership positions. There were lots of different AP choices available and I got into a good college (W&M) and felt well-prepared for success.

Data to back this up, please.

Not the PP, but do you realize how silly you sound? The PP was sharing personal experience.

I guess if you want data, you could check the FCHS website to confirm how many AP courses are indeed offered there.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP,
I'm in a similar situation, zoned for LJ and FCHS. My kids are not school aged yet and I've been thinking about moving. Less than half a mile is zoned for Mclean. For me finances is a big factor- to sell and buy a home will be expensive. I really like my neighborhood. The other factor I'm weighting is if I should go private. I don't have anything against public schools- it's just that if its not a good fit I would not hesitate to send my kids to a school that does fit (this assumes that this school exists) so I wonder if I should use my $ for that instead. I have friends who live in very nice school districts and then choose to send their kids to privates when it was all said and done (smaller class sizes and more parent input). The local elementary is fine I think. We will see.

[Anonymous]

I had the same expectation that my kid would stand out in a lower rated school- didn't happen (at least in K and 1st so far), there are quite a few more advanced kids!
It is easier for me to stand out as a parent as not many parents are active in their classroom and PTA. I do hope this helps my kid receive more attention from his teachers but there is no way of knowing.
So far the school is good for us though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wakefield Forest is a beautiful neighborhood, the elementary school is walking distance, the pool is great, and the community is really friendly. Those are the concrete, right-now things. Even if the high schools were the exact same caliber right now, it sounds like you're saying your family might be happier there because of everything else the neighborhood offers. There's something to be said for that.

Even if Woodson is a competitive rat-race and stays that way for the next 10 years, that doesn't mean your children would necessarily get sucked into it, any more than they would get pulled into gang life, or whatever the heck people are saying Falls Church HS has. If it were my family, I'd rather they deal with super smart type-A kids than worry they might get knifed in the bathroom because they wore the wrong color to school that day.

That's nonsense. How many kids have you heard of getting knifed in the bathroom at FCHS?

OP, I'd base your move/not move decision on whether you like your house and want to stay there, or would rather be in a different neighborhood with the community that you describe. I went to Frost and to FCHS. Granted my experience is many years in the past, and MS and HS are different, but I had a far better experience at FCHS than at Frost. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make friends who had different backgrounds than I did and came from different socioeconomic groups. Yeah, there were moments that were hard and awkward, but I'd argue that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I certainly think I'm a more well-rounded and productive member of society now because of it. And I did have a lot of opportunity both academically and in extracurricular activities at FCHS that I'm not sure I would have gotten at Woodson.

If you decide to move, I'm sure your kids will do fine in WF/Frost/Woodson also. Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are far better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country.

FWIW, I live in the FCHS pyramid now and look forward to my DD attending (she's in 3rd grade now). I do wish that they had done the renovations already, though!

PP, I'm curious--what was it about your experiences at Frost and FCHS that made one better than the other?

I felt a lot of pressure to fit in at Frost and found it to be very competitive, both academically and in electives (I was in band and participated in theater also). There was a lot of cheating at the time and I found that very frustrating. At FCHS, I felt challenged academically but without the negative pressure I felt at Frost. It was also very easy to be involved in lots of different activities. I was in chorus, theater, marching band, swim team, & field hockey. I wasn't forced to specialized, which was great, and I was able to step up into leadership positions. There were lots of different AP choices available and I got into a good college (W&M) and felt well-prepared for success.

Data to back this up, please.

Not the PP, but do you realize how silly you sound? The PP was sharing personal experience.

I guess if you want data, you could check the FCHS website to confirm how many AP courses are indeed offered there.

The data comment was aimed at the silly arrogant statement in bold above, not the one right above it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wakefield Forest is a beautiful neighborhood, the elementary school is walking distance, the pool is great, and the community is really friendly. Those are the concrete, right-now things. Even if the high schools were the exact same caliber right now, it sounds like you're saying your family might be happier there because of everything else the neighborhood offers. There's something to be said for that.

Even if Woodson is a competitive rat-race and stays that way for the next 10 years, that doesn't mean your children would necessarily get sucked into it, any more than they would get pulled into gang life, or whatever the heck people are saying Falls Church HS has. If it were my family, I'd rather they deal with super smart type-A kids than worry they might get knifed in the bathroom because they wore the wrong color to school that day.

That's nonsense. How many kids have you heard of getting knifed in the bathroom at FCHS?

OP, I'd base your move/not move decision on whether you like your house and want to stay there, or would rather be in a different neighborhood with the community that you describe. I went to Frost and to FCHS. Granted my experience is many years in the past, and MS and HS are different, but I had a far better experience at FCHS than at Frost. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make friends who had different backgrounds than I did and came from different socioeconomic groups. Yeah, there were moments that were hard and awkward, but I'd argue that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I certainly think I'm a more well-rounded and productive member of society now because of it. And I did have a lot of opportunity both academically and in extracurricular activities at FCHS that I'm not sure I would have gotten at Woodson.

If you decide to move, I'm sure your kids will do fine in WF/Frost/Woodson also. Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are far better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country.

FWIW, I live in the FCHS pyramid now and look forward to my DD attending (she's in 3rd grade now). I do wish that they had done the renovations already, though!

PP, I'm curious--what was it about your experiences at Frost and FCHS that made one better than the other?

I felt a lot of pressure to fit in at Frost and found it to be very competitive, both academically and in electives (I was in band and participated in theater also). There was a lot of cheating at the time and I found that very frustrating. At FCHS, I felt challenged academically but without the negative pressure I felt at Frost. It was also very easy to be involved in lots of different activities. I was in chorus, theater, marching band, swim team, & field hockey. I wasn't forced to specialized, which was great, and I was able to step up into leadership positions. There were lots of different AP choices available and I got into a good college (W&M) and felt well-prepared for success.

Data to back this up, please.

Not the PP, but do you realize how silly you sound? The PP was sharing personal experience.

I guess if you want data, you could check the FCHS website to confirm how many AP courses are indeed offered there.

The data comment was aimed at the silly arrogant statement in bold above, not the one right above it.

OK. Not the PP but it is true that any FCPS high school will offer a range of courses - AP or IB - that are not available in most secondary schools in the country. On the other hand, if you look at the standardized test scores in the lowest performing schools in FCPS, they are pretty bad. But I wouldn't put Camelot/Jackson/Falls Church in that category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wakefield Forest is a beautiful neighborhood, the elementary school is walking distance, the pool is great, and the community is really friendly. Those are the concrete, right-now things. Even if the high schools were the exact same caliber right now, it sounds like you're saying your family might be happier there because of everything else the neighborhood offers. There's something to be said for that.

Even if Woodson is a competitive rat-race and stays that way for the next 10 years, that doesn't mean your children would necessarily get sucked into it, any more than they would get pulled into gang life, or whatever the heck people are saying Falls Church HS has. If it were my family, I'd rather they deal with super smart type-A kids than worry they might get knifed in the bathroom because they wore the wrong color to school that day.

That's nonsense. How many kids have you heard of getting knifed in the bathroom at FCHS?

OP, I'd base your move/not move decision on whether you like your house and want to stay there, or would rather be in a different neighborhood with the community that you describe. I went to Frost and to FCHS. Granted my experience is many years in the past, and MS and HS are different, but I had a far better experience at FCHS than at Frost. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make friends who had different backgrounds than I did and came from different socioeconomic groups. Yeah, there were moments that were hard and awkward, but I'd argue that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I certainly think I'm a more well-rounded and productive member of society now because of it. And I did have a lot of opportunity both academically and in extracurricular activities at FCHS that I'm not sure I would have gotten at Woodson.

If you decide to move, I'm sure your kids will do fine in WF/Frost/Woodson also. Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are far better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country.

FWIW, I live in the FCHS pyramid now and look forward to my DD attending (she's in 3rd grade now). I do wish that they had done the renovations already, though!

PP, I'm curious--what was it about your experiences at Frost and FCHS that made one better than the other?

I felt a lot of pressure to fit in at Frost and found it to be very competitive, both academically and in electives (I was in band and participated in theater also). There was a lot of cheating at the time and I found that very frustrating. At FCHS, I felt challenged academically but without the negative pressure I felt at Frost. It was also very easy to be involved in lots of different activities. I was in chorus, theater, marching band, swim team, & field hockey. I wasn't forced to specialized, which was great, and I was able to step up into leadership positions. There were lots of different AP choices available and I got into a good college (W&M) and felt well-prepared for success.

Data to back this up, please.

Not the PP, but do you realize how silly you sound? The PP was sharing personal experience.

I guess if you want data, you could check the FCHS website to confirm how many AP courses are indeed offered there.

The data comment was aimed at the silly arrogant statement in bold above, not the one right above it.

Well, there are obviously many different ways that you could define "better than", and the above was really speaking in generals not specifics, but one example with data supporting it is that the median college readiness index (CRI) as calculated by US News for 2015 was 20.17, and every FCPS high school had a score above that. There are 30 high schools in Ffx, although 5 are special centers, so really 25 regular HS. 16 were ranked by US News, and 9 did not make the cutoff to be ranked. However, the methodology used by US News to do the rankings first looks at schools in comparison to others in their state, rather than the country, so for the purposes of supporting the above statement, rankings are not sufficient. Of the 9 that were not ranked, the CRIs ranged from 27.7 to 61.2, with the average being 45.4, far above the national median.

Given that the comment was pointing out that most likely the PPs children would get a good education in any FCPS high school, its also worth noting that for the 9 non-ranked FCPS HSs, the average IB/AP pass rate was 78%, which would indicate that the kids who are enrolled in advanced coursework are being taught well and succeeding overall.

http://www.usnews.com/pubfiles/best-high-schools-technical-appendix.pdf

[Anonymous]

I totally sympathize with not wanting your kids in the pressure cooker school, but it sounds like all of the factors add up in favor of moving. You can do a lot to shield them from the pressures and make sure they have a balanced high school experience. I wouldn't worry too much about the "big fish/small fish" aspect. That's too much pressure! Pick the school and neighborhood that fits best now with your lives; don't do everything based on some (slight, if any) advantage on college applications. If you do that, you're just playing in to the whole pressure cooker!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wakefield Forest is a beautiful neighborhood, the elementary school is walking distance, the pool is great, and the community is really friendly. Those are the concrete, right-now things. Even if the high schools were the exact same caliber right now, it sounds like you're saying your family might be happier there because of everything else the neighborhood offers. There's something to be said for that.

Even if Woodson is a competitive rat-race and stays that way for the next 10 years, that doesn't mean your children would necessarily get sucked into it, any more than they would get pulled into gang life, or whatever the heck people are saying Falls Church HS has. If it were my family, I'd rather they deal with super smart type-A kids than worry they might get knifed in the bathroom because they wore the wrong color to school that day.

That's nonsense. How many kids have you heard of getting knifed in the bathroom at FCHS?

OP, I'd base your move/not move decision on whether you like your house and want to stay there, or would rather be in a different neighborhood with the community that you describe. I went to Frost and to FCHS. Granted my experience is many years in the past, and MS and HS are different, but I had a far better experience at FCHS than at Frost. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make friends who had different backgrounds than I did and came from different socioeconomic groups. Yeah, there were moments that were hard and awkward, but I'd argue that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I certainly think I'm a more well-rounded and productive member of society now because of it. And I did have a lot of opportunity both academically and in extracurricular activities at FCHS that I'm not sure I would have gotten at Woodson.

If you decide to move, I'm sure your kids will do fine in WF/Frost/Woodson also. Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are far better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country.

FWIW, I live in the FCHS pyramid now and look forward to my DD attending (she's in 3rd grade now). I do wish that they had done the renovations already, though!

PP, I'm curious--what was it about your experiences at Frost and FCHS that made one better than the other?

I felt a lot of pressure to fit in at Frost and found it to be very competitive, both academically and in electives (I was in band and participated in theater also). There was a lot of cheating at the time and I found that very frustrating. At FCHS, I felt challenged academically but without the negative pressure I felt at Frost. It was also very easy to be involved in lots of different activities. I was in chorus, theater, marching band, swim team, & field hockey. I wasn't forced to specialized, which was great, and I was able to step up into leadership positions. There were lots of different AP choices available and I got into a good college (W&M) and felt well-prepared for success.

Data to back this up, please.

Not the PP, but do you realize how silly you sound? The PP was sharing personal experience.

I guess if you want data, you could check the FCHS website to confirm how many AP courses are indeed offered there.

The data comment was aimed at the silly arrogant statement in bold above, not the one right above it.

Well, there are obviously many different ways that you could define "better than", and the above was really speaking in generals not specifics, but one example with data supporting it is that the median college readiness index (CRI) as calculated by US News for 2015 was 20.17, and every FCPS high school had a score above that. There are 30 high schools in Ffx, although 5 are special centers, so really 25 regular HS. 16 were ranked by US News, and 9 did not make the cutoff to be ranked. However, the methodology used by US News to do the rankings first looks at schools in comparison to others in their state, rather than the country, so for the purposes of supporting the above statement, rankings are not sufficient. Of the 9 that were not ranked, the CRIs ranged from 27.7 to 61.2, with the average being 45.4, far above the national median.

Given that the comment was pointing out that most likely the PPs children would get a good education in any FCPS high school, its also worth noting that for the 9 non-ranked FCPS HSs, the average IB/AP pass rate was 78%, which would indicate that the kids who are enrolled in advanced coursework are being taught well and succeeding overall.

http://www.usnews.com/pubfiles/best-high-schools-technical-appendix.pdf

Thank you, that's very interesting. I would still take exception with the statement that the worst schools in Fairfax County (e.g. CRI= 27.7) are "far better" than the majority of schools in the rest of the country. The national median = 20.17, which means that "half the sample for which AP or IB data were available had CRI values higher than this value", according to the report. 'Slightly better than the national median' would be a more accurate statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wakefield Forest is a beautiful neighborhood, the elementary school is walking distance, the pool is great, and the community is really friendly. Those are the concrete, right-now things. Even if the high schools were the exact same caliber right now, it sounds like you're saying your family might be happier there because of everything else the neighborhood offers. There's something to be said for that.

Even if Woodson is a competitive rat-race and stays that way for the next 10 years, that doesn't mean your children would necessarily get sucked into it, any more than they would get pulled into gang life, or whatever the heck people are saying Falls Church HS has. If it were my family, I'd rather they deal with super smart type-A kids than worry they might get knifed in the bathroom because they wore the wrong color to school that day.

That's nonsense. How many kids have you heard of getting knifed in the bathroom at FCHS?

OP, I'd base your move/not move decision on whether you like your house and want to stay there, or would rather be in a different neighborhood with the community that you describe. I went to Frost and to FCHS. Granted my experience is many years in the past, and MS and HS are different, but I had a far better experience at FCHS than at Frost. I'm glad that I had the opportunity to make friends who had different backgrounds than I did and came from different socioeconomic groups. Yeah, there were moments that were hard and awkward, but I'd argue that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I certainly think I'm a more well-rounded and productive member of society now because of it. And I did have a lot of opportunity both academically and in extracurricular activities at FCHS that I'm not sure I would have gotten at Woodson.

If you decide to move, I'm sure your kids will do fine in WF/Frost/Woodson also. Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are far better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country.

FWIW, I live in the FCHS pyramid now and look forward to my DD attending (she's in 3rd grade now). I do wish that they had done the renovations already, though!

PP, I'm curious--what was it about your experiences at Frost and FCHS that made one better than the other?

I felt a lot of pressure to fit in at Frost and found it to be very competitive, both academically and in electives (I was in band and participated in theater also). There was a lot of cheating at the time and I found that very frustrating. At FCHS, I felt challenged academically but without the negative pressure I felt at Frost. It was also very easy to be involved in lots of different activities. I was in chorus, theater, marching band, swim team, & field hockey. I wasn't forced to specialized, which was great, and I was able to step up into leadership positions. There were lots of different AP choices available and I got into a good college (W&M) and felt well-prepared for success.

Data to back this up, please.

Not the PP, but do you realize how silly you sound? The PP was sharing personal experience.

I guess if you want data, you could check the FCHS website to confirm how many AP courses are indeed offered there.

The data comment was aimed at the silly arrogant statement in bold above, not the one right above it.

Well, there are obviously many different ways that you could define "better than", and the above was really speaking in generals not specifics, but one example with data supporting it is that the median college readiness index (CRI) as calculated by US News for 2015 was 20.17, and every FCPS high school had a score above that. There are 30 high schools in Ffx, although 5 are special centers, so really 25 regular HS. 16 were ranked by US News, and 9 did not make the cutoff to be ranked. However, the methodology used by US News to do the rankings first looks at schools in comparison to others in their state, rather than the country, so for the purposes of supporting the above statement, rankings are not sufficient. Of the 9 that were not ranked, the CRIs ranged from 27.7 to 61.2, with the average being 45.4, far above the national median.

Given that the comment was pointing out that most likely the PPs children would get a good education in any FCPS high school, its also worth noting that for the 9 non-ranked FCPS HSs, the average IB/AP pass rate was 78%, which would indicate that the kids who are enrolled in advanced coursework are being taught well and succeeding overall.

http://www.usnews.com/pubfiles/best-high-schools-technical-appendix.pdf

Thank you, that's very interesting. I would still take exception with the statement that the worst schools in Fairfax County (e.g. CRI= 27.7) are "far better" than the majority of schools in the rest of the country. The national median = 20.17, which means that "half the sample for which AP or IB data were available had CRI values higher than this value", according to the report. 'Slightly better than the national median' would be a more accurate statement.

Ok, I'll withdraw the "far" from the statement and restate: "Sometimes we forget that even the worst-performing schools in FFX are better than the majority of schools in the rest of the country."

Majority = greater than 50%
Above the median = above the 5oth percentile

No need to change anything else. Happy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The FCHS staff member is either an idiot and should not be in FCPS or that was an embellishment.

The current queue/schedule for HS renovations is:

Langley (finish renovations in 2017)
West Springfield (bulk of renovations 2017-18)
Herndon (bulk of renovations 2018-20)
Oakton (bulk of renovations 2019-21)
Falls Church (renovations during 2022-24)
Centreville (renovations starting in 2026)

If your child is 5 then the child might be at the school for renovations. Renovations are not the best to live through. Nice when done but... OP's father seems to be living alone and needs help. Plus his area has a big HOA, community pool, more things for young families. Two issues-quality of life and schools. Move in with dad and only buy in a secure [although nothing is truly safe] location. Boundary processes are time consuming and irritating. Life sucking events.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP who said that it seems you've already made up your mind to move. Stop hiding behind your father's illness and just admit that you want to move, and do it. Do it before your kids start school so that they don't have to make all new friends at a new school.

[Anonymous]

I think the "pressure cooker" environment is a direct result of parenting. If you are not one of those parents, then your kids should be pretty well shielded from that. They're not likely to go to Woodson and suddenly change from a happy, laid back kid to a stressed out, rat race mentality. Kids who are like that have been getting pressure from their parents since they were in preschool.

[Anonymous]

I think the "pressure cooker" environment is a direct result of parenting. If you are not one of those parents, then your kids should be pretty well shielded from that. They're not likely to go to Woodson and suddenly change from a happy, laid back kid to a stressed out, rat race mentality. Kids who are like that have been getting pressure from their parents since they were in preschool.

Are you familiar with the Woodson community? I disagree with you....teachers and peers can create pressure, too. It's not just the parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think the "pressure cooker" environment is a direct result of parenting. If you are not one of those parents, then your kids should be pretty well shielded from that. They're not likely to go to Woodson and suddenly change from a happy, laid back kid to a stressed out, rat race mentality. Kids who are like that have been getting pressure from their parents since they were in preschool.

Are you familiar with the Woodson community? I disagree with you....teachers and peers can create pressure, too. It's not just the parents.

+1000