college for average students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on why she got those grades. At the end of my freshman year, my GPA was less than half of your DD's. I had ended up at my safety school and it turned out that I wasn't good at living away from home and was really terrible in big lecture classes where know one knew my name. I ended up taking classes part time from home and it was like night and day. But eventually I had to learn to both live away from home and deal with a big lecture and those semesters were like your daughter's. If she has always gotten those grades, it could be that she should just grind out the degree and move on to other things rather than delaying and hoping for a big change from out of the blue.

"That's what we're struggling with now. Our DD has a 2.42 GPA after her freshman year. She's at a 2nd tier state school. After a year she has 18 credits because of what she dropped. I'm really having a hard time agreeing that that she should return in the fall. It's not that I don't think she should ever go to college, but right now, it doesn't seem to be the right place for her. Before anyone asks, there are no SN, no learning disabilities. She's just a C student."

Yes -- that's key. Also, if 18 credits is only a bit more than 1/2 of a FT load, then the 2.4 is more of a red flag. Unless there's a strong upward trajectory (and since PP didn't mention it, so I'm guessing there isn't), then it's worth reassessing. Doesn't necessarily mean this is the wrong college or wrong time for college (though it might be). But at very least it's time to look at course selection and at what kinds of support/assistance are available for students who are struggling. While I agree that graduation from college may matter more than GPA (assuming that getting into grad school isn't an issue), I think that figuring out what's going wrong and helping your DC figure out how to plan a course of study that plays to (and enhances) her strengths is likely to pay off in both respects, as well as others.

[Anonymous]

We live in a bubble here. This area (and this board) is full of well educated parents who have children in well-regarded schools and do everything to ensure those children will have excellent educational opportunities. That is much more than most kids have. What is "normal" for this area is skewed and unfortunately it skews a kid's perception of their ability. Like PP said, a 26 ACT is better than 83% but around here it is considered on the low side.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in a bubble here. This area (and this board) is full of well educated parents who have children in well-regarded schools and do everything to ensure those children will have excellent educational opportunities. That is much more than most kids have. What is "normal" for this area is skewed and unfortunately it skews a kid's perception of their ability. Like PP said, a 26 ACT is better than 83% but around here it is considered on the low side.

it doesn't matter what percentile it is. your DC will "compete" with kids from his own school, own district, own region. Not someone from Nebraska. And around here (in DMV area), it's a so-so score.

[Anonymous]

Consider 2 years at a community college and transfer. I know plenty of children that went this route. If they get excellent grades those 2 years, there are excellent options for transfer students. One kid did two years at Montgomery College, transferred to U of MD main campus the last 2 years and then went to Hopkins for a Masters degree. Yes, great high school grades and a top 4 year school is ideal, but it's not the end of your child takes another path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in a bubble here. This area (and this board) is full of well educated parents who have children in well-regarded schools and do everything to ensure those children will have excellent educational opportunities. That is much more than most kids have. What is "normal" for this area is skewed and unfortunately it skews a kid's perception of their ability. Like PP said, a 26 ACT is better than 83% but around here it is considered on the low side.

it doesn't matter what percentile it is. your DC will "compete" with kids from his own school, own district, own region. Not someone from Nebraska. And around here (in DMV area), it's a so-so score.

Lots of colleges don't have highly competitive admissions and don't draw regionally (much less nationally). You're still talking from within the bubble. Remember that 83rd percentile is of kids who took the ACT (not kids who are in HS or of a particular age). The US has enough college slots to accommodate kids with "so-so" scores and this score is significantly better than that.

[Anonymous]

it doesn't matter what percentile it is. your DC will "compete" with kids from his own school, own district, own region. Not someone from Nebraska. And around here (in DMV area), it's a so-so score.

Only at in-state schools and maybe a few others that get a ton of applicants from this area. It's a big country with a lot of great schools. My DC applied to some OOS publics that have relatively few applicants from his school. He had a "terrible" weighted GPA of 3.4 and an "OK" 30 ACT and was admitted to places like Indiana and Minnesota. The average ACT score at DC's high school which is "around here" is actually a 26 and 90% of students go to 4 year schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, you need to understand that most posters on here are full of shit and your nephew is far more typical than the imaginary students described here.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Often on DCUM I see comments suggesting that average high school students, by which I mean those with 2.8-3.4 GPA's and average or below average SAT/ACT scores, shouldn't be attending a four year college. Sometimes it's argued these kids would be better off learning a trade, or that they should go to a 2-year community college with the possibility of later transfer to a 4 year institution if they do well. I want to offer another perspective.

We have a nephew who struggled in high school. He had a learning disability, and as a result just didn't develop the academic skills needed to be successful in high school. I think his GPA when applying to colleges was something like 3.0 unweighted, and his ACT was around 26. Despite these challenges he managed to get into a small liberal arts college in the midwest. This Spring he graduated college with a 3.6 GPA and a job in marketing with a large NYC firm. The college environment, especially the small classes and freedom to develop his own interests, gave him so many opportunities to grow socially and academically. He is almost unrecognizable as the shy, insecure 18 year old he was at his high school.

My point is that kids don't all mature at the same rate. This kid was a late bloomer, and there are so many like him. College is for this type of student as well as for the high school high achievers. I'm thankful his parents encouraged him instead of writing him off.

My son was a below average high school student. He enlisted in the military and grew up some. Now 27, he just graduated from a small Presbyterian college in the south, Maryville College, with high honors and is going on to graduate school in agriculture. They have a wonderful environment where students are challenged and mentored by professors. We probably couldn't have afforded to send him to such a school but they have a "yellow ribbon program" which picks up whatever the GI Bill doesn't cover. Be aware that less than 20 percent of military enlistees are involved in combat operations. Our son worked on an airfield and never picked up a gun after training. This is the norm and enlistees are allowed to choose their field of specialty. On the other hand, there is a great deal of alcohol and drug abuse in the military. Our son, happily, was more interested in fitness and getting promoted. He is still considering return to the service as a commissioned officer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Often on DCUM I see comments suggesting that average high school students, by which I mean those with 2.8-3.4 GPA's and average or below average SAT/ACT scores, shouldn't be attending a four year college. Sometimes it's argued these kids would be better off learning a trade, or that they should go to a 2-year community college with the possibility of later transfer to a 4 year institution if they do well. I want to offer another perspective.

We have a nephew who struggled in high school. He had a learning disability, and as a result just didn't develop the academic skills needed to be successful in high school. I think his GPA when applying to colleges was something like 3.0 unweighted, and his ACT was around 26. Despite these challenges he managed to get into a small liberal arts college in the midwest. This Spring he graduated college with a 3.6 GPA and a job in marketing with a large NYC firm. The college environment, especially the small classes and freedom to develop his own interests, gave him so many opportunities to grow socially and academically. He is almost unrecognizable as the shy, insecure 18 year old he was at his high school.

My point is that kids don't all mature at the same rate. This kid was a late bloomer, and there are so many like him. College is for this type of student as well as for the high school high achievers. I'm thankful his parents encouraged him instead of writing him off.

My son was a below average high school student. He enlisted in the military and grew up some. Now 27, he just graduated from a small Presbyterian college in the south, Maryville College, with high honors and is going on to graduate school in agriculture. They have a wonderful environment where students are challenged and mentored by professors. We probably couldn't have afforded to send him to such a school but they have a "yellow ribbon program" which picks up whatever the GI Bill doesn't cover. Be aware that less than 20 percent of military enlistees are involved in combat operations. Our son worked on an airfield and never picked up a gun after training. This is the norm and enlistees are allowed to choose their field of specialty. On the other hand, there is a great deal of alcohol and drug abuse in the military. Our son, happily, was more interested in fitness and getting promoted. He is still considering return to the service as a commissioned officer.

Awesome example! Best wishes to your son. Sounds like he is making great choices for himself!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a struggling student, not everyone views a small private college as the best choice. At a large state school there can be more chances to retake a class with a different professor, arrange your class schedule for what works best (maybe no morning classes) easy to adjust your schedule by dropping or adding classes, transferring classes, switching majors.

True. It really depends on the kid, their learning style, social preferences, etc. There are big schools that work for many kids too. My friend's daughter thrived at Rutgers after being a pretty lackluster student in high school. She ended up going to graduate school in psychology.

She and thousands like her. Who hasn't known lackluster h.s. students who hit their stride in college? Some kids have it all together in high school (at least from outside appearances) and bravo to them. But there's a reason for the terms "late bloomer" and "peaked in high school." Life is long and kids grow and mature at their own pace. To suggest kids who didn't do well in H.S. shouldn't go to college is absurd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. Thanks for the interesting array of responses. I was expecting to get flamed and was heartened by many who seem to agree that being a B average kid in high school isn't the end of the world. I realize that not every kid can afford full freight for college, BTW. There are state colleges for low stats kids too. Think St. Mary's in MD, Frostburg or Christopher Newport. There are also private schools known to give a lot aid even to B students.

Frostburg is not in the same league as St. Mary's.

We took my son up for a basketball camp at Frostburg. I couldn't believe how bad the dorms were. Jiminy Crickets!

[Anonymous]

I too stress out when I read DCUMs or website stories like on college data. Those kids appear to have it all together - outgoing personality - drive - clear path etc...

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_magarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=30075

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_magarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=30077

DD is shy and although entering 9th grade in September, will probably have a low 3.X GPA based on her 6-8th grade grades at her 6-12 grade school. I worry a lot for her as she has executive functioning, organizational and time management challenges.

Two things she has going for her is that DH and I both have Masters degrees so we know the process and she will not be restricted by cost or financial aid as she won't qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP. Thanks for the interesting array of responses. I was expecting to get flamed and was heartened by many who seem to agree that being a B average kid in high school isn't the end of the world. I realize that not every kid can afford full freight for college, BTW. There are state colleges for low stats kids too. Think St. Mary's in MD, Frostburg or Christopher Newport. There are also private schools known to give a lot aid even to B students.

Frostburg is not in the same league as St. Mary's.

We took my son up for a basketball camp at Frostburg. I couldn't believe how bad the dorms were. Jiminy Crickets!

The six-year graduation rate is 49%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I too stress out when I read DCUMs or website stories like on college data. Those kids appear to have it all together - outgoing personality - drive - clear path etc...

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_magarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=30075

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_magarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=30077

DD is shy and although entering 9th grade in September, will probably have a low 3.X GPA based on her 6-8th grade grades at her 6-12 grade school. I worry a lot for her as she has executive functioning, organizational and time management challenges.

Two things she has going for her is that DH and I both have Masters degrees so we know the process and she will not be restricted by cost or financial aid as she won't qualify.

My son has similar issues. We focused his college search on Colleges that Change Lives schools and he will be a freshman at his first-choice college this fall, with a big merit scholarship.

IMO, kids with EF issues are best served by schools with small classes, accessible professors, and accessible tutoring and other one-on-one services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I too stress out when I read DCUMs or website stories like on college data. Those kids appear to have it all together - outgoing personality - drive - clear path etc...

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_magarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=30075

http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_magarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=30077

DD is shy and although entering 9th grade in September, will probably have a low 3.X GPA based on her 6-8th grade grades at her 6-12 grade school. I worry a lot for her as she has executive functioning, organizational and time management challenges.

Two things she has going for her is that DH and I both have Masters degrees so we know the process and she will not be restricted by cost or financial aid as she won't qualify.

My son has similar issues. We focused his college search on Colleges that Change Lives schools and he will be a freshman at his first-choice college this fall, with a big merit scholarship.

IMO, kids with EF issues are best served by schools with small classes, accessible professors, and accessible tutoring and other one-on-one services.

Thank you so much and best of luck to your son! DO you mind sharing his stats?