Baltimore parents- can we talk about pre-first?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talk to people whose kids are 16, not 6, about Pre-First. Ten years out, I've literally never heard a single person regret doing pre-First. I have heard a few regret not doing it.

It stinks now - expensive and, for some, a blow to the ego. But it is an investment that will pay you back.

My son is 16 with a summer birthday. He was recommended for Pre-First, we opted to send him to first. The school felt we were making a mistake, but given our personal experiences and our knowledge of our child, we felt Pre-First would have been a mistake. He is doing very well. We have no regrets about not having him do Pre-First, nor does he. He remains at the school that recommended him for Pre-First, he is at the top of his class.

Ask the school to talk to families who took advantage of Pre-First and if possible families who didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do pre-first register for activities that are grade based? For example, my kids camp asks what grade he will be in next fall in order to place him in the correct group. Choices are 1st or 2nd....

You respond as if your child is in K. The year after Pre-First they will be in first grade. If your child is going into Pre-First, tell the camp that next year your child will be in K.

The programs are designed not to just be repeat years so they're beneficial socially and academically. But as far as most of the state is concerned there is no such as Pre-First. Children in the grade prior to First Grade are in Kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do pre-first register for activities that are grade based? For example, my kids camp asks what grade he will be in next fall in order to place him in the correct group. Choices are 1st or 2nd....

If you lived in Baltimore, you would just say pre-first. It really isn't complicated.

Do the public schools also have pre-first?

Yes - I went to public school in New Hampshire and went to pre-first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to people whose kids are 16, not 6, about Pre-First. Ten years out, I've literally never heard a single person regret doing pre-First. I have heard a few regret not doing it.

It stinks now - expensive and, for some, a blow to the ego. But it is an investment that will pay you back.

My son is 16 with a summer birthday. He was recommended for Pre-First, we opted to send him to first. The school felt we were making a mistake, but given our personal experiences and our knowledge of our child, we felt Pre-First would have been a mistake. He is doing very well. We have no regrets about not having him do Pre-First, nor does he. He remains at the school that recommended him for Pre-First, he is at the top of his class.

Ask the school to talk to families who took advantage of Pre-First and if possible families who didn't.

I don't think it's optional in most cases. In other words, if the school tells you your kid should go to pre-first, either you do it or you leave. I have heard of a few families where the kid was on the bubble and they let the parents choose, but not many. The cynic in me thinks that pre-first exists because it's a way for the schools to (a) get an extra year of tuition from that group; and (b) improve the performance of its students in college admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm newish to balto and the first time I heard this term I laughed out loud. It's just a fancy word for "held back," thrown around by schools to placate parents and ensure the next great generation of lacrosse superstars. It probably helps kids academically because, HELLO, they are a year older and received an additional year of school. I don't begrudge the parents their "pre-first year" because they pay a lot of money for it, but to imply that it's anything other than a fancy way to pad the nest for a kid who probably isn't all that stellar academically, is pretty ridiculous.

Welcome to Baltimore.

Sure, the kids at Gilman and Bryn Mawr are doing PF because they're kinda slow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm newish to balto and the first time I heard this term I laughed out loud. It's just a fancy word for "held back," thrown around by schools to placate parents and ensure the next great generation of lacrosse superstars. It probably helps kids academically because, HELLO, they are a year older and received an additional year of school. I don't begrudge the parents their "pre-first year" because they pay a lot of money for it, but to imply that it's anything other than a fancy way to pad the nest for a kid who probably isn't all that stellar academically, is pretty ridiculous.

Welcome to Baltimore.

Sure, the kids at Gilman and Bryn Mawr are doing PF because they're kinda slow.

Part of it, I suspect, is that they want first graders to follow multi-step directions independently. They judge, perhaps with merit, that the younger set of students are often not ready.

If that is the case, Pre-First is, fact, a good idea.

Perhaps it is also an indication that these schools are invested in saying their students perform "two grades ahead," and this requires expectations so high that they in fact need the student's ages to weight older. In other words, the expectations are good at stretching students, but they're also over-ambitious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to people whose kids are 16, not 6, about Pre-First. Ten years out, I've literally never heard a single person regret doing pre-First. I have heard a few regret not doing it.

It stinks now - expensive and, for some, a blow to the ego. But it is an investment that will pay you back.

My son is 16 with a summer birthday. He was recommended for Pre-First, we opted to send him to first. The school felt we were making a mistake, but given our personal experiences and our knowledge of our child, we felt Pre-First would have been a mistake. He is doing very well. We have no regrets about not having him do Pre-First, nor does he. He remains at the school that recommended him for Pre-First, he is at the top of his class.

Ask the school to talk to families who took advantage of Pre-First and if possible families who didn't.

I don't think it's optional in most cases. In other words, if the school tells you your kid should go to pre-first, either you do it or you leave. I have heard of a few families where the kid was on the bubble and they let the parents choose, but not many. The cynic in me thinks that pre-first exists because it's a way for the schools to (a) get an extra year of tuition from that group; and (b) improve the performance of its students in college admissions.

Maybe it's because I work in a school, but this always bothers me a little. Do you really think the kindergarten and 1st Grade teachers, the Lower School principal, and the Admissions Director and Business Office are all in a conspiracy to milk an extra year's tuition out of pre-first families? You know if they did away with Pre-First and just moved all those kids into an additional First Grade section, there would still be the same number of kids in the school, right? Or are they playing the long con, and eagerly planning the day they'll all cash in together 12 years down the line when that kid is still in school for that one extra year?

I choose to believe that the teachers at my kids' school have their students' best interests at heart, and are making the recommendations that they believe will help a kid most, even if that recommendation results in a difficult conversation with a family who doesn't believe their child could benefit from another year.

With my son walking out the door for college in 3 weeks, it suddenly feels like every moment together is precious. Aside from all the good pre-first did for him academically and socially, I'm very appreciative of the extra year he spent under my roof. He has grown into a kind, confident young man - so much more ready to be on his own than he was this time a year ago. Not only is he prepared to be successful in college, it was a special family year in a lot of ways. Instead of riding herd on a growing teen, it felt like we got to enjoy the company of a young adult. So, yes, I'm overly nostalgic right now, but I still believe pre-first has benefits that might not manifest themselves until a lot farther down the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to people whose kids are 16, not 6, about Pre-First. Ten years out, I've literally never heard a single person regret doing pre-First. I have heard a few regret not doing it.

It stinks now - expensive and, for some, a blow to the ego. But it is an investment that will pay you back.

My son is 16 with a summer birthday. He was recommended for Pre-First, we opted to send him to first. The school felt we were making a mistake, but given our personal experiences and our knowledge of our child, we felt Pre-First would have been a mistake. He is doing very well. We have no regrets about not having him do Pre-First, nor does he. He remains at the school that recommended him for Pre-First, he is at the top of his class.

Ask the school to talk to families who took advantage of Pre-First and if possible families who didn't.

I don't think it's optional in most cases. In other words, if the school tells you your kid should go to pre-first, either you do it or you leave. I have heard of a few families where the kid was on the bubble and they let the parents choose, but not many. The cynic in me thinks that pre-first exists because it's a way for the schools to (a) get an extra year of tuition from that group; and (b) improve the performance of its students in college admissions.

Maybe it's because I work in a school, but this always bothers me a little. Do you really think the kindergarten and 1st Grade teachers, the Lower School principal, and the Admissions Director and Business Office are all in a conspiracy to milk an extra year's tuition out of pre-first families? You know if they did away with Pre-First and just moved all those kids into an additional First Grade section, there would still be the same number of kids in the school, right? Or are they playing the long con, and eagerly planning the day they'll all cash in together 12 years down the line when that kid is still in school for that one extra year?

I choose to believe that the teachers at my kids' school have their students' best interests at heart, and are making the recommendations that they believe will help a kid most, even if that recommendation results in a difficult conversation with a family who doesn't believe their child could benefit from another year.

With my son walking out the door for college in 3 weeks, it suddenly feels like every moment together is precious. Aside from all the good pre-first did for him academically and socially, I'm very appreciative of the extra year he spent under my roof. He has grown into a kind, confident young man - so much more ready to be on his own than he was this time a year ago. Not only is he prepared to be successful in college, it was a special family year in a lot of ways. Instead of riding herd on a growing teen, it felt like we got to enjoy the company of a young adult. So, yes, I'm overly nostalgic right now, but I still believe pre-first has benefits that might not manifest themselves until a lot farther down the line.

I appreciate everything that you're saying, and if my rising kindergartener is asked to attend pre-first, we'll send him and remind ourselves of how lucky we are to have an extra year with him. I also don't think anybody would dispute that pre-first has benefits. Who wouldn't benefit from an extra year to mature and learn? But your argument that its not a money-maker for the school because those kids would otherwise just go into first grade ignores the fact that class sizes at these schools are very carefully capped. By diverting 15-20 kids a year into pre-first, those first grade spots are now available to more new students. There are lots of top notch private and public schools around the country that don't have pre-first classes and still manage to provide an excellent education, so I don't buy that it is a crucial component.

[Anonymous]

I do not doubt that pre-first benefits the children who attend in myriad ways. But I think the most important benefit is that, for the remainder of their academic and athletic careers, they will be evaluated head to head against other children who haven't had the extra year of school. It's a way for rich people to give their kids (who already have a million advantages) an extra leg up, full stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not doubt that pre-first benefits the children who attend in myriad ways. But I think the most important benefit is that, for the remainder of their academic and athletic careers, they will be evaluated head to head against other children who haven't had the extra year of school. It's a way for rich people to give their kids (who already have a million advantages) an extra leg up, full stop.

The is true of private school generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Talk to people whose kids are 16, not 6, about Pre-First. Ten years out, I've literally never heard a single person regret doing pre-First. I have heard a few regret not doing it.

It stinks now - expensive and, for some, a blow to the ego. But it is an investment that will pay you back.

My son is 16 with a summer birthday. He was recommended for Pre-First, we opted to send him to first. The school felt we were making a mistake, but given our personal experiences and our knowledge of our child, we felt Pre-First would have been a mistake. He is doing very well. We have no regrets about not having him do Pre-First, nor does he. He remains at the school that recommended him for Pre-First, he is at the top of his class.

Ask the school to talk to families who took advantage of Pre-First and if possible families who didn't.

I don't think it's optional in most cases. In other words, if the school tells you your kid should go to pre-first, either you do it or you leave. I have heard of a few families where the kid was on the bubble and they let the parents choose, but not many. The cynic in me thinks that pre-first exists because it's a way for the schools to (a) get an extra year of tuition from that group; and (b) improve the performance of its students in college admissions.

Maybe it's because I work in a school, but this always bothers me a little. Do you really think the kindergarten and 1st Grade teachers, the Lower School principal, and the Admissions Director and Business Office are all in a conspiracy to milk an extra year's tuition out of pre-first families? You know if they did away with Pre-First and just moved all those kids into an additional First Grade section, there would still be the same number of kids in the school, right? Or are they playing the long con, and eagerly planning the day they'll all cash in together 12 years down the line when that kid is still in school for that one extra year?

I choose to believe that the teachers at my kids' school have their students' best interests at heart, and are making the recommendations that they believe will help a kid most, even if that recommendation results in a difficult conversation with a family who doesn't believe their child could benefit from another year.

With my son walking out the door for college in 3 weeks, it suddenly feels like every moment together is precious. Aside from all the good pre-first did for him academically and socially, I'm very appreciative of the extra year he spent under my roof. He has grown into a kind, confident young man - so much more ready to be on his own than he was this time a year ago. Not only is he prepared to be successful in college, it was a special family year in a lot of ways. Instead of riding herd on a growing teen, it felt like we got to enjoy the company of a young adult. So, yes, I'm overly nostalgic right now, but I still believe pre-first has benefits that might not manifest themselves until a lot farther down the line.

I appreciate everything that you're saying, and if my rising kindergartener is asked to attend pre-first, we'll send him and remind ourselves of how lucky we are to have an extra year with him. I also don't think anybody would dispute that pre-first has benefits. Who wouldn't benefit from an extra year to mature and learn? But your argument that its not a money-maker for the school because those kids would otherwise just go into first grade ignores the fact that class sizes at these schools are very carefully capped. By diverting 15-20 kids a year into pre-first, those first grade spots are now available to more new students. There are lots of top notch private and public schools around the country that don't have pre-first classes and still manage to provide an excellent education, so I don't buy that it is a crucial component.

It's near universal in Baltimore privates, but no one is forcing you to attend,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do not doubt that pre-first benefits the children who attend in myriad ways. But I think the most important benefit is that, for the remainder of their academic and athletic careers, they will be evaluated head to head against other children who haven't had the extra year of school. It's a way for rich people to give their kids (who already have a million advantages) an extra leg up, full stop.

I'm the immediate PP, and I would agree with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do pre-first register for activities that are grade based? For example, my kids camp asks what grade he will be in next fall in order to place him in the correct group. Choices are 1st or 2nd....

If you lived in Baltimore, you would just say pre-first. It really isn't complicated.

Do the public schools also have pre-first?

Yes - I went to public school in New Hampshire and went to pre-first.

The public schools in Baltimore and Baltimore County do not have pre-first. The Park School of Baltimore is the one major private school that also does not have pre-first and keeps their students within a relatively tight age-span in each grade. One of my DC's was held back at another private with an August birthday. He transferred to Park is among the oldest 5 kids in his class. (For that DC holding him back was absolutely the right decision.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do pre-first register for activities that are grade based? For example, my kids camp asks what grade he will be in next fall in order to place him in the correct group. Choices are 1st or 2nd....

If you lived in Baltimore, you would just say pre-first. It really isn't complicated.

Do the public schools also have pre-first?

Yes - I went to public school in New Hampshire and went to pre-first.

The public schools in Baltimore and Baltimore County do not have pre-first. The Park School of Baltimore is the one major private school that also does not have pre-first and keeps their students within a relatively tight age-span in each grade. One of my DC's was held back at another private with an August birthday. He transferred to Park is among the oldest 5 kids in his class. (For that DC holding him back was absolutely the right decision.)

True, but it wasn't uncommon at our Baltimore public elementary for kids to do k and prefirst at their preschool and then go public in 1st and switch to p I ate for middle or high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I choose to believe that the teachers at my kids' school have their students' best interests at heart, and are making the recommendations that they believe will help a kid most, even if that recommendation results in a difficult conversation with a family who doesn't believe their child could benefit from another year.

I'm the PP with the son who was recommended for Pre-First but went on to First instead.

I believe his teachers had his best interests at heart. We had several conversations with them and the administration and I believe the reason they agreed to a move directly into First was because we pointed out aspects of his personality that they were downplaying in their recommendation for another year. I suspect they thought some things they were seeing were transient, things he would grow out of with another year of maturity (they weren't) and I also think they didn't weigh how important it can be for some children to have a challenge they need to rise to meet rather than easily meeting expectations.

Where a birthday falls matters a great deal. A child with a spring birthday might get more consideration, but a child with even an early summer birthday has to be fairly outstanding academically and socially for the school to even consider not sending the child on to Pre-First. That lends some weight to the perhaps overly-conspiratorial feeling that schools are milking an extra year of tuition and appreciate that older students are more likely to perform better athletically and in college acceptances.