What to do about Affordable Housing in Arlington?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
First off, those new all AH buildings are hardly tenements.

I am not sure they are all in one or two neighborhoods. Many are on Col Pike and Buckingham Gardens, but there is also that apt complex on Glebe near Crystal City, and I think some proposals elsewhere. Also there are prospects to move up - the neighborhoods they are in are still mixed income, and the kids attend some pretty decent schools - I don't think they are condemned to multigenerational poverty.

https://www.arlnow.com/2016/05/13/nauck-apartment-residents-demand-better-living-conditions/


Er, poor customer service? C'mon now. A tenement is a place that is physically barely liveable. Not a poorly managed building. Or even one with crime. And, BTW, that is one building - out of several CAH buildings in Arlington.

Maybe it's not Cabrini-Green, but we can and should do better.


Even Cabrini Green was not a tenement. Tenements are the horrible places people lived in that projects like Cabrini Green replaced. Places without hot water, often without indoor plumbing, with limited light and air, subject to frequent fires, disease, etc.


The economic profile of the west end of the Pike (west of Four Mile Run) has decreased significantly in recent years,

I am not sure about that. Yes, there have been a few low income buildings built, but there has been at least one new market rate building (5500) and I think the market rate older hi rises have at least held their own - and as far as I can gather, the nearby SFHs have been appreciating.

and there are more proposals for this area that will push it even further into concentrated poverty territory.

I believe there are also some market rate development proposals.

You are wrong about this. Yes, nearby SFH's have held their value, but they are nearby and not within the same Civic Association I'm speaking about. There are no market rate developments proposed within this civic association. 5500 was built before Arlington Mill was completed, before The Shell broke ground, before The Serranno was converted to CAF's.

Also, I think it's fair to point out where residents themselves are not entirely pleased with their living conditions. Especially considering this property just appealed to the county for an interest rate reduction and received it. If we're spending the money to provide safe, stable housing for families to get a foothold in Arlington, which I believe is a worthy goal, let's make sure we're doing the very best we can. But whatever, I guess everything is either FOR or AGAINST.

[Anonymous]

You are wrong about this. Yes, nearby SFH's have held their value, but they are[i] nearby and not within the same Civic Association I'm speaking about.[/i]

I did not know that you were speaking about Civic Association boundaries, and I am not sure they are relevant.

There are no market rate developments proposed within this civic association.


So the Food Star is not within the CA? Ok. But isn't it close to all the CAH?

5500 was built before Arlington Mill was completed, before The Shell broke ground,

You did not specify the period when the SES has declined. So the SES increased, and then it declined? In an area as small as a CA, since development is lumpy, it is likely you will get fluctuations like that.


before The Serranno was converted to CAF's.

Was it not market rate AH before that?

Also, I think it's fair to point out where residents themselves are not entirely pleased with their living conditions. Especially considering this property just appealed to the county for an interest rate reduction and received it. If we're spending the money to provide safe, stable housing for families to get a foothold in Arlington, which I believe is a worthy goal, let's make sure we're doing the very best we can. But whatever, I guess everything is either FOR or AGAINST.

If you are suggesting that management at the Nauck building should be improved, I heartily agree. Is anyone disagreeing? The issue is you are using the management issues there to claim that all the committed AH buildings in Arlington are "tenements" with the implication that they are making the western Pike a slum, which I think is thoroughly inaccurate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The affordable housing study shows that the number of "market rate affordable" units -- the apartments that a family of four making 60% of the average median income of $107,000 can afford -- dropped from over 10,000 apartments in 2004 to just over 3,000 units in 2014. That is the displacement of 7,000 moderate income families who lived in Arlington--for example, the huge Arna Valley complex that was knocked down and replaced with "The Avalon" and "The Harlowe," or the blocks and blocks of Buckingham Village apartments that are now $800,000 townhouses.

While yes, this is market forces at work and developers have the right to build on their property to its highest use within the zoning laws, its also not unreasonable that the county should try and do something to help out lower income county residents by trying to staunch the losses. If you immigrated from here in the 90's, had your kids at VHC, send them to APS schools, work in Arlington or DC or Fairfax, whatever---it sucks that your landlord can kick you out and you have to move to Manassas that is an hour from your job and pull your kids out of school and where you don't know anyone. No one is entitled to live anywhere, but it's not crazy to say that as an extremely wealthy county--that is wealthy in part because the value of real estate has increased so much--we should spend some of that wealth to help out those displaced by its acquisition.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Also to the PPs talking about "poor" people and their limited choices--I moved to Arlington to work as an RN. I previously worked as a teacher before changing careers. I would be hard pressed to afford an apartment as either a teacher or a nurse. When you talk about affordable housing remember that you're not just keeping out people's maids or nannies but also nurses, teachers, EMTs, police, firefighters....

[Anonymous]

That was very well written. Thank you for taking the time. I guess I just really struggle to see why the government should be playing a role in this at all.

It's a risk you take as a renter instead of buying a place that the owner could sell or increase your rent.

Other people have made the argument. I would love to live in say I dunno Great Falls in a 5 million dollar mansion. I don't have any right to that. I live where I can afford it.

Ready for the conclusion. Nurse lady this policy is hurting you. If the market was left alone housing would continue to increase and pay attention wages would have to increase to attract people who actually wanted the jobs and not have a super long commute. Noone is forcing a teacher, laborer, to live in Arlington... move where you can afford to live.

[Anonymous]

That was very well written. Thank you for taking the time. I guess I just really struggle to see why the government should be playing a role in this at all.


Because the degree to which our society is segregated by class is an outcome that effects us all.


Other people have made the argument. I would love to live in say I dunno Great Falls in a 5 million dollar mansion. I don't have any right to that. I live where I can afford it.

One more time, building some committed affordable housing does not create a 'right'. It is not about rights. It is about whether we are better off with some degree of economic diversity in our communities. Note also - you may be able to buy a smaller house in Great Falls. Folks getting AH in Arlington are not getting the most desirable housing in Arlington.

" If the market was left alone housing would continue to increase and pay attention wages would have to increase to attract people who actually wanted the jobs and not have a super long commute."

While wages would likely raise, it is not a priori possible to say if it would be enough to make this nurse (and others like her) as well off. That depends on the labor market dynamics. It is also likely that many in her position would end up commuting long distances, adding to congestion, emissions, etc. And you know what, it just might be good for your kids to grow up alongside the kids of nurses, EMTs, etc.

Noone is forcing a teacher, laborer, to live in Arlington... move where you can afford to live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The affordable housing study shows that the number of "market rate affordable" units -- the apartments that a family of four making 60% of the average median income of $107,000 can afford -- dropped from over 10,000 apartments in 2004 to just over 3,000 units in 2014. That is the displacement of 7,000 moderate income families who lived in Arlington--for example, the huge Arna Valley complex that was knocked down and replaced with "The Avalon" and "The Harlowe," or the blocks and blocks of Buckingham Village apartments that are now $800,000 townhouses.

While yes, this is market forces at work and developers have the right to build on their property to its highest use within the zoning laws, its also not unreasonable that the county should try and do something to help out lower income county residents by trying to staunch the losses. If you immigrated from here in the 90's, had your kids at VHC, send them to APS schools, work in Arlington or DC or Fairfax, whatever---it sucks that your landlord can kick you out and you have to move to Manassas that is an hour from your job and pull your kids out of school and where you don't know anyone. No one is entitled to live anywhere, but it's not crazy to say that as an extremely wealthy county--that is wealthy in part because the value of real estate has increased so much--we should spend some of that wealth to help out those displaced by its acquisition.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

Also to the PPs talking about "poor" people and their limited choices--I moved to Arlington to work as an RN. I previously worked as a teacher before changing careers. I would be hard pressed to afford an apartment as either a teacher or a nurse. When you talk about affordable housing remember that you're not just keeping out people's maids or nannies but also nurses, teachers, EMTs, police, firefighters....

Actually it's cab drivers and construction workers...

https://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2014/02/Occupations-of-Tenants-of-CAFs-Feb-2015.pdf

[Anonymous]

When I read the argument for affordable housing it tugs at my heart strings. Then I see the reality of it, as its played out on the western end of Columbia Pike. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

One major problem with affordable housing that rarely if ever gets discussed is that it dooms the people living there to generations of poverty.

In the rush to make their white liberal guilt feel better, there is a belief that somehow propping people up in housing in an area where their very limited income is going to be spent on goods that are already just slightly priced higher for a lifetime, coupled with no understanding of how to get of their situation, leads to long term, generational poverty. If you doubt this, drive over to Old Town, grab a donut at Sugar Shack and admire the public housing where a majority of residents having been living for 20+ years.

I actually now oppose any form of "affordable housing" because it just hurts families way more than it will ever help.

These families aren't saving - they are spending what limited income they have to just tread water in an already too costly area. Sometimes, these families don't even understand the value of savings.

These families are likely not going to get into the middle class. They do not understand how to get there (need to have less kids, need to save money vs. buying iphones, cable, etc, need to worry about school work, need to learn conversational English, etc) and they have no way of knowing this. All their neighbors live like they do. When everyone around you is doing the same thing, you think it's normal.

I think both Alexandria and Arlington governments should get out of the housing game all together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One major problem with affordable housing that rarely if ever gets discussed is that it dooms the people living there to generations of poverty.

In the rush to make their white liberal guilt feel better, there is a belief that somehow propping people up in housing in an area where their very limited income is going to be spent on goods that are already just slightly priced higher for a lifetime, coupled with no understanding of how to get of their situation, leads to long term, generational poverty. If you doubt this, drive over to Old Town, grab a donut at Sugar Shack and admire the public housing where a majority of residents having been living for 20+ years.

I actually now oppose any form of "affordable housing" because it just hurts families way more than it will ever help.

These families aren't saving - they are spending what limited income they have to just tread water in an already too costly area. Sometimes, these families don't even understand the value of savings.

These families are likely not going to get into the middle class. They do not understand how to get there (need to have less kids, need to save money vs. buying iphones, cable, etc, need to worry about school work, need to learn conversational English, etc) and they have no way of knowing this. All their neighbors live like they do. When everyone around you is doing the same thing, you think it's normal.

I think both Alexandria and Arlington governments should get out of the housing game all together.

thanks for the sweeping generalizations, based entirely on anecdotal data. I can come up with numerous other anecdotes of kids who grew up in affordable housing and are now doing quite well for themselves.


I have three close friends who live in affordable housing. Honestly, your raging stereotype doesn't apply to any of the three of them.

[Anonymous]

Look at page 3 of this report. It's a study Arlington County did about the jobs the Affordable Housing people have:

http://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2014/02/Occupations-of-Tenants-of-CAFs-Feb-2015.pdf

They are mostly food service workers, construction, office and admin, and taxi drivers.

So 3 out of 4 top tenant occupations are KNOWN for under-the-table cash payments. So are they fully disclosing and paying taxes on all their earnings? Or are they committing fraud?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Look at page 3 of this report. It's a study Arlington County did about the jobs the Affordable Housing people have:

http://arlingtonva.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/15/2014/02/Occupations-of-Tenants-of-CAFs-Feb-2015.pdf

They are mostly food service workers, construction, office and admin, and taxi drivers.

So 3 out of 4 top tenant occupations are KNOWN for under-the-table cash payments. So are they fully disclosing and paying taxes on all their earnings? Or are they committing fraud?

There are NO teachers, nurses, fire fighters, librarians, etc. getting affordable housing. The data there in that report shows that. Very depressing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When everyone around you is doing the same thing, you think it's normal.

You seem to assume that in the absence of committed affordable housing in Arlington or Alexandria, they would be living with good role models. Have you ever spent any time around private market rate AH - places like Culmore, the cheap apt complexes in Annandale or or Sterling or PG County?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When everyone around you is doing the same thing, you think it's normal.

You seem to assume that in the absence of committed affordable housing in Arlington or Alexandria, they would be living with good role models. Have you ever spent any time around private market rate AH - places like Culmore, the cheap apt complexes in Annandale or or Sterling or PG County?

They may not have good role models in the absence of CAH, but Arlington and Alexandria would not be squandering millions of dollars, either. That money could do a lot of good for other, more beneficial programs (both for low-income, and the increasingly squeezed middle class).

- Not PP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When everyone around you is doing the same thing, you think it's normal.

You seem to assume that in the absence of committed affordable housing in Arlington or Alexandria, they would be living with good role models. Have you ever spent any time around private market rate AH - places like Culmore, the cheap apt complexes in Annandale or or Sterling or PG County?

They may not have good role models in the absence of CAH, but Arlington and Alexandria would not be squandering millions of dollars, either. That money could do a lot of good for other, more beneficial programs (both for low-income, and the increasingly squeezed middle class).

- Not PP

Arlington and Alexandria in that case would likely be more homogeneous - more uniformly affluent and white. And in the case of Alexandria, losing much of our historic african american population. Also there would be far more resistance to development and improvement - without things like inclusionary zoning, the poor might well join the affluent NIMBY's in opposing desirable changes.

[Anonymous]

A case could be made for spending the money toward better mass transit to get people in and out of urban centers more quickly. That benefits eveyone- not just a few lucky lottery winners. Also, taxpayers money goes further farther out. You can house more people less expensively in the exurbs. Again, more people get the benefit of the housing.