Yoga is Hindu. Period.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, OP. I'm Hindu, I practice yoga, my parents practice yoga, etc.... Our view on this so-called "cultural appropriation" crap is that if it's helping people to become healthier, happier, and more aware of the world around them, we don't see what the problem is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your yoga practice can be whatever you want it to be. The Hindu religion doesn't "own" yoga.

+1 it's a firm of meditation and exercise.

I think this sort of statement is what OP is pissed about. I agree it would be helpful if people who practice yoga understand the history and meaning instead of just calling it exercise.

And I think you meant to say form.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your yoga practice can be whatever you want it to be. The Hindu religion doesn't "own" yoga.

+1 it's a firm of meditation and exercise.

I think this sort of statement is what OP is pissed about. I agree it would be helpful if people who practice yoga understand the history and meaning instead of just calling it exercise.

And I think you meant to say form.

I think it's exactly the sort of statement that OP is upset about. However, I and some PPs disagree with OP. Being healthy is good, it's not insulting someone's religion. And, it's arguable that the physical part of yoga is not a tradition that dates back millenia, or even centuries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, OP. I'm Hindu, I practice yoga, my parents practice yoga, etc.... Our view on this so-called "cultural appropriation" crap is that if it's helping people to become healthier, happier, and more aware of the world around them, we don't see what the problem is.

Then you're being irresponsible and your refusal to acknowledge the cultural appropriation because you think it's somehow incompatible with being secular, or whatever (it's not, FYI) just shows that you're not actually aware of what cultural appropriation is.

It's a sliding slope. I don't think Western yoga practitioners are evil by any means, and you can benefit from a religious practice...as long as you know what you're practicing.

Do you think Native Americans aren't aware that modern "shamanism" is blatantly, and grossly inaccurately, appropriated from Native American religious practices? Do you think practicing Jewish people aren't aware that the Judaism mystical tradition of the Kabbalah isn't watered down, diluted, and repackaged in New Age-friendly bullshit?

I am not going to go, "It's okay for Ariana Grande to prattle about her Kabbalah mastery because fuck Judaism, at least fake Kabbalah is making Ariana Grande happy!"

In Hinduism, appropriation has actually taken a pretty sinister/evil turn just when you look at recent history. The swastika being appropriated by Nazis is a big one.

So I'm sorry you think this isn't a big deal, but I disagree.

[Anonymous]

I agree that most commercialized versions we see today is cultural appropriation. It would be akin to non-Catholics and non-Christians suddenly taking communion because it would be a light and healthy snack that would curb between-meal cravings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, OP. I'm Hindu, I practice yoga, my parents practice yoga, etc.... Our view on this so-called "cultural appropriation" crap is that if it's helping people to become healthier, happier, and more aware of the world around them, we don't see what the problem is.

Then you're being irresponsible and your refusal to acknowledge the cultural appropriation because you think it's somehow incompatible with being secular, or whatever (it's not, FYI) just shows that you're not actually aware of what cultural appropriation is.

It's a sliding slope. I don't think Western yoga practitioners are evil by any means, and you can benefit from a religious practice...as long as you know what you're practicing.

Do you think Native Americans aren't aware that modern "shamanism" is blatantly, and grossly inaccurately, appropriated from Native American religious practices? Do you think practicing Jewish people aren't aware that the Judaism mystical tradition of the Kabbalah isn't watered down, diluted, and repackaged in New Age-friendly bullshit?

I am not going to go, "It's okay for Ariana Grande to prattle about her Kabbalah mastery because fuck Judaism, at least fake Kabbalah is making Ariana Grande happy!"

In Hinduism, appropriation has actually taken a pretty sinister/evil turn just when you look at recent history. The swastika being appropriated by Nazis is a big one.

So I'm sorry you think this isn't a big deal, but I disagree.

You really need to take a chill pill, OP. Hey, why not try some yoga?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm of Indian descent. Yoga weirds me out precisely because of this.

Especially when they use Hindi or other made-up Hindi-like words/phrases/chants.

They're not Hindi chants. It's Sanskrit, not Hindi.

As for OP, there are schools of Hinduism that are pretty close to being atheistic. They don't have a notion of a personal god, which is what most American atheists reject. So it's possible to be an atheist and a yogi at the same time. Union with the divine doesn't necessarily mean union with a specific personal god. "Divine" is a pretty open-ended concept. And a lot of yogic texts are very vague on the notion of what "divine" actually means.

As for the whole debate about cultural appropriation, pretty much all of my Hindu friends celebrate Christmas and participate in Christmas, and they don't care if Americans meditate and say Sanskrit chants. The thing they mind is when Americans (or Indians for that matter) try to copyright poses and phrases that have been around for hundreds of years in order to profit from them.

Most of the yoga teachers I know don't make a lot of money from their classes. The money maker is the studios and their teacher training programs. I take issue with them only because I don't know that they're really adequately regulated so that people who know anatomy and philosophy are running it.

I don't know why people are so touchy about it all. The thing about Hinduism is that it has drawn from so many other traditions. My theology professors said that part of what has made it so dynamic is its ability to absorb other philosophical movements.

One of the most physical forms of yoga, by the way, is Ashtanga. It's not just in the West that there are different styles of yoga, some more physical than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh, OP. I'm Hindu, I practice yoga, my parents practice yoga, etc.... Our view on this so-called "cultural appropriation" crap is that if it's helping people to become healthier, happier, and more aware of the world around them, we don't see what the problem is.

Then you're being irresponsible and your refusal to acknowledge the cultural appropriation because you think it's somehow incompatible with being secular, or whatever (it's not, FYI) just shows that you're not actually aware of what cultural appropriation is.

It's a sliding slope. I don't think Western yoga practitioners are evil by any means, and you can benefit from a religious practice...as long as you know what you're practicing.

Do you think Native Americans aren't aware that modern "shamanism" is blatantly, and grossly inaccurately, appropriated from Native American religious practices? Do you think practicing Jewish people aren't aware that the Judaism mystical tradition of the Kabbalah isn't watered down, diluted, and repackaged in New Age-friendly bullshit?

I am not going to go, "It's okay for Ariana Grande to prattle about her Kabbalah mastery because fuck Judaism, at least fake Kabbalah is making Ariana Grande happy!"

In Hinduism, appropriation has actually taken a pretty sinister/evil turn just when you look at recent history. The swastika being appropriated by Nazis is a big one.

So I'm sorry you think this isn't a big deal, but I disagree.

You really need to take a chill pill, OP. Hey, why not try some yoga?!

I do practice yoga.

Also, a reasoned, thought-out, calm reply to someone who said "Ugh" to vent their frustration doesn't require a "chill pill". Combining an exclamation point and a question mark may indicate that you need one, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your yoga practice can be whatever you want it to be. The Hindu religion doesn't "own" yoga.

+1 it's a firm of meditation and exercise.

I think this sort of statement is what OP is pissed about. I agree it would be helpful if people who practice yoga understand the history and meaning instead of just calling it exercise.

And I think you meant to say form.

That's exactly the statement that my Indian friend's father used when he described to me why he does yoga, "meditation and exercise." But whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

I think you and your friend would enjoy this book, The Goddess Pose:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/06/01/411202468/those-yoga-poses-may-not-be-ancient-after-all-and-maybe-thats-ok

Not OP. But the audacity of the author baffles me. ( or maybe not). Like she is an authority on it.

She did a well researched book on the origins of how yoga came to this country. Listen to the interview at least. Westerners started calling themselves yogis and promoting the practice of "yoga" during the Theosophy movement about 150 years ago. (Theosophy also influenced leaders and movements in India as well so it wasn't completely one sided.)

However, the I understand how the OP feels--that it is a cultural misappropriation to call yourself a "yogi." Personally, I roll my eyes when celebrities embrace the Kabbalah as their spiritual awakening, e.g., Madonna.

Culture isn't static though. Nobody owns it. Hopefully these spiritual journeys come from a good place and not just cultural misappropriations of the moment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of Indian descent. Yoga weirds me out precisely because of this.

Especially when they use Hindi or other made-up Hindi-like words/phrases/chants.

They're not Hindi chants. It's Sanskrit, not Hindi.

As for OP, there are schools of Hinduism that are pretty close to being atheistic. They don't have a notion of a personal god, which is what most American atheists reject. So it's possible to be an atheist and a yogi at the same time. Union with the divine doesn't necessarily mean union with a specific personal god. "Divine" is a pretty open-ended concept. And a lot of yogic texts are very vague on the notion of what "divine" actually means.

As for the whole debate about cultural appropriation, pretty much all of my Hindu friends celebrate Christmas and participate in Christmas, and they don't care if Americans meditate and say Sanskrit chants. The thing they mind is when Americans (or Indians for that matter) try to copyright poses and phrases that have been around for hundreds of years in order to profit from them.

Most of the yoga teachers I know don't make a lot of money from their classes. The money maker is the studios and their teacher training programs. I take issue with them only because I don't know that they're really adequately regulated so that people who know anatomy and philosophy are running it.

I don't know why people are so touchy about it all. The thing about Hinduism is that it has drawn from so many other traditions. My theology professors said that part of what has made it so dynamic is its ability to absorb other philosophical movements.

One of the most physical forms of yoga, by the way, is Ashtanga. It's not just in the West that there are different styles of yoga, some more physical than others.

This is actually a great response, thank you. (I'm the OP).

The interesting difference here is that Charvaka isn't Hinduism, it's an Indian philosophical school that more or less separated from Hinduism. So I wouldn't describe it as a Hindu atheistic tradition, anymore that Jainism or Buddhism or Sikhism are Hindu. Charvaka is a school of materialism. It's also really interesting but I should be careful about going off on a tangent here. What I'm trying to say is that yes, there are Indian philosophical schools that do not believe in a personal god - Buddhism, Charvaka, and Jainism are great examples of these. But they are not Hindu.

Hinduism may share central terms with other Indian religions/philosophies, but the terms are defined slightly differently in each tradition to the point where you could say that dharma, karma, and samsara mean different things to Hindus, Jains and Buddhists.

Hindus do worship a creator god, whether directly as Brahman are under the philosophy that the formless takes form in specific deities. Yoga reflects that. It's a Hindu philosophical school, where the practice either brings you closer to the abstract, formless Brahman directly or through the devas, or the gods. (For example, the surya namaskar is literally worship of the sun god, Surya.)

The issue with me commenting on the Christmas tradition is that Christmas is a hot-button issue not only for Christians who see their religious holiday being appropriated, but also people who identify as Wiccan/Celtic and consider Christmas a pagan winter solstice holiday soooo....I think Christmas is really its own topic and likely deserves its own thread.

Like I said, my issue is not the study of yoga but the appropriation of it, where the study is disassociated from its context. I gave an example from my own life, where I mentioned that I found the Kabbalah utterly fascinating to read about, but would not under any circumstances tell people that I practice it. I'm not practicing Judaism, and I recognize that I cannot say I practice the Kabbalah unless I also practice Judaism. Does that mean I find the Kabbalah any less enlightening and fascinating? No. But it does mean that I recognize it as an esoteric, closed tradition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm of Indian descent. Yoga weirds me out precisely because of this.

Especially when they use Hindi or other made-up Hindi-like words/phrases/chants.

They're not Hindi chants. It's Sanskrit, not Hindi.

As for OP, there are schools of Hinduism that are pretty close to being atheistic. They don't have a notion of a personal god, which is what most American atheists reject. So it's possible to be an atheist and a yogi at the same time. Union with the divine doesn't necessarily mean union with a specific personal god. "Divine" is a pretty open-ended concept. And a lot of yogic texts are very vague on the notion of what "divine" actually means.

As for the whole debate about cultural appropriation, pretty much all of my Hindu friends celebrate Christmas and participate in Christmas, and they don't care if Americans meditate and say Sanskrit chants. The thing they mind is when Americans (or Indians for that matter) try to copyright poses and phrases that have been around for hundreds of years in order to profit from them.

Most of the yoga teachers I know don't make a lot of money from their classes. The money maker is the studios and their teacher training programs. I take issue with them only because I don't know that they're really adequately regulated so that people who know anatomy and philosophy are running it.

I don't know why people are so touchy about it all. The thing about Hinduism is that it has drawn from so many other traditions. My theology professors said that part of what has made it so dynamic is its ability to absorb other philosophical movements.

One of the most physical forms of yoga, by the way, is Ashtanga. It's not just in the West that there are different styles of yoga, some more physical than others.

Do you recall which ones? I wonder why this is not taught in Indian schools...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And I'll just add, THANK YOU for pointing out how far Western yoga practitioners (not all, but quite a few) will say they believe in "Yoga" and "Vedanta" but deliberately avoid using "Hinduism" because of its polytheist aspects.

Yet they are perfectly okay using the word "Buddhism". A lot of this comes from the mistaken belief that Buddhism is atheist. It's not. Buddhism also has a very polytheistic pantheon, which gets dismissed because who wants to acknowledge Kuan Yin, Tara, and Manjushri?

Hindu religion is not polytheistic. It has one God, referred to as Ishvara, Brahman, Parameshvara, etc. All the others are just aspects of this one God. Only Ishvara, Brahman, etc. are complete. Christianity has the holy trinity. Does that make it polytheistic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I'll just add, THANK YOU for pointing out how far Western yoga practitioners (not all, but quite a few) will say they believe in "Yoga" and "Vedanta" but deliberately avoid using "Hinduism" because of its polytheist aspects.

Yet they are perfectly okay using the word "Buddhism". A lot of this comes from the mistaken belief that Buddhism is atheist. It's not. Buddhism also has a very polytheistic pantheon, which gets dismissed because who wants to acknowledge Kuan Yin, Tara, and Manjushri?

Hindu religion is not polytheistic. It has one God, referred to as Ishvara, Brahman, Parameshvara, etc. All the others are just aspects of this one God. Only Ishvara, Brahman, etc. are complete. Christianity has the holy trinity. Does that make it polytheistic?

OP here. A lot of modern Hindus try to hand-wave the polytheistic element of Hinduism these days, and I don't know why. Polytheism and monotheism and pantheism are not mutually exclusive in Hinduism. I think it's frankly weird that modern Hinduism are embarrassed about our polytheistic practices.

The one God is Ishvara, Brahman, or Adi Shakti...but the one God takes many forms. I have 3 deities at my home puja shrine, and you can bet that I worship them as deities, not abstract symbols. Each deity can lead you back to Brahman, and that is the beauty of Hinduism.

Yes, all the deities are aspects of Brahman, but to say "Hinduism isn't polytheistic" is to ignore that the deities themselves have divinity.

[Anonymous]

We all are Hindus.

Hindus believe that one God manifests in different forms for different people and follower of different religions. So, the world is full of Christian Hindus and Jewish Hindus and Muslim Hindus etc.

Hindus also believe that this God is omnipotent and omnipresent and does not require that you believe in God or not. Your devotion and belief is not necessary for this God.


Hindus believe that you have the choice to live a life of good deeds towards others or not. The results of the good deeds will be good and the bad deeds will be bad to you. Intentions do not matter. The affect of your deeds matter. This is the theory of Karma or Work/Deed,

Since God has created this world, no one is inferior or superior. They just are. Religious intolerance, racial intolerance, SES intolerance etc. arises from people who do not respect their own God and do not have the belief that their God knows best and so have created different religions, races and different life circumstances etc.

What OP has written is true. But OP should not get upset about it. When people use Yoga as an exercise and not a part of spirituality and have imperfect and incorrect understanding of Yoga, they fail to get the full advantage of it. This is precisely how Karma (Work/Deed) is supposed to work.