Why is AU building such a large law school, given the job market?

[Anonymous]

Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

Because people feel compelled to complete some sort of post-secondary education, and law school is what people who are not inclined to STEM fall into. This expectation is not going to go away.

I've known people who have moved to podunk towns in Alabama and Louisiana to make use of their law degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe that American decided to build many years ago before the law school crash. From about 2006-2010, law school applications were at a peak. Since 2011 or 2012, applications have been way down, which has affected law schools across the country, including WCL. But I believe the plans for the building were already in motion, so I'm not sure there was much the school could do. Also, I'm not sure how many of those 2000 students are JD students and how many are LLMs, but as a PP said, WCL has a lot of foreign/LLM students.

And, btw, law school rankings (like most rankings) are seriously flawed. Schools game the system all the time. For example, GW employs many of its own graduates to improve its employment rate at graduation and, therefore, its US News ranking.

WCL may have a broader purpose, to anchor part of the AU campus solidly at Nebraska and Wisconsin. Long term, the vision would be to develop Nebraska past Massachusetts to the main campus as a dense corridor with major campus buildings, including mixed-use development.

This "vision" sounds like Ward 3 Vision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

+100. I graduated from undergrad in 2009. Many of my peers who opted for law school to avoid the turbulent post-crash job market are still struggling to find decent work. I struggled to find a job a few months after graduation yet still glad I decided against law school (despite intense LSAT prep) and the zillions in debt I'd take on despite shaky job prospects, even for star students.

I don't mean to deride lawyers but as a PP said the bottom half of law schools need to close tomorrow. A recent New York Times article mentioned that many T3 and T4 schools like Vermont Law will be forced to significantly scale down and lay off faculty or shut down over the next 5-10 years. Enrollment and revenue is way down compared to the late 2000s and they're turning out too many grads that no one wants to hire. The ABA accreditation process is way too lose unlike say, the AMA.

Shame that so many low income and high risk people in the US still can't get the help they need despite a glut of newly minted 20something JDs. New York State recently made 50 hours of community service mandatory for new grads to help with this problem. More states should follow suit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

Well, some JDs with debt do work as Baristas at Starbucks...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

Well, some JDs with debt do work as Baristas at Starbucks...

The cream rises to the top and quality sells. If someone is an editor on law review, they should have no trouble getting a good law job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

Well, some JDs with debt do work as Baristas at Starbucks...

The cream rises to the top and quality sells. If someone is an editor on law review, they should have no trouble getting a good law job.

How very elitist of you, sir or ma'am. Of course the top students do well. But don't you think that if a law school admits a student they owe them some realistic shot a good employment, even if they aren't on law review or Order of the Coif?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

+100. I graduated from undergrad in 2009. Many of my peers who opted for law school to avoid the turbulent post-crash job market are still struggling to find decent work. I struggled to find a job a few months after graduation yet still glad I decided against law school (despite intense LSAT prep) and the zillions in debt I'd take on despite shaky job prospects, even for star students.

I don't mean to deride lawyers but as a PP said the bottom half of law schools need to close tomorrow. A recent New York Times article mentioned that many T3 and T4 schools like Vermont Law will be forced to significantly scale down and lay off faculty or shut down over the next 5-10 years. Enrollment and revenue is way down compared to the late 2000s and they're turning out too many grads that no one wants to hire. The ABA accreditation process is way too lose unlike say, the AMA.

Shame that so many low income and high risk people in the US still can't get the help they need despite a glut of newly minted 20something JDs. New York State recently made 50 hours of community service mandatory for new grads to help with this problem. More states should follow suit.

Maybe 50 hours of community service should be mandatory for already employed members of the bar, like judges and law firm partners. I don't see how requiring 50 hours of free labor from only new graduates who are saddled with enormous debts and no job prospects is equitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

I graduated from a t14 law school and my employer paid for my LLM. Win win for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even a Georgetown Law the bottom half of the class often struggles to find good jobs. I know many recent graduates who were out of work for 6 months or even more after passing the bar. Some of them do an LLM program or temp legal work. Why anyone would want to waste 3 years and 150k to do document review is just beyond me. I'd rather be a Barista at Starbucks.

I graduated from a t14 law school and my employer paid for my LLM. Win win for me.

Wtf did you need the LLM for? Why does anyone need an LLM? I graduated law school, got a law license, got a terrible job, got a slightly less bad one, racking up trial experience along the way, now 7 years out I'm exactly where I want to be.

[Anonymous]

I had an intern (1L summer) from AU law, couldn't write worth a lick, but really nice person so we've kept in touch and she's now got a semi-decent job.

I had a coworker from AU law, same year as me, he quit after 9 months to go work for DOJ and seems to be advancing in his career.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps the new law school size is not unreasonable. People do lots of different things with law degrees, and AU-WCL is in the Nation's Capital, which is a draw for students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The job market is soft to near existent for many college majors. I can't forsee schools getting rid of programs just because they won't equal a job. I just don't think colleges care.

No, the correct thing to do would be to reduce the numbers admitted in order to maintain quality. But of course, AU and others do the opposite - increase admissions because it has been a cash cow. They obviously have to lower admissions standards, which has been happening in many schools. Many students are about to take on an enormous amount of debt for a very uncertain return. I would feel sorry for them, but hey, they wanted to be lawyers....

Well colleges and universities are in it to make money, it's still a business.

Uhhhhh. Colleges and universities are non-profits.

Non profits or not, they are still in it to make money. Schools don't run for free, someone has to pay salaries, utilities, etc. Most schools do a lot of work and outreach to attract dollars to their campus. I worked in with academic grants for years. Law schools are a huge money maker so I'm sure they are looking closely at the $$$ these additional students could brig.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I believe that American decided to build many years ago before the law school crash. From about 2006-2010, law school applications were at a peak. Since 2011 or 2012, applications have been way down, which has affected law schools across the country, including WCL. But I believe the plans for the building were already in motion, so I'm not sure there was much the school could do. Also, I'm not sure how many of those 2000 students are JD students and how many are LLMs, but as a PP said, WCL has a lot of foreign/LLM students.

And, btw, law school rankings (like most rankings) are seriously flawed. Schools game the system all the time. For example, GW employs many of its own graduates to improve its employment rate at graduation and, therefore, its US News ranking.

WCL may have a broader purpose, to anchor part of the AU campus solidly at Nebraska and Wisconsin. Long term, the vision would be to develop Nebraska past Massachusetts to the main campus as a dense corridor with major campus buildings, including mixed-use development.

This "vision" sounds like Ward 3 Vision.

I don't think so. Nebraska Avenue is anchored by several institutions and embassies. Mass Ave is already anchored by big apartment and condo buildings, and then residences going down to Spring Valley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the new law school size is not unreasonable. People do lots of different things with law degrees, and AU-WCL is in the Nation's Capital, which is a draw for students.

All the lawyers from the Rest of the Country move here too, though. Everyone in DC is already a lawyer. There aren't jobs for all these poor third-tier grads.