Photo essay -- living with debt in America

[Anonymous]

I feel like, growing up, I was told to go to the best college possible and pursue whatever interested me. The emphasis was always on getting an "Education" and not to worry about jobs, because I would spend the rest of my life working. This was a fantastic experience. I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees and you can always teach.

So I think there needs to be a stronger emphasis on getting a "Career." I want to actively encourage my children to really think about what jobs they may want, to really consider where they see themselves, etc. I am a strong advocate of Education. My husband is an Educator. But, there needs to be a focus on the purpose of Education.

My mother was a nurse. She hated that her choices growing up were basically teacher, nurse, or secretary. She pushed my sister and I to pursue knowledge and find our own path. Ultimately, we both wish she had instilled in us the desire to be a nurse. We would have made way more money, had more flexible job opportunities, and probably spent less on college.

Hindsight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like, growing up, I was told to go to the best college possible and pursue whatever interested me. The emphasis was always on getting an "Education" and not to worry about jobs, because I would spend the rest of my life working. This was a fantastic experience. I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees and you can always teach.

So I think there needs to be a stronger emphasis on getting a "Career." I want to actively encourage my children to really think about what jobs they may want, to really consider where they see themselves, etc. I am a strong advocate of Education. My husband is an Educator. But, there needs to be a focus on the purpose of Education.

My mother was a nurse. She hated that her choices growing up were basically teacher, nurse, or secretary. She pushed my sister and I to pursue knowledge and find our own path. Ultimately, we both wish she had instilled in us the desire to be a nurse. We would have made way more money, had more flexible job opportunities, and probably spent less on college.

Hindsight.

I am one of the PPs and this is exactly what we were talking about. We were told the same things growing up and I think a lot of that is historical perspective. To our parents (early boomers in my case) this was actually good advice because, like PP's successful attorney mother, a bachelor's degree in their time regardless of subject matter (within reason) was a guaranteed foot in the door to a good job. I think those days are gone for two simple reasons. First, the staggering cost of education. It simply is too much of an economic hardship/risk to attend college and "figure it out while you are there". You need a solid plan that makes sense for your intended career path. Don't know what you want to do yet? Ok, maybe college is a year or two away and you can spend that time working or volunteering overseas and gain valuable experience that might lead to a clearer picture for eventual college matriculation. Second, the watering down of the college degree credential. We talked about this a bit earlier too. College degrees are a dime a dozen now so that alone isn't the golden ticket it once was. These two factors combine in my mind to indicate that the present reality is such that not everybody should go to college and if you are college bound you should have a solid plan of how to accomplish what you need to accomplish with your education in the most cost-effective way possible while ensuring that you have what you need in skills, experience and education to jump into your chosen career as soon as you graduate with as little debt as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

Agree completely. I also don't understand how most 18 year olds can know exactly what career they want. We all know lawyers, engineers , doctors and nurses who regret their decision and are now either going back to school or feel trapped. Picking a career path at 18 doesn't seem to be the answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

One take-away for me is how helpful it would be for every high school student to be able to take a class on personal finance.

It's a requirement for HS graduation in FFX

Actually this is fairly well-studied and teaching financial literacy seems to have very little positive effect. It seems like it should be a no brainer to do this, but most research shows little benefit. (I can kind of understand why reading DCUM's Money and Finance board, where people who are making basic math errors are very certain they are financially literate.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means let's all get degrees that yield the highest salary possible without any culture or education. No wonder we are all so miserable. Who do you think is going to teach your kids in high school? Who will run the museums? Who will you buy a car from? Get off your high horse and figure out now to make education (in any field) morse affordable instead of bashing the thinkers of the society.

I agree in an idealistic sort of way that it ought to be different. Show me a petition that says teachers should be paid more and I'll sign it, but we both know that's not going to help anything. I think the key is being smart about choices. For example, teachers don't need to go to GW to be teachers. Same with nursing. If DC wanted to do either of those things then DC would be doing 2 years at junior college and then transferring into Mason on in-state tuition and finishing out with no debt. If DC #2 is a mediocre student, but seems to have his father's knack for fixing things then DC is going to look hard at becoming a master electrician instead of "giving college a try" and coming out with no degree and saddled with debt. He may also look at the military since that may be the best of both worlds as far as cultivating skill in a trade and also giving him the option for a debt free education should he decide later that working on submarines isn't his thing.

I am the one you are responding to. We don't disagree on much. I completely agree that college is not for everyone. It can actually make talented people feel lesser than (meaning they could be a lot happier in a field that doesn't require all that work to get a degree). I am just not in favor for mocking people who choose to get a LA degree even if their earning potential is not great. We should embrace the thinkers, the artists, the historians just as much as we embrace the money makers. I'm just seeing a cultural shift towards money making that is not healthy.

Agree completely. I also don't understand how most 18 year olds can know exactly what career they want. We all know lawyers, engineers , doctors and nurses who regret their decision and are now either going back to school or feel trapped. Picking a career path at 18 doesn't seem to be the answer.

Dropping the cost sure seems like it would help since it has outstripped inflation for so long. Education cost is a much larger percentage of annual compensation to the average American family today than it was 20-30 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Liberal arts majors aren't actually bad investments.

First, while engineering and computer science majors from liberal arts colleges both produce higher average salaries than social sciences and humanities majors from liberal arts colleges, all of these categories significantly outperform non-college graduates and people who graduated from community college and technical college. The fact that you might be able to make slightly more on average with a CS degree than an anthropology degree doesn't mean that they aren't both good investments.

Second, the sole purpose of a degree is not to make money. Several studies suggest that people who obtain a social studies or humanities degree are on average happier than people who obtain other degrees. Since the purpose of making money is primarily to be happy, prioritizing money over happiness seems shortsighted.

Third, the people who make the most money are individuals who get graduate degrees, and it is not at all clear that liberal arts majors are disadvantaged in graduate school admission. In fact, humanities majors are admitted to medical school at a HIGHER rate than science majors. Philosophy majors, who might be the brunt of the largest amount of "useless degree" jokes of all, have some of the highest rates of admission into top graduate programs.

Finally, liberal arts majors arguably provide a more portable skill. Some types of engineering, for example, are highly specialized. If the market for that type of engineer is strong, they have a great economic outlook. If the market shifts suddenly, they are in dire shape. An English major might have lower average earnings, but the odds of jobs suddenly disappearing for people who can read, write, and think effectively is close to nil, so the downside risk is lower, which is a relevant factor when you're about to go deep into debt.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, one other factor: What a child's natural aptitude is should obviously play into the analysis. If a kid is gifted at verbal and terrible at math, it seems unlikely that pushing her into the field she's worse at will pay off in the long run. I would rather have my child among the top 10% of psychology majors than the bottom 33% of engineers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees

LOL, who on EARTH told you that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like, growing up, I was told to go to the best college possible and pursue whatever interested me. The emphasis was always on getting an "Education" and not to worry about jobs, because I would spend the rest of my life working. This was a fantastic experience. I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees and you can always teach.

So I think there needs to be a stronger emphasis on getting a "Career." I want to actively encourage my children to really think about what jobs they may want, to really consider where they see themselves, etc. I am a strong advocate of Education. My husband is an Educator. But, there needs to be a focus on the purpose of Education.

My mother was a nurse. She hated that her choices growing up were basically teacher, nurse, or secretary. She pushed my sister and I to pursue knowledge and find our own path. Ultimately, we both wish she had instilled in us the desire to be a nurse. We would have made way more money, had more flexible job opportunities, and probably spent less on college.

Hindsight.

I was told the same thing as well. I remember fretting over what major to choose freshman year and my dad who is an Engineer told me not to worry about it and just pick a major that interested me. I don't ever recall being told that liberal arts degrees were bad choices and I graduated right around the time the economy started to tank also. Only now do I hear that liberal arts major are bad choices. I did end up majoring in Economics which as actually worked out quite well for me though.

[Anonymous]

Years ago Pharmacy used to be a high paid field to go into with plenty of jobs. Companies were giving out big bonuses just to hire pharmacists. Well the field got flooded with new grads and a lot of pharmacists were struggling to find jobs. The same thing happened with nursing and law. Everyone saw those fields as the golden ticket to the good life and now there are plenty of unemployed and underemployed nurses and lawyers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like, growing up, I was told to go to the best college possible and pursue whatever interested me. The emphasis was always on getting an "Education" and not to worry about jobs, because I would spend the rest of my life working. This was a fantastic experience. I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees and you can always teach.

So I think there needs to be a stronger emphasis on getting a "Career." I want to actively encourage my children to really think about what jobs they may want, to really consider where they see themselves, etc. I am a strong advocate of Education. My husband is an Educator. But, there needs to be a focus on the purpose of Education.

My mother was a nurse. She hated that her choices growing up were basically teacher, nurse, or secretary. She pushed my sister and I to pursue knowledge and find our own path. Ultimately, we both wish she had instilled in us the desire to be a nurse. We would have made way more money, had more flexible job opportunities, and probably spent less on college.

Hindsight.

Exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Easy money, easy access, easy to get into debt. If you're smart enough to go to college you should be smart enough to handle finances. Ignorance is no excuse. Most of that money went to living large. That I can safely say is true.

College isn't for everyone. And if you want it, you can work your way through without debt or have manageable debt.

That being said, boo hoo. The internet makes it easy for you to claim victim status. Even beg for money. I'm sure some rich DC Mom or Dad will help these poor children pay off their debt.

When I ran up medical debt, I was expected to pay it. No one gave me money or forgave my debts.

Want to see my scars ?

You don't have to be smart to go to college. Do you really think that?

[Anonymous]

The world needs ditch diggers too, as someone once said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The world needs ditch diggers too, as someone once said.

Yes, a villain in a comedy movie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I double majored in History and English, because I loved studying them. People consistently told me you can do ANYTHING with these degrees

LOL, who on EARTH told you that?

This is common knowledge. Ask any HR department about the writing skills (and lack of) in the applicant pool. Many applicants are embarrassingly illiterate even with a college degree.

The anti- LA crowd is part of the greater anti-intellectual atmosphere in our culture. The world needs more thinkers and as PP already mentioned, most fields now require a Master degree anyway.