So much less frenzy these days - does that mean Common Lottery is really really working?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:08:37 here. Note that I put "substandard" in quotes, meaning allegedly substandard. I agree that many of these schools are actually quite good, but as a veteran of this process, you will be unable to convince every parent (even those with kids there) that the school is fabulous. The reality is, some parents will bolt the first time they hit a "better" (again, note the quotes) in the lottery, and nothing the school does will change their mind. But perhaps some parents who get into the allegedly substandard schools (are you more comfortable if I spell it out like this?) might actually realize the school is good and stay there.

I'd be comfortable if you stop suggesting that people View their neighborhood school as a school of last resort that they should go to with the intent of leaving as soon as they can. Instead, the better advice is to check out your neighborhood school with an open mind and see if you think it would be a good for for your kid. That's the approach we took, and we have been really pleased.

I was you, saying the exact same thing, 4 years ago. What I learned: you cannot open a closed mind.

It would be really awesome if people would stop naysaying other people's optimism. We get it. You veterans who tried and failed think that the people who are trying now are naive. I will never understand why some people cannot recognize that other people have different experiences than they do and attempt to rain on those people's parades by explaining how later, the people who are optimistic about their current good experiences continuing will learn the error of their ways, just like you did.

NP and PP, you are so so right! It is astounding the number of things I've been able to achieve just by staying laser focused on seeing every obstacle as an opportunity. Not just on small, personal things, but big personal and big community changes. The "It's not going to get better and you're going to be disappointed" attitude never EVER ever led to amazing positive changes. Ever. Because those who are jaded are not still trying, so... no change unless it's by chance. Parents of young'uns, stay focused, and keep looking for ways not just to benefit from DC public education, but to be part of actually improving it - whatever that means for you.

Some of the neighborhood schools that some are describing as "allegedly substandard" now will be impossible to get into in probably a much shorter time than anyone here can imagine.

[Anonymous]

^ different people have different expectations and standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, it's like an echo from my past.

Here's the advice I wish I'd gotten at the time:

1. Hope for the best, but accept that half the parents who are currently extolling the virtues of your EOTP school will be gone next year or sooner (didn't Cooke's biggest booster bail even before the beginning of the school year this year?). Do not take this personally, but understand that people will lie to your face, take up hours of your time meeting with you to plan events, and then walk away without a second glance the minute Mundo Verde calls. They will feel bad, but they will do it.
2. In year two, celebrate the heck out of the parents who came back, and do lots of fun things with those parents and their kids. Half of them will be gone in another two years, but you can create strong bonds that will last past your current school location.
3. Celebrate the small victories: if you only raise $8,000 in year 1 for the PTA, that's $8,000 more than you would have if you hadn't worked on it.
4 Cultivate the heck out of all the parents, even those who look different, speak different languages, and spank their kids in public. These are the parents who will stick with the school so any support you can get from them will be long-lasting.
5. Push the school early and often to advertise events in every medium possible, including emails, texts, flyers posted, and overhead announcements. DO NOT accept that low income parents don't have smart phones. Cricket has made smart phones available to everyone who wants one. Instead push to have blast texts sent out.
6. Do not denigrate the efforts of those who are currently at the school. The seemingly clueless administrator at the front desk is likely the only one who knows where the speakers are for movie night. Make friends.

Is it possible that things are different than they were a few years ago? There are so many more IB families going to their neighborhood DCPS because there are no other choices. Charter schools are saturated, and it's more and more difficult to get in OOB anymore. With boundary changes and more restrictions on OOB preferences (like doing away with proximity preference), going to your neighborhood IB school may just be the new normal.

I would love to think so, I really would. But it's going to take time, and if I've learned nothing else, it's that parents will put the" interests" of their kids first. Shiny new charters will continue to open, and everyone gets in somewhere eventually if they're willing to wait / play the lottery every year. When I was involved in my grand experiment, many of those I considered dedicated told me shamefacedly that they "played the lottery for the heck of it" (see other threads) and were shocked, shocked that they got in. Despite my best efforts, none of them stayed. Many of them acknowledged later that their kids had gotten a fine education at the LRDCPS, but none of them were willing to return, even if their child was not as stimulated in the new school. Even now that I'm at another dcps that is more well-regarded, parents still leave for the shiny new charters. So I'm behind you 100%; I really am. I'm just realistic that parents who marked their neighborhood school as their last choice will. No. Stay.

Perhaps some schools will have successes - Ross and Bancroft have gone from disparaged to competitive, and even Eaton and Hearst were considered undesirable 7 years ago, so yes, things do change. Tubman and cooke weren't even considered worthy to park one's kids at for a few years when I was starting out, so even parents willing to stay through Kindergarten is likely an improvement. But those who come in thinking that all it takes is hard work and dedication are naive. You need a principal who is on board, parents who are willing to work the system AND STAY THERE when things are not always perfect and a school that can attract the new parents without alienating its base.

[Anonymous]

The regard of Eaton and Hearst actually has not changed from "undesirable" to "desirable" since 2007. The same kinds of parents are still sending their kids there now as in 2007; very little has changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, it's like an echo from my past.

Here's the advice I wish I'd gotten at the time:

1. Hope for the best, but accept that half the parents who are currently extolling the virtues of your EOTP school will be gone next year or sooner (didn't Cooke's biggest booster bail even before the beginning of the school year this year?). Do not take this personally, but understand that people will lie to your face, take up hours of your time meeting with you to plan events, and then walk away without a second glance the minute Mundo Verde calls. They will feel bad, but they will do it.
2. In year two, celebrate the heck out of the parents who came back, and do lots of fun things with those parents and their kids. Half of them will be gone in another two years, but you can create strong bonds that will last past your current school location.
3. Celebrate the small victories: if you only raise $8,000 in year 1 for the PTA, that's $8,000 more than you would have if you hadn't worked on it.
4 Cultivate the heck out of all the parents, even those who look different, speak different languages, and spank their kids in public. These are the parents who will stick with the school so any support you can get from them will be long-lasting.
5. Push the school early and often to advertise events in every medium possible, including emails, texts, flyers posted, and overhead announcements. DO NOT accept that low income parents don't have smart phones. Cricket has made smart phones available to everyone who wants one. Instead push to have blast texts sent out.
6. Do not denigrate the efforts of those who are currently at the school. The seemingly clueless administrator at the front desk is likely the only one who knows where the speakers are for movie night. Make friends.

Is it possible that things are different than they were a few years ago? There are so many more IB families going to their neighborhood DCPS because there are no other choices. Charter schools are saturated, and it's more and more difficult to get in OOB anymore. With boundary changes and more restrictions on OOB preferences (like doing away with proximity preference), going to your neighborhood IB school may just be the new normal.

I would love to think so, I really would. But it's going to take time, and if I've learned nothing else, it's that parents will put the" interests" of their kids first. Shiny new charters will continue to open, and everyone gets in somewhere eventually if they're willing to wait / play the lottery every year. When I was involved in my grand experiment, many of those I considered dedicated told me shamefacedly that they "played the lottery for the heck of it" (see other threads) and were shocked, shocked that they got in. Despite my best efforts, none of them stayed. Many of them acknowledged later that their kids had gotten a fine education at the LRDCPS, but none of them were willing to return, even if their child was not as stimulated in the new school. Even now that I'm at another dcps that is more well-regarded, parents still leave for the shiny new charters. So I'm behind you 100%; I really am. I'm just realistic that parents who marked their neighborhood school as their last choice will. No. Stay.

Perhaps some schools will have successes - Ross and Bancroft have gone from disparaged to competitive, and even Eaton and Hearst were considered undesirable 7 years ago, so yes, things do change. Tubman and cooke weren't even considered worthy to park one's kids at for a few years when I was starting out, so even parents willing to stay through Kindergarten is likely an improvement. But those who come in thinking that all it takes is hard work and dedication are naive. You need a principal who is on board, parents who are willing to work the system AND STAY THERE when things are not always perfect and a school that can attract the new parents without alienating its base.

So, you are at a more highly regarded school? In other words, you did exactly what you complain other people did. Well, I guess it wouldn't be DCUM if there wasn't a self-righteous hypocrite responding.

[Anonymous]

Honeybun, when you are the absolute last one left in the school whose kids are reading at grade level you can call me a hypocrite, and not until then. Other parents bailed first and I was left holding the bag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honeybun, when you are the absolute last one left in the school whose kids are reading at grade level you can call me a hypocrite, and not until then. Other parents bailed first and I was left holding the bag.

I have no problem with your doing what you think is right for your kids. It's your hypocrisy and self-righteous lecturing that I have a problem with. How about putting all that energy into your new school rather than lecturing those of us working to improve our neighborhood schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd venture that these "awesome" schools everyone got into as of ~2nd grade aren't really all that awesome.

+1. Unfortunately there's the upper NW WoTP public schools, SWS, and maybe Brent, and then only Yu Ying for a charter school. Otherwise, anything for ES is substandard. OK, the lottery seems to work, but to what end? We couldn't even get into substandard Stokes. Look at the test scores before you go off raving about mediocrity. If you're EoTP and not in one of the foregoing (drop Stokes), it's very likely your kid isn't being challenged. But keep drinking the Kool Aid and being thankful that I'm no longer competing with you for a substandard school.

EoTP needs an honors / gifted track program to keep and educate high SES kids, and more counselors and aides to help troubled youth. Otherwise we're just kidding ourselves with foolish gimmicks.

Explain your inclusion of Yu Ying in this list and exclusion of, let's say DC Prep from it. Why? And yes I'm well aware of differences between the schools, but if you're going on test scores, it's DC Prep all the way. So please explain what criteria you're basing your statement above on? And why Yu Ying as the only charter you include?

I'm also curious about the inclusion of SWS over every other EOTP school since its oldest class hasn't reached testing age yet. Well, I guess I know the answer, but demographics don't tell us squat about how effective the school is at teaching its students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:08:37 here. Note that I put "substandard" in quotes, meaning allegedly substandard. I agree that many of these schools are actually quite good, but as a veteran of this process, you will be unable to convince every parent (even those with kids there) that the school is fabulous. The reality is, some parents will bolt the first time they hit a "better" (again, note the quotes) in the lottery, and nothing the school does will change their mind. But perhaps some parents who get into the allegedly substandard schools (are you more comfortable if I spell it out like this?) might actually realize the school is good and stay there.

I'd be comfortable if you stop suggesting that people View their neighborhood school as a school of last resort that they should go to with the intent of leaving as soon as they can. Instead, the better advice is to check out your neighborhood school with an open mind and see if you think it would be a good for for your kid. That's the approach we took, and we have been really pleased.

I was you, saying the exact same thing, 4 years ago. What I learned: you cannot open a closed mind.

It would be really awesome if people would stop naysaying other people's optimism. We get it. You veterans who tried and failed think that the people who are trying now are naive. I will never understand why some people cannot recognize that other people have different experiences than they do and attempt to rain on those people's parades by explaining how later, the people who are optimistic about their current good experiences continuing will learn the error of their ways, just like you did.

NP and PP, you are so so right! It is astounding the number of things I've been able to achieve just by staying laser focused on seeing every obstacle as an opportunity. Not just on small, personal things, but big personal and big community changes. The "It's not going to get better and you're going to be disappointed" attitude never EVER ever led to amazing positive changes. Ever. Because those who are jaded are not still trying, so... no change unless it's by chance. Parents of young'uns, stay focused, and keep looking for ways not just to benefit from DC public education, but to be part of actually improving it - whatever that means for you.

Some of the neighborhood schools that some are describing as "allegedly substandard" now will be impossible to get into in probably a much shorter time than anyone here can imagine.

I just want to say to you guys that you are the type of people who changed other schools, and there is no evidence that you cannot change yours. I really admire you.

My kids are too old for me to be in the trenches, but perhaps some of this bitterness comes from people who tried, failed, left, and then saw others turn that particular school around. And maybe they blame themselves for not succeeding, and/or are furious at those who did. Who knows. Just remember, we are anonymous.

But the only veterans you all should listen to are the veterans who succeeded.

I admit that there has to be a confluence of forces, maybe even for some schools a "perfect storm," but if everyone had thought the way these bitter people sound no changes would have ever occurred anywhere in this city.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE NAYSAYERS

Signed,
a parent of more than two children who have attended DCPS and are now at a charter

who grew up here going to private school, living in the same neighborhood basically now that I did when I was a child, but no one in my neighborhood went to public school then............ and almost everyone goes now......... for ES, to our neighborhood ES.

I don't want to say exactly how old I am, but I was born here in the 60s and honestly never thought anything would ever change............ And to me that is so deeply ironic given what was going on in the country at the time.

So when I moved back with already fairly old children, we found things had changed. We were never the change. But Lord do I appreciate all of those who made the change, and I really have hope for our city, for our schools, DCPS and charters.....

and for all of you. If anyone had said to us, someday, almost every child who lives in your neighborhood will be attending DCPS.......... we would have laughed in their faces.

But I really believe this change is happening much more rapidly now - what I mean is that when I came back the ground had already shifted. Now it is just a question of which schools, what particular ground. But I just want to say as a very much older parent (the only young'uns I anticipate are grandchildren) that there was a time when no one believed any of this would ever happen in Washington DC.

And before anyone wants to know. I am white. My kids are not. My neighborhood is no longer one thing or another either. But that is why we had to find a place where a change had occurred, and I was so astonished but so happy to discover it had occurred basically on the same ground I grew up on. I did not want my kids to be diversity tokens (about the same number as before) at the school that when I went to it did not cost $40k - in yesterday's dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The regard of Eaton and Hearst actually has not changed from "undesirable" to "desirable" since 2007. The same kinds of parents are still sending their kids there now as in 2007; very little has changed.

Just realized this came out all wrong. Eaton and Hearst were not undesirable or whatever in 2007 but somehow hot now. That's all that was meant.

The same exact forces are at work now as then. Same migration of students from east to west, with the long-standing smattering of IB kids.

[Anonymous]

How about a moratorium on calling people "honeybun"? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honeybun, when you are the absolute last one left in the school whose kids are reading at grade level you can call me a hypocrite, and not until then. Other parents bailed first and I was left holding the bag.

I have no problem with your doing what you think is right for your kids. It's your hypocrisy and self-righteous lecturing that I have a problem with. How about putting all that energy into your new school rather than lecturing those of us working to improve our neighborhood schools?

NP here, it's not an either or situation.

My child goes to the HRCS, there are tons of volunteers there who make the place great. I volunteer at my neighborhood school hoping one day it will be better for the families who come after me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about a moratorium on calling people "honeybun"? Thanks.

Sure thing, Honeybun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honeybun, when you are the absolute last one left in the school whose kids are reading at grade level you can call me a hypocrite, and not until then. Other parents bailed first and I was left holding the bag.

I have no problem with your doing what you think is right for your kids. It's your hypocrisy and self-righteous lecturing that I have a problem with. How about putting all that energy into your new school rather than lecturing those of us working to improve our neighborhood schools?

Some "neighborhood" schools are too big to ever improve. That's why you need GT or tracks, but DCPS is too stupid to realize this. So long live substandard. Hope you're happy experimenting with your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honeybun, when you are the absolute last one left in the school whose kids are reading at grade level you can call me a hypocrite, and not until then. Other parents bailed first and I was left holding the bag.

I have no problem with your doing what you think is right for your kids. It's your hypocrisy and self-righteous lecturing that I have a problem with. How about putting all that energy into your new school rather than lecturing those of us working to improve our neighborhood schools?

Some "neighborhood" schools are too big to ever improve. That's why you need GT or tracks, but DCPS is too stupid to realize this. So long live substandard. Hope you're happy experimenting with your kids.

Hope you're happy using your children as status symbols! My kids are perfectly happy with their "substandard" education and friends.