Saint Anselm, Wash. Int'l and Holton among nation's 20 most challenging private schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If schools don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses, why would they participate in a ranking system based upon kids taking AP exams? Seems pretty straightforward.

I agree straightforward. But, is there a single private school that states in materials accessible by prospective students that they "don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses" (or words to that effect)?

Every schools is entitled to its own philosophy regarding the importance of AP prep, but they should be transparent about it. Wasn't lack of transparency Jay Matthews principal gripe about Sidwell? Anyone relying on the Washington Post Index surely thinks AP prep is important.

Yet another poster who thinks this is all about AP. Many of you are completely ignorant of the IB and AICE diplomas[b]. Private schools that offer these fare very well in this ranking. In fact, the private schools figured out long before the publics that emphasizing AP courses is counterproductive to producing a well educated individual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the Challenge Index is very accurate when it comes to the private schools because of the intense focus on AP.

There is no focus on AP tests at WIS. In fact, there are no AP classes at WIS. It's an IB school, and most students graduate with a bilingual IB diploma. Some students take AP tests on their own for a variety of reasons (and they do wonderfully, I'm told, despite never haven taken AP classes unless they came to WIS from another school), but the school has nothing to do with it.

Well, gosh, according to their website they offer AP tests in languages. I would expect the kids there to do well on language AP tests. And the challenge index specifically includes IB programs, too, since they are also explicitly college level.

WIS simply offers the AP tests in languages (usually only French and Spanish, but sometimes other languages if a student is interested) as a convenience to those who might want to add info to their college applications. They do not offer the AP course. It only offers IB classes. Students will usually take it in 10th grade, sometimes 11th grade.

Also, it has been noted on other threads about this index before, but WIS does not wish to participate with this index. The information is probably obtained through the IB Organization.

The point (which you apparently missed) is that tt's more than a little disingenuous to claim that WIS students take AP tests "on their own" when the school actually offers them. [/quote

There's really no need to get nasty and passive-aggresive. I was only pointing out that the WIS does not do any teaching in AP courses, but simply has the test administered at the school (for the convenience factor for the students) for those students interested. And it's only a few language tests, not all AP tests, since WIS is so strong in the languages. They don't offer any other AP tests. The students have to sign up for the test and it is in no way calculated in their grades or transcripts. I'm not sure how that is disingenuous...and clearly WIS doesn't "hide" this fact since they have it on their website.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: the private schools figured out long before the publics that emphasizing AP courses is counterproductive to producing a well educated individual.

stated as if it is fact. If it were indeed a fact that emphasizing AP courses is counterproductive then no one would pay attention to the Washington Post ranking - yet it seems to get quite a bit of attention for something that measures a counterproductive approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: the private schools figured out long before the publics that emphasizing AP courses is counterproductive to producing a well educated individual.

stated as if it is fact. If it were indeed a fact that emphasizing AP courses is counterproductive then no one would pay attention to the Washington Post ranking - yet it seems to get quite a bit of attention for something that measures a counterproductive approach.

You are missing the point of this pp and other posters. The ranking also looks at the number of students participating in IB and AICE programs. One could argue that many schools do well on this list for that reason versus the number of students taking AP exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If schools don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses, why would they participate in a ranking system based upon kids taking AP exams? Seems pretty straightforward.

I agree straightforward. But, is there a single private school that states in materials accessible by prospective students that they "don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses" (or words to that effect)?

Every schools is entitled to its own philosophy regarding the importance of AP prep, but they should be transparent about it. Wasn't lack of transparency Jay Matthews principal gripe about Sidwell? Anyone relying on the Washington Post Index surely thinks AP prep is important.

I know at the St. Albans open house they were quite open about their philosophy (as I recall, they have AP-designated courses in math and science and foreign language, but not generally in English or history, although kids can take the AP exams if they want). They answered questions about it when people asked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If schools don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses, why would they participate in a ranking system based upon kids taking AP exams? Seems pretty straightforward.

I agree straightforward. But, is there a single private school that states in materials accessible by prospective students that they "don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses" (or words to that effect)?

Every schools is entitled to its own philosophy regarding the importance of AP prep, but they should be transparent about it. Wasn't lack of transparency Jay Matthews principal gripe about Sidwell? Anyone relying on the Washington Post Index surely thinks AP prep is important.

I know at the St. Albans open house they were quite open about their philosophy (as I recall, they have AP-designated courses in math and science and foreign language, but not generally in English or history, although kids can take the AP exams if they want). They answered questions about it when people asked.

Interesting that the 'Cathedral Schools' have opposite approaches to AP - NCS is among the Top 50 schools in the Washington Post index ranking.

[Anonymous]

I question the accuracy of this data that says, for example, that Holton Arms has an AVERAGE ACT score of 33, an 11 person football team and a 103 year old school building. Did River Road even exist 100 years ago?

[Anonymous]

Yikes, I didn't read all of the data, but that is glaringly ridiculous. They moved to River Road in the 50"s, before that they were downtown on S Street. I feel like some kind of ranking comes out weekly, and it always highlights different schools. Everyone whose school is highlighted puts tons of credence into it, and every one whose school is omitted, rips the thing to shreds. Just a week ago there some study citing NCS as a top school in the Nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I question the accuracy of this data that says, for example, that Holton Arms has an AVERAGE ACT score of 33, an 11 person football team and a 103 year old school building. Did River Road even exist 100 years ago?

Read the table carefully, it says the school does NOT have a football team and that the school is 103 years old. I agree that an "average" ACT of 103 is extraordinary, but this Holton-Arms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whoever is worrying about the "lunch subsidies" at private schools is confused. There is no such thing as "subsidized lunch" at private schools. That's like asking what percentage of public school students are on financial aid.

It may say 0% under that column, but it's just an oddity of the way the survey was set up.

Also, just to be clear, the subsidized lunch number has no bearing on these rankings, it's just provided as a point of comparison. The Sidwells, etc. of the world don't appear on this list because they refuse to provide their data.

. Yep, no transparency.

Lack of transparency and an unwillingness to participate in these meaningless surveys aren't the same things. (I am neither a current nor former Sidwell parent).

[Anonymous]

This is a flawed list because of its focus on the AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a flawed list because of its focus on the AP.

It's an accurate list and only flawed if you disagree with the underlying premise. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but something isn't flawed just because you disagree with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think the Challenge Index is very accurate when it comes to the private schools because of the intense focus on AP.

I think some of the leading private schools think that the intense focus on the AP is counterproductive BS.

Agreed. Many private schools see the AP courses for exactly what they are-mile wide, inch deep. This is why they offer the IB program. The heavy emphasis on AP occurs more commonly in public schools. It is all about bragging rights and keeping the parents and tax payers placated.

Many public schools also offer IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If schools don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses, why would they participate in a ranking system based upon kids taking AP exams? Seems pretty straightforward.

I agree straightforward. But, is there a single private school that states in materials accessible by prospective students that they "don't believe in going in whole hog for AP courses" (or words to that effect)?

Every schools is entitled to its own philosophy regarding the importance of AP prep, but they should be transparent about it. Wasn't lack of transparency Jay Matthews principal gripe about Sidwell? Anyone relying on the Washington Post Index surely thinks AP prep is important.

I know at the St. Albans open house they were quite open about their philosophy (as I recall, they have AP-designated courses in math and science and foreign language, but not generally in English or history, although kids can take the AP exams if they want). They answered questions about it when people asked.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a flawed list because of its focus on the AP.

It's an accurate list and only flawed if you disagree with the underlying premise. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but something isn't flawed just because you disagree with it.

As more and more college deny credit for AP courses, a list based on schools that encourage students to take AP courses looks less and less relevant. Soon only second tier colleges will give AP credit.