Competitive gymnastics or ballet?

[Anonymous]

I agree with the last poster.

There are many forms of dance in that are not ballet based.

The one poster mispoke and gave incorrect information.

Ballet is not the foundation of tap.

African dance is the foundation of tap, influenced by Irish dance and evolving through vaudeville.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But ballet is where it all begins. You need a foundation in ballet before you can dance well in other disciplines and many reputable studios require such.

Really?

How about, "You need a foundation in ballet before you can dance well in other types of dance that are related to ballet"?

Why such an aggressively ignorant response? Your PP was right--ballet is the basis for all types of formal dance instruction--jazz, tap, flamenco, lyrical, character, etc. Even pro sports players are known to take ballet for strength training.

There is a lot of dance (and dance instruction) in the world that is not jazz, tap, flamenco, lyrical, character, etc.

[Anonymous]

Poster with serious ballet dancer from above. I agree wholeheartedly with the later post about letting her choose the form and style she wants - there's no forcing a kid to do ballet and there are many options and forms of dance available to her if she really likes it. Just do your research before you pick a competition or "conservatory" ballet route if that's what's driving her. There is some amazing tap available in this area if she ends up liking that form.

[Anonymous]

I think it will be clear which she likes better if you let her try both - ballet and gymnastics favor very different body types. Perhaps ballet has changed some, but when I was a child, they looked for kids with long legs relative to the rest of their body and definitely lean. This was my body type and I moved through the levels pretty quickly. For gymnastics, you need an athletic body with good leg and arm strength plus flexibility. I lacked the upper body strength for gymnastics though I thought it was fun.

Gymnastics seems to be much more time consuming. I have two friends whose daughters are involved in the same competitive program in our area. They do about 9 to 12 hours a week during the school year, and 20 hours a week during the summer. They are good but not olympic caliber 8 and 9 year olds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. See Children of Theatre Street. You must start young in order to perfect the turnout from the hips while the bones are still growing and are pliable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7UP9gXHt4

Classical ballet does not start until around age eight.

Call any conservatory in this country and they will tell you the exact same thing.

Auditions for the Vaganova School (the setting for the 1970s file The Children of Theater Street) have long been held at age 9 or 10, with students beginning in the school around age 10. Some students have "preparatory" classes beforehand, but the Vaganova syllabus is designed to begin around 10--though, of course, with "ideal" bodies.

So, back to OP's question.
--Injuries and eating disorders and the rest can occur in ballet, gymnastics, and any other physical activities.
--I don't think there are reliable statistics on the incidence of eating disorders and injuries in various activities.
--Your dd will likely "self-select" anyway based on what's to her taste.
--Regardless of the activity, it seems to me that your responsibility as a parent is to always focus on what's in her interest--no pressure to compete or perform with injuries, a healthy attitude toward food and weight, etc.
--For dance, the significant costume expenses are at performance and competition-focused schools, but not at ballet-focused schools.
--Ballet-focused schools will have only "movement" or pre-ballet for her age group.

But those 3,000 competitors, out of whom they will select 50, are already hard in training in their home towns. Seriously, you have to mold the ideal ballet body much earlier. I'm not talking about pointe. I'm talking about regular pre-ballet dance, posture and movement classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can speak from the ballet side. DD is now in her mid teens and a serious student of it. I agree with many of the statements here. Eating disorders can occur in any high level of sport/dance. It has more to do with wanting to be in control I think although watching yourself in the mirror incessantly with ballet probably could be a part of it for some too.

Ballet is all about corrections and typically dancers receive few compliments and they are hard earned. It is best to have a thick skin as a dancer. Ballet engages many senses and most dancers are extremely intelligent - I haven't figured out if they started out that way and are attracted to the mind/body challenge or the art form develops it - probably a bit of both.

It is an amazing, rich, historical, oral dance tradition but if I had the choice I would have steered DD away - we had no idea what it entailed. Check out Ballet Talk for Dancers for more information before you encourage your DD in it.

Becoming a professional is honestly as or more difficult than becoming an Olympian and the pay if any is abysmal and not enough to support oneself. However, if your DD, like ours, just has to do it, then you may choose to let her follow her passion. At the upper levels, the child has to love it or they will leave it - there's no way a parent could force their DC to work so hard at something.

She will come away with musicality, artistry, an amazingly strong, flexible yet controlled body, and a sharp mind with laser focus. She will be able to accept criticism readily and apply corrections to her work immediately. She will be amazingly organized and very hard working. She will also learn some French. Many of these are the traits any high level athlete has (except the artistry and musicality and French). They are held to very high standards at all times and are expected to become very independent by the time they head away for summer training. They are not hand held at any point and become "adults" in many ways by the time they are 14 and traveling alone, perhaps preparing their own meals, getting from point A to B on their own in large urban areas using public transit with tons of luggage.

Both gymnastics and ballet will eventually take up all of your daughter's free time - gymnasts peak about 5-7 years earlier than ballet dancers though so a gymnast puts in more hours at a younger age.

I would say you let your DD do both until age 8 and see if she has a preference for either. Plenty of gymnasts switch to ballet by 12 but if your child is too short, broad and muscular, I wouldn't encourage her to switch. Ballet has become a bit more forgiving about body types but not much, bu also a child's body changes so much before that dancer is ready for a professional career at 17-21.

With ballet be prepared for hours of driving, not seeing your child except at breakfast and before bed, weekends and evenings full of rehearsals, paying/sending them away for 4-8 weeks of intensive daily training in the summer, no holiday travel if doing Nutcracker, and $$$$$ by early teens.

Also, find the best training possible near your house and make sure it's not a competition studio. I wouldn't recommend pursuing one of the biggest names in DC - very few children move past the lower school there. If you are in MD, there are some very good options as well as out by Reston and in Arlington/Alexandria. By age 13, serious training during the summers, whether local or far away is necessary - big name schools in area are fine for summer intensive training.

Best of luck - ballet is not for the faint of heart parent or one without the willingness to sacrifice family activities/closeness, money or their own personal time to let their child follow a passion. Finally, as noted above, if your child doesn't have a fair amount of natural turnout, I wouldn't pursue ballet - it just won't work in the long run.

NP here--PP, thank you for this thoughtful posting! I have a DD doing ballet (age 9) and she is fine but basically middle of the pack--better than some, not as good as others--and I've been kind of wondering what the benefits of ballet might be long-term, since she will never do it at a high level. Now I know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can speak from the ballet side. DD is now in her mid teens and a serious student of it. I agree with many of the statements here. Eating disorders can occur in any high level of sport/dance. It has more to do with wanting to be in control I think although watching yourself in the mirror incessantly with ballet probably could be a part of it for some too.

Ballet is all about corrections and typically dancers receive few compliments and they are hard earned. It is best to have a thick skin as a dancer. Ballet engages many senses and most dancers are extremely intelligent - I haven't figured out if they started out that way and are attracted to the mind/body challenge or the art form develops it - probably a bit of both.

It is an amazing, rich, historical, oral dance tradition but if I had the choice I would have steered DD away - we had no idea what it entailed. Check out Ballet Talk for Dancers for more information before you encourage your DD in it.

Becoming a professional is honestly as or more difficult than becoming an Olympian and the pay if any is abysmal and not enough to support oneself. However, if your DD, like ours, just has to do it, then you may choose to let her follow her passion. At the upper levels, the child has to love it or they will leave it - there's no way a parent could force their DC to work so hard at something.

She will come away with musicality, artistry, an amazingly strong, flexible yet controlled body, and a sharp mind with laser focus. She will be able to accept criticism readily and apply corrections to her work immediately. She will be amazingly organized and very hard working. She will also learn some French. Many of these are the traits any high level athlete has (except the artistry and musicality and French). They are held to very high standards at all times and are expected to become very independent by the time they head away for summer training. They are not hand held at any point and become "adults" in many ways by the time they are 14 and traveling alone, perhaps preparing their own meals, getting from point A to B on their own in large urban areas using public transit with tons of luggage.

Both gymnastics and ballet will eventually take up all of your daughter's free time - gymnasts peak about 5-7 years earlier than ballet dancers though so a gymnast puts in more hours at a younger age.

I would say you let your DD do both until age 8 and see if she has a preference for either. Plenty of gymnasts switch to ballet by 12 but if your child is too short, broad and muscular, I wouldn't encourage her to switch. Ballet has become a bit more forgiving about body types but not much, bu also a child's body changes so much before that dancer is ready for a professional career at 17-21.

With ballet be prepared for hours of driving, not seeing your child except at breakfast and before bed, weekends and evenings full of rehearsals, paying/sending them away for 4-8 weeks of intensive daily training in the summer, no holiday travel if doing Nutcracker, and $$$$$ by early teens.

Also, find the best training possible near your house and make sure it's not a competition studio. I wouldn't recommend pursuing one of the biggest names in DC - very few children move past the lower school there. If you are in MD, there are some very good options as well as out by Reston and in Arlington/Alexandria. By age 13, serious training during the summers, whether local or far away is necessary - big name schools in area are fine for summer intensive training.

Best of luck - ballet is not for the faint of heart parent or one without the willingness to sacrifice family activities/closeness, money or their own personal time to let their child follow a passion. Finally, as noted above, if your child doesn't have a fair amount of natural turnout, I wouldn't pursue ballet - it just won't work in the long run.

Hi, I have been lurking on this thread and I hope this isn't too off-topic but this (in bold above) concerns me. DD is seven and just about to begin level "1A" at Washington School of Ballet. (She has been there two years in pre-ballet.) We selected WSB because we though it would give the best training and it has the added benefit of being extremely convenient to us, location-wise. But is it true that very few students move past the lower levels? Also, what is meant by the lower-levels (I never did ballet)? Does that mean before they are on pointe? I would hate for DD to be asked to leave. Could someone with experience at WSB please clarify? And would it be worth switching for this reason even though WSB is near our house? TIA.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

Thank you all so much for your responses!

Basically DD loves watching ballets, and wants to move like a ballerina. I think she prefers that to gym because of the classical music element.

So we are heading towards ballet, I can't sign her up for both, not at the same time at least. Right now I am considering Maryland Youth Ballet. Is this what PP with a serious ballet dancer DD means by one of the "biggest names"? They seemed quite friendly and unassuming.

Thank you again.

[Anonymous]

Ballet poster here - if MYB works for you - as in it is close to where you live - you are very lucky! It is an excellent studio. Go for it and just take it year by year to see if she remains interested in the challenge.

My other tips: Let her dance along to ballets at home without regard to her form - ie no corrections ever from you. The time commitment generally ramps up around age 11-13 depending on the studio and many change direction when they enter high school are expected to dance 5-6 days a week. Use Goldstar to get low priced tickets to Kennedy Center ballets if she is interested. You can get Washington Ballet tickets and WB Nutcracker tix on Goldstar as well for much less.

[Anonymous]

To posters asking about WSB, I am the long ballet poster with teen dancer who is actually at WBS now. DD started at a local studio near our house because she was crazy for ballet. Little did we know how much she would want to do it or how great the teaching was she received. She ended up deciding to try WSB as she entered her teens and figured that is where she needed to be in her training. Truth be told we found out that only say 1-2 kids per year are invited into the pre pro track. I consider levels 1-7 the lower school. I do not know if they formally cut students from year to year but it does happen at big name schools.

However, a good way to look at it is that if your child is ever cut, but still has passion for the art, then she hasn't found her dance home yet. There is always a studio that will be a match for a passionate dancer. As parents we have to educate ourselves on the realities of dance particularly as our dancers get older and it becomes all-consuming for them, us, our cars and our pocketbooks!

I say do not change your DD if it is close and she is enjoying it. The training there is fine but know that very, very few are ever chosen from the school for the pre-pro program, which is mainly Asians, some intl (Latino/Russian etc) and some hand picked dancers from other areas of the US and even the local DC area. There are actually many excellent smaller studios that offer high level training and smaller classes than WSB.


Regarding the "middle of the pack dancer" - this is nothing to be concerned about ever. All kids grow, learn, and hit puberty at different rates. Most dancers have at least 1 year of difficult dancing, and also have to retrain their bodies to be flexible etc at various points after growth spurts. It's really a long, slow process that takes many years. Many a professional say in interviews that they were never the "favored" one but through hard work and never giving up they acheived their goal. There will be always be prodigies and favored ones but many don't end up pushing themselves enough with training and eventually are overtaken by those middle of the road dancers.

Finally, we have been at several schools and WSB has definitely been the worst in terms of playing favorites and it's not always about the dancer's abilities. Dancers need to learn to concern themselves with their training and not what's going on with others which can be a tough lesson to learn but ultimately is probably quite valuable later in life.

Ballet is something I never had much interest in prior to having a dancing DC but now I have such respect for many aspects of it - the history, the training, the oral traditions, the classical music, the way these kids memorize different combinations every day, the continuity through the years in the basic technique class and last but not least the amazing bodies I see at the adult classes of the much older women (70s?) who continue to dance throughout their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. See Children of Theatre Street. You must start young in order to perfect the turnout from the hips while the bones are still growing and are pliable. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YU7UP9gXHt4

Classical ballet does not start until around age eight.

Call any conservatory in this country and they will tell you the exact same thing.

Auditions for the Vaganova School (the setting for the 1970s file The Children of Theater Street) have long been held at age 9 or 10, with students beginning in the school around age 10. Some students have "preparatory" classes beforehand, but the Vaganova syllabus is designed to begin around 10--though, of course, with "ideal" bodies.

So, back to OP's question.
--Injuries and eating disorders and the rest can occur in ballet, gymnastics, and any other physical activities.
--I don't think there are reliable statistics on the incidence of eating disorders and injuries in various activities.
--Your dd will likely "self-select" anyway based on what's to her taste.
--Regardless of the activity, it seems to me that your responsibility as a parent is to always focus on what's in her interest--no pressure to compete or perform with injuries, a healthy attitude toward food and weight, etc.
--For dance, the significant costume expenses are at performance and competition-focused schools, but not at ballet-focused schools.
--Ballet-focused schools will have only "movement" or pre-ballet for her age group.

But those 3,000 competitors, out of whom they will select 50, are already hard in training in their home towns. Seriously, you have to mold the ideal ballet body much earlier. I'm not talking about pointe. I'm talking about regular pre-ballet dance, posture and movement classes.

Agree, Wash. Ballet starts interviewing students as young as four. The SAB (School of American Ballet started by Balanchine - feeder into the NYCB) starts at five and six.

[Anonymous]

Wow. I'm not going my DD to ever do ballet or gymnastics. They both seem potentially dangerous and a complete waste of time. Thanks for the info!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I'm not going my DD to ever do ballet or gymnastics. They both seem potentially dangerous and a complete waste of time. Thanks for the info!

That is too bad that you will limit your child in such a way.

Just as with any sport, there is a broad range of programs available, from the fun recreational community program to very serious programs for athletes who have serious goals in mind.

There are crazy parents and teachers in dance and gymnastics, just as there are crazy parents and coaches in soccer or swimming or softball. No more, no less.

There are benefits and problems with dance and gymnastics, just as there are problems and benefits to evry other sport out there.

If you choose carefully and in the best interest of your child, not your goals, then the benefits of dance and gymnastics is immeasureble and applicable to future success in every area of the child's life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband was involved in competitive gymnastics from a young age through high school. The strain placed on his body back then has been causing him increasing pain as he has gotten older. Our daughter seems to have an aptitude for it, but neither of us want to encourage her to go down that path. It just isn't worth it.

+ 1. Ex-gymnast and ballet dancer. Both are so hard on the body.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But ballet is where it all begins. You need a foundation in ballet before you can dance well in other disciplines and many reputable studios require such.

Really?

How about, "You need a foundation in ballet before you can dance well in other types of dance that are related to ballet"?

Well, I found that to be quite true. I studied ballet as a child and adolescent but found that the ballet immediately morphed into modern dance and jazz dance. I just had to remember to keep the knee bent "in" as opposed to "out" (ballet) for jazz. Then I competed for our high school gymnastics team with no other background than the ballet. Did some tap as well. Ballroom. So, yes, I think ballet is a fine foundation for a number of other forms of dance or sport. Most competitive gymnasts and ice skaters are required to take outside ballet classes for the grace and poise.

[Anonymous]

Read the book Astonish Me about behind the scenes in the ballet world and then you will pick gymnastics.