DCPS Lottery Consultant?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain what you mean by this?

The algorhythm thing was an honest but bad mistake on my part. I really thought I understood what was told to me and that I had clarified it sufficiently. I was wrong. I announced to everyone via e-mail and FB that I was wrong before I ever even told anyone the erroneous version. Like, I had the meeting on a Mon/Tues, posted/e-mailed on Tues/Wed, and then corrected my error on Thurs or something like that. I then explained it the way it is. The truth is there is no gaming the system and there is no magic way to get into a school. There is, however, a good approach to figuring out what works.

Why would you announce to everyone that you were wrong if they didn't know that you'd been wrong?

Because she's honest? Frankly, any good consultant should do exactly this - correct a mistake. Newspapers do it all the time when they make corrections to their articles. The scientific method depends on it.

Yes, because newspapers will be correcting something that is PUBLISHED - an error that their readers are aware of. If she "never even told anyone the erroneous version" there is nothing to correct. How do you not understand that?

Just to be clear, it's not like she had an initial analysis and didn't tell anyone. She had an initial analysis and emailed it out to all her clients. If they had acted on her initial analysis, they would have strategically ordered. She had no choice and obviously did the right thing to correct herself to the people she told this to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend texted me about this thread. I absolutely hate having to "argue" with people so I'll just state some facts and then let everyone have their own, completely valid, opinions.

I have lived IB for Peabody-Watkins-Stuart-Hobson most of the time since high school. Total coincidence that I moved to different places on the Hill IB for the same school. I went to Wilson and Duke Ellington School of the Arts (at the same time). DC1 did 2 years at a private preschool because we didn't get into public (there was little back then and we got shut out). DC1 and DC2 then were at Maury for 3 years and then switched to Brent. DC2 just finished 4th year at Brent. DC1 is at a special private school for kids with SN. No one ever attended BASIS.

I have taught different ages of kids in schools and in more informal environments (camps, afterschool) for around 17 years. I worked in private school admissions for almost a decade. I visited a lot of schools and just took an interest in different approaches. I left admissions due to DC1's SN -- I needed more time for the family. I found myself, like many of you, answering tons of questions about schools. I offered up a free lecture on MOTH and there were around 65 attendees. I had another which was also super well-attended. I had some more and started charging money ($10 then $25 now $35 for single, $55 for couple). I charge in advance because I often have a waiting list and hate to have to turn people away. I am also often paying for a space and/or a babysitter or something, like any working parent, and can't afford to have a bunch of no-shows. No one has ever asked for money back or seemed displeased, but I would hope people would express concerns if they had them.

Plenty of people follow up with a private consult after a lecture so I assume those people were happy. The price of the lecture is subtracted from the consult so no one ever feels I was trying to withhold information to make someone need a private consult. Some people just need more specialized information.

I had intended to do private school consulting and was investigating that plan when the lectures began. I was also looking into helping others with SN schools. The public/charter thing just took off. I worked with about 400 families in 2013 according to my tax numbers.

I visit tons of schools. I could not possibly visit enough schools. I admit it freely. I am sometimes late for Open Houses, though technically an OH is supposed to be open, not have a specific start time. Just a pet peeve! Anyway, I can think of 3 this past year when I was "late," both in NE, and they were all 3 because I was doing 2 visits in 1 morning. So I had been at another OH already. Sometimes these things can't be avoided. I do know a lot more about schools on the Hill because that's where I live, but I am working on other areas.

I find out information from clients, friends, parents on MoTH, yes, DCUM, and just paying a whole lot of attention when people are talking about schools. I ask people questions when I am sitting next to them. It's my interest and my ears just perk up. I don't generally share things that I haven't heard from multiple people. I know very well from being in private school admissions that disgruntled parents will trash a school and there are different sides to every story. I try really hard to be positive about almost all schools, many about which people on here have little good to say. I strongly encourage people to visit their IB school and give it a fresh eye, not just listen to neighbors who might have had outdated negative experiences. We started at Maury when us parents would organize an OH and be thrilled that 20 people attended. It's a great feeling to participate in a school that started with some great bones and got even better.

I posted on my FB page because I don't know how the stars work. I had 1, 2, 3 stars from people I'd never met or even e-mailed with. Just seems odd, but it is what it is.

The algorhythm thing was an honest but bad mistake on my part. I really thought I understood what was told to me and that I had clarified it sufficiently. I was wrong. I announced to everyone via e-mail and FB that I was wrong before I ever even told anyone the erroneous version. Like, I had the meeting on a Mon/Tues, posted/e-mailed on Tues/Wed, and then corrected my error on Thurs or something like that. I then explained it the way it is. The truth is there is no gaming the system and there is no magic way to get into a school. There is, however, a good approach to figuring out what works.

Absolutely most parents could do this 100% by themselves via the methods mentioned above. I receive plenty of e-mails from people in which I simply answer a question or 2 and send them on their way. Lots of people find the introductory lecture helpful. Most attendees have 2-3 year olds, may be new to the area or have babies too or are otherwise super busy. They don't understand how the system works, often down to things like not knowing charters aren't part of DCPS, are free, that kind of thing. Lots of people hear about some great schools and have a lottery list like: Brent, Peabody, Maury, SWS, and 2R when the are OOB/not sibs for all. I'm just giving examples. Absolutely people can get up to speed without me. Some people choose to take a short cut. I aim to help people get the basics down and learn about schools both in their immediate world and maybe near work or somewhere else that could be a possibility. I try to help people narrow down their visit lists so they aren't spending 2 hours visiting a school that they couldn't possibly get into.

I like the cleaning lady analogy. I can clean my own house. I usually do. Sometimes I just have to turn for help because I would rather spend the time doing something else.

I think of my consults largely as an organizational session. A lot of people start out really not understanding the system and a lot of people are really far along in the search. I always feel I have plenty to give to either. A lot of people just want to talk through the logistics, the future possibilities, what might be right for their family. The consults are pretty intimate sessions, I'm sitting right there with the couple (or occasionally one parent). I would hope that I would sense that someone wasn't finding it useful and/or that they would express that. Certainly sometimes I sense that people are getting more out of it than others. I get a whole lot of e-mails from people thanking me for my help, so I'll have to let that be my guide. I do welcome people to give me constructive criticism, but a public forum isn't a useful way to do that. Anonymous rarely works well.

There is no way to game the system. It would be too much to list all the ways in which I help guide people because inevitably I will leave something out, but in general I talk to people about their IB schools, interests, logistics, need for before/after care, tolerance for "up-and-coming" vs. "successful," how to list schools so that the list makes sense (see putting Brent 1st when you are OOB for PK3). That kind of thing. We talk a lot about wait lists, feeder patterns, future possibilities. I'm am quite sure a whole lot of you could do research and strike out on your own. This happens to work well for my personality, my family needs, and, really, I just stumbled into it. I do also do what I had thought I would do, SN and private, but this is the greater part of the business.

I tell people I know little about daycares and that they generally don't need help with pre-preschool programs -- just ask on your local listserve. I help with middle and high school, but usually people have things figured out by then. A lot of that help is getting the bigger picture or people moving in from out of town/country.

I am a little kooky, I talk too much, I'm opinionated (but what would be the point if I were completely without opinion?). I talk about my kids, I talk about experiences in the classroom and what a successful classroom looks like. I can never remember anyone's name to put to a face, but I will remember that you e-mailed me and what you needed.

I make a reasonable amount of money doing this, seeing a need (for some, others don't have the same need), having flexibility for my kids' needs. I don't make a small fraction of what I see people on here make, not even close, and my husband is a teacher. So I'm not laughing all the way to the bank, but it works for us. I do plenty of pro bono or deeply discounted work and try to work with families to make help possible. I answer dozens of e-mails for free. I do what I can to provide a service. If YOU feel that I provided it badly to YOU, please e-mail me and we will see what we can work out. If you don't feel that my services are necessary for your family, no problem. I totally get that. I find I don't really market (FB page, website, a few ads a year) because people who need the help ask a friend or something and find their way to me. It seems to work.

I am attending the Independent Educational Consultants' Association summer seminar in a few weeks to better my business practice and also to learn what others are doing in the field. I am very excited. I deeply hope that DC's system will get to the point where every kid is educated in a school that works for them, their family, regardless of income, neighborhood, luck, SN or any other factor. I would be absolutely thrilled to be put out of business in that manner. It's not a reality right now, but if it ever is, I will happily hang up my hat and go back into the classroom or something. Right now I'm too busy fighting for an appropriate education for my child so this provides needed balance.

I'm just a normal person who provides a service. I understand your right to discuss my services on DCUM, but I do ask that you remember that I'm just a Mom trying to help out other parents and make a little living while doing it. If you don't need my services, great! Some do, some don't and that works for all of us, I hope.

Best,

E.V. Downey (I write too much too)

You say you're kooky; I say you're genuine.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain what you mean by this?

The algorhythm thing was an honest but bad mistake on my part. I really thought I understood what was told to me and that I had clarified it sufficiently. I was wrong. I announced to everyone via e-mail and FB that I was wrong before I ever even told anyone the erroneous version. Like, I had the meeting on a Mon/Tues, posted/e-mailed on Tues/Wed, and then corrected my error on Thurs or something like that. I then explained it the way it is. The truth is there is no gaming the system and there is no magic way to get into a school. There is, however, a good approach to figuring out what works.

Why would you announce to everyone that you were wrong if they didn't know that you'd been wrong?

Because she's honest? Frankly, any good consultant should do exactly this - correct a mistake. Newspapers do it all the time when they make corrections to their articles. The scientific method depends on it.

Yes, because newspapers will be correcting something that is PUBLISHED - an error that their readers are aware of. If she "never even told anyone the erroneous version" there is nothing to correct. How do you not understand that?

Just to be clear, it's not like she had an initial analysis and didn't tell anyone. She had an initial analysis and emailed it out to all her clients. If they had acted on her initial analysis, they would have strategically ordered. She had no choice and obviously did the right thing to correct herself to the people she told this to.

Just to be clear, you are completely missing the point. The reason clarification was requested was because SHE ORIGINALLY SAID THAT SHE DIDN'T SHARE THE ERRONEOUS INFORMATION. Read what she originally wrote (it's just above). It was completely reasonable to ask why she would say that. Her original description MADE NO SENSE.

[Anonymous]

She says she met with the lottery people on Mon/Tues, emailed people the wrong Info on Tues/Wed, and corrected herself of Thurs after getting clarification. She definitely sent out misinformation because I was on the email and was rejiggering my picks based on the misinformation (which implied that you should strategically order), and then I had to go back to the original order I had based in the new information she clarified with the following day. She meant that she didn't give out the wrong info to new clients in new sessions; she had already informed old clients (who had already attended an info session) via email, however.

[Anonymous]

My issue with EV Downey is that she has done Ludlow-Taylor a huge, huge disservice over the past 5 years -- even more so than this forum. She is a hater and has used her soapbox to bring down the school's reputation in the neighborhood. So Principal Cobbs isn't that great at PR, warm-fuzzies, whatever -- everyone knows that. But in countless talks with neighborhood families,sDowney has consistently discounted any good experience other parents have had at the school, based strictly on her SN son's negative experience with the principal quite a few years ago. I have a dog in this fight because my kids go to LT, and because we are an IB family trying to make our neighborhood school work for us -- and so far, we've been wonderfully repaid for our commitment. But I have had at least a half-dozen parents look at me with shock when I say that we are happy at LT, and more often than not it's because EV Downey (who I have never laid eyes on inside the school until the recent principal selection meeting) has warned them off the school. To me, this is letting personal experience cloud objective reality, and I think to become a really useful consultant she needs to get past those biases -- and not just when it comes to LT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My issue with EV Downey is that she has done Ludlow-Taylor a huge, huge disservice over the past 5 years -- even more so than this forum. She is a hater and has used her soapbox to bring down the school's reputation in the neighborhood..

Hee. The school's reputation has been in the crapper for the 20 years I've lived in-boundary for Ludlow-Taylor. Nice try though, pointing the finger at a school consultant. Hope it make you feel better for sending your child there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My issue with EV Downey is that she has done Ludlow-Taylor a huge, huge disservice over the past 5 years -- even more so than this forum. She is a hater and has used her soapbox to bring down the school's reputation in the neighborhood. So Principal Cobbs isn't that great at PR, warm-fuzzies, whatever -- everyone knows that. But in countless talks with neighborhood families,sDowney has consistently discounted any good experience other parents have had at the school, based strictly on her SN son's negative experience with the principal quite a few years ago. I have a dog in this fight because my kids go to LT, and because we are an IB family trying to make our neighborhood school work for us -- and so far, we've been wonderfully repaid for our commitment. But I have had at least a half-dozen parents look at me with shock when I say that we are happy at LT, and more often than not it's because EV Downey (who I have never laid eyes on inside the school until the recent principal selection meeting) has warned them off the school. To me, this is letting personal experience cloud objective reality, and I think to become a really useful consultant she needs to get past those biases -- and not just when it comes to LT.

No dog in the LT fight as we are not in-bounds for it, but I have friends who are and I've heard stories from them about the unwelcoming environment in the school, which they did not pick from any EV Downey comments but from their dealings with Principal Cobb and visits in the school.

Most people do not hire EV Downey or any other consultant. So the fact that most of the LT neighborhood avoided that school like a plague is unlikely to have anything to do with her and everything with the school itself.

[Anonymous]

Obviously Downey is not the only factor in the school's reputation, but she has certainly not helped expedite its turnaround within the neighborhood, as I think she herself would openly admit. I hope with the new principal coming on board, Downey will be able to look at LT more objectively -- as it is now, not as it was 20 or even 5 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Part of what I valued about our conversations with EV, is that she has walked a large number of families through the lottery process. She gave us good info about the likelihood of getting in at various schools. Some of what she shares is 2nd hand info from other parents or her own experiences with various schools, and you need to weigh that as one person or a few people's experiences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously Downey is not the only factor in the school's reputation, but she has certainly not helped expedite its turnaround within the neighborhood, as I think she herself would openly admit. I hope with the new principal coming on board, Downey will be able to look at LT more objectively -- as it is now, not as it was 20 or even 5 years ago.

This is a bizarre statement. The Ludlow-Taylor threads tell their own story of families who were turned off by the former principal, the years of erase-to-the-top, and the near-coup of the PTA (not quite as bad as Payne but uncomfortable) a few years back and the bleeding off of IB families after PK4 until last year or this. That makes EV's information on the school pretty current based on the prevailing wisdom. It is arguable that this is more lagging information based on the school's trajectory that some folks are hoping for, but it is not unrealistic given the history.

[Anonymous]

Jeff - I have not previously posted on this thread, but this significant amount of personal information about EV and her son seems totally inappropriate to me. She's not a public figure and this seems really unfair and icky. Can you shut this down or at least remove the references to her children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jeff - I have not previously posted on this thread, but this significant amount of personal information about EV and her son seems totally inappropriate to me. She's not a public figure and this seems really unfair and icky. Can you shut this down or at least remove the references to her children?

There wasn't any bad talking about her son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She says she met with the lottery people on Mon/Tues, emailed people the wrong Info on Tues/Wed, and corrected herself of Thurs after getting clarification. She definitely sent out misinformation because I was on the email and was rejiggering my picks based on the misinformation (which implied that you should strategically order), and then I had to go back to the original order I had based in the new information she clarified with the following day. She meant that she didn't give out the wrong info to new clients in new sessions; she had already informed old clients (who had already attended an info session) via email, however.

Just read what she wrote yesterday. She clearly not only made the mistake in the first place, but also wrote something that was both wrong and didn't make any sense. She said that she DID NOT SHARE THE ERRONEOUS INFORMATION. She was wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jeff - I have not previously posted on this thread, but this significant amount of personal information about EV and her son seems totally inappropriate to me. She's not a public figure and this seems really unfair and icky. Can you shut this down or at least remove the references to her children?

There wasn't any bad talking about her son.

She herself posted lots of info about her family and clarified whatever misinformation had been posted.

[Anonymous]

My family has worked with EV twice. The first time was when our child was born and we were considering where to buy a home. The second time was when we were applying to preschool, after we had attended about 20 open houses, identified schools that we were interested in, and just needed a sounding board for ranking the schools.

We were one of many OOB families W/O sibling who put Brent as #1 on our list because we believed that we should rank schools ONLY according to preference. We did not consider admissions data from previous years that showed the number of IB families (even with sibling) who had been shut out of Brent preschool. EV informed me that if we kept Brent as our #1 choice, we would be essentially throwing out the slot (and possibly reducing our chances at another school, which someone else listed as #1 if they had a better lottery number). I listened to EV and removed Brent altogether, moving Inspired Teaching (initially our second choice) to #1. We are now at Inspired Teaching and very, very, very glad for the advice that we received.

For us, the small fee paid for the mini-session to help with the order of the schools was money well spent.