"The current system is unsustainable." Really?

[Anonymous]

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The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

I made no mention of "wonderful school reform" - but of parents improving assigned neighborhood school -- which is different. By the way, DC is still not on the brink of city-wide success, despite charters, attempts at school reform and parents staying to improve neighborhood schools.

Right now, reading DCUM at least, parents don't want an all charter system and don't want to send their kids to low-scoring neighborhood schools. They want the neighborhood schools to be good before sending their kids to them but know the schools only become good when a critical mass of kids their like their kids are already in them. The only acceptable schools are ones that are already overcrowded in a part of town most parents don't live in. They clamor to get their kids into those schools, while expressing disdain for the IB families and the long commute. They don't like the chance aspect of charters and don't trust DCPS to make their neighborhood schools acceptable.

They are between a rock and a hard place that is in some part of their own making. They are educated people who care greatly about their kids. I hope they can find a way out of this.

Nope. DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't. Looks like you have a vested interest in pushing the blame where it doesn't belong.

I am not the PP. The educated parents in gentrifying neighborhoods either knew the schools were crappy or were willfully ignorant. I think dcps has an obligation to improve the schools and I think that gentrification is a large part of what is making such improvement possible in many places. That said, I disagree that parents that had choices are blameless in finding themselves stuck without good options. This sentiment does not apply to families whose homes are being moved out of the boundaries for high performing schools to failing schools.

I'm an educated parent. I've lived in my neighborhood in one form or another since the 90s when I was in my 20s. So basically I should move out of the city because I'm an educated parent and leave the city schools for the "uneducated parents"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The crisis is that with the OOB feeder system, there's no place to put the ever-growing population of students who all have rights to attend the same TWO schools.

This only applies to Deal, Wilson and JKLMM schools, 5 elementary and one middle and one high school. The rest of DCPS are underenrolled with very few exceptions like Ross.

Would it be fair to say that there are two crises - an overcrowding crisis in the schools you list, plus a quality crisis elsewhere - and that this plan attempts to address those two crises, and other problems that do not rise to the leve of crisis, at the same time?

Exactly. The first is a new problem reflecting improving schools, and the second is an old problem that we should have been addressing for years.

and I would go further to say charters are a mixed blessing in that they provided relief for some from poor quality schools and really stalled improvement of other schools that could have been just as good as the charter schools that parents fled to, if parents had stayed to improve their assigned neighborhood school

Not sure why you think Charters have somehow stalled wonderful school reform... It's not like DCPS was previously on the brink of city-wide success.

I made no mention of "wonderful school reform" - but of parents improving assigned neighborhood school -- which is different. By the way, DC is still not on the brink of city-wide success, despite charters, attempts at school reform and parents staying to improve neighborhood schools.

Right now, reading DCUM at least, parents don't want an all charter system and don't want to send their kids to low-scoring neighborhood schools. They want the neighborhood schools to be good before sending their kids to them but know the schools only become good when a critical mass of kids their like their kids are already in them. The only acceptable schools are ones that are already overcrowded in a part of town most parents don't live in. They clamor to get their kids into those schools, while expressing disdain for the IB families and the long commute. They don't like the chance aspect of charters and don't trust DCPS to make their neighborhood schools acceptable.

They are between a rock and a hard place that is in some part of their own making. They are educated people who care greatly about their kids. I hope they can find a way out of this.

Nope. DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't. Looks like you have a vested interest in pushing the blame where it doesn't belong.

I am not the PP. The educated parents in gentrifying neighborhoods either knew the schools were crappy or were willfully ignorant. I think dcps has an obligation to improve the schools and I think that gentrification is a large part of what is making such improvement possible in many places. That said, I disagree that parents that had choices are blameless in finding themselves stuck without good options. This sentiment does not apply to families whose homes are being moved out of the boundaries for high performing schools to failing schools.

I'm an educated parent. I've lived in my neighborhood in one form or another since the 90s when I was in my 20s. So basically I should move out of the city because I'm an educated parent and leave the city schools for the "uneducated parents"

Of course not. Thanks for clarifying how important it is to improve DC PS for all.

[Anonymous]

I'm an educated parent in Ward 5 working at a nonprofit, which is contributing to this city. I can't afford Ward 3. Yet somehow I am less worthy? Don't think so. The District needs to figure out how to get us in the system. They need families that are in the middle of the income scale not just the upper income folks and the FARM eligible. We are at a charter now.

[Anonymous]

It is not a matter of being less worthy, it is a matter of knowing what the facts on the ground are. I think it is amazing/great/fabulous/understandable/whatever that the city is being gentrified and families are staying and revitalizing the city in many ways. The facts are that most schools outside wards 2, 3 and 4 with a few exceptions have long been abysmal failures, similar to many urban areas outside DC. This is not solely the result of failed dcps policies and this is information that is widely available. Of course the city needs to improve the schools for all, but that is a long term task at this point. The reason that some dcps schools have thrived is that they have had a different cohort of families over the long term, which results in a long history of involved parents and prepared students.

The only point I was supporting was the idea that parents knew what they were getting into or should have. I have extreme sympathy for the dilemma but not for the position that parents did not decide to place themselves in that deli a to solve. Again, I am not speaking here to parents that have been proposed to be zoned out of successful schools or famies that do not have real choices in where they live. And by having no choices I don't mean parents that bought a condo in a gentrifying neighborhood and are underwater or educated parents that work for non profits and refuse to move to nova (where they could afford to live in a decent school district) because of the commute.

[Anonymous]

How are they supposed to move if they are underwater ?

I found Nova to be pricier than NE DC, less affordable, at least in areas with good schools, and there is no escape valve of charters there.

[Anonymous]

JKLM~JKLMM~JKLMMS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not a matter of being less worthy, it is a matter of knowing what the facts on the ground are. I think it is amazing/great/fabulous/understandable/whatever that the city is being gentrified and families are staying and revitalizing the city in many ways. The facts are that most schools outside wards 2, 3 and 4 with a few exceptions have long been abysmal failures, similar to many urban areas outside DC. This is not solely the result of failed dcps policies and this is information that is widely available. Of course the city needs to improve the schools for all, but that is a long term task at this point. The reason that some dcps schools have thrived is that they have had a different cohort of families over the long term, which results in a long history of involved parents and prepared students.

The only point I was supporting was the idea that parents knew what they were getting into or should have. I have extreme sympathy for the dilemma but not for the position that parents did not decide to place themselves in that deli a to solve. Again, I am not speaking here to parents that have been proposed to be zoned out of successful schools or famies that do not have real choices in where they live. And by having no choices I don't mean parents that bought a condo in a gentrifying neighborhood and are underwater or educated parents that work for non profits and refuse to move to nova (where they could afford to live in a decent school district) because of the commute.

It could also be that some families were lured to come or stay in DC because of the promise of school reform that Michelle Rhee brought. remember she was widely supported here and across the country as a miracle worker who was going to "turn-around" DCPS so all kids would be high-performing. As pie-in-the sky as that is, perhaps a lot of middle class parents believed it and expected the school system to be good by the time their kids were of age. Now they feel betrayed.

But what to do? Certainly not expect another miracle - which would be expecting DCPS to fix the system so it's good enough for middle class children. The plain truth is that the system can't be fixed unless there are middle class families in it. families and DCPS have to find a way to make that happen or the school system is doomed.

[Anonymous]

DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't.

I disagree with this point. Maybe there are things DCPS should do that it hasn't, but it does not carry all the blame. An at least equal share of blame belongs to families who abandoned their neighborhood schools. Some of that is just the ebb and flow of families moving around, which isn't DCPS fault and is really out of DCPS control. Some of that is to private schools, which is also unavoidable. Some is to charters, which offer many positives but have the side effect of draining off many good families from DCPS. Some is via families shifting to schools OOB from their neighborhoods under the idea of "choice."

And you can see a lot of this playing out in the current boundary discussion, where some people are threatening to abandon DCPS if they don't get the the particular school they want. I can empathize with their desire to avoid the risk and hard work that comes with building a school, so I wouldn't put all the blame on those families either. We seem to be stuck in a difficult spiral, and breaking it will require hard choices.

[Anonymous]

9:50 again. 9:42 and I seem to be on the same wavelength.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9:50 again. 9:42 and I seem to be on the same wavelength.

pretty much, but I'd avoid the word "blame" for parents trying to make the best educational choices for their kids and stress that the school system has more responsibility than parents to provide a decent education. It's a team effort, for sure, but the school system has a professional responsibility to make the schools attractive to parents. This can mean renovated buildings, strong academic programs and high quality teaching staff. and it MUST involve working directly with families to wants to attend its schools.

I do think both parents and DCPS officials have to somehow get beyond expecting the impossible: that any school will become 'high-performing" before a cohort of already "high performing" kids go there.

[Anonymous]

In order to greatly improve schools, DCPS has to laser focus it's efforts on children who are behind academically. Offering (and/or requiring) Saturday school, year-round school, later school days or pull-outs for remediation is key.

The effort to treat all children the same and foster "community" is understandable, but doesn't change a failing system quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In order to greatly improve schools, DCPS has to laser focus it's efforts on children who are behind academically. Offering (and/or requiring) Saturday school, year-round school, later school days or pull-outs for remediation is key.

The effort to treat all children the same and foster "community" is understandable, but doesn't change a failing system quickly.

nothing changes a failing system quickly, short of moving failing kids out and succeeding kids in. If DCPS hadn't tried to change the system quickly via Rhee's stupid reforms, we'd be further ahead right now -- but success would still be illusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't.

I disagree with this point. Maybe there are things DCPS should do that it hasn't, but it does not carry all the blame. An at least equal share of blame belongs to families who abandoned their neighborhood schools. Some of that is just the ebb and flow of families moving around, which isn't DCPS fault and is really out of DCPS control. Some of that is to private schools, which is also unavoidable. Some is to charters, which offer many positives but have the side effect of draining off many good families from DCPS. Some is via families shifting to schools OOB from their neighborhoods under the idea of "choice."

And you can see a lot of this playing out in the current boundary discussion, where some people are threatening to abandon DCPS if they don't get the the particular school they want. I can empathize with their desire to avoid the risk and hard work that comes with building a school, so I wouldn't put all the blame on those families either. We seem to be stuck in a difficult spiral, and breaking it will require hard choices.

You are confusing cause and effect. Most of the people who "abandoned" their neighborhood schools did so out of frustration with DCPS, given DCPS isn't addressing the many issues with kids not getting the appropriate level of early remediation they need get back on grade level (which ends up holding the other students back) along with not appropriately addressing the rampant problems with behavior and disruption on classrooms (which likewise ends up holding the other students back). There are many things which should be in DCPS's control - but DCPS has not been adequately stepping up to the plate to deal with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In order to greatly improve schools, DCPS has to laser focus it's efforts on children who are behind academically. Offering (and/or requiring) Saturday school, year-round school, later school days or pull-outs for remediation is key.

The effort to treat all children the same and foster "community" is understandable, but doesn't change a failing system quickly.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DCPS made the crappy schools. Parents didn't.

I disagree with this point. Maybe there are things DCPS should do that it hasn't, but it does not carry all the blame. An at least equal share of blame belongs to families who abandoned their neighborhood schools. Some of that is just the ebb and flow of families moving around, which isn't DCPS fault and is really out of DCPS control. Some of that is to private schools, which is also unavoidable. Some is to charters, which offer many positives but have the side effect of draining off many good families from DCPS. Some is via families shifting to schools OOB from their neighborhoods under the idea of "choice."

And you can see a lot of this playing out in the current boundary discussion, where some people are threatening to abandon DCPS if they don't get the the particular school they want. I can empathize with their desire to avoid the risk and hard work that comes with building a school, so I wouldn't put all the blame on those families either. We seem to be stuck in a difficult spiral, and breaking it will require hard choices.

You are confusing cause and effect. Most of the people who "abandoned" their neighborhood schools did so out of frustration with DCPS, given DCPS isn't addressing the many issues with kids not getting the appropriate level of early remediation they need get back on grade level (which ends up holding the other students back) along with not appropriately addressing the rampant problems with behavior and disruption on classrooms (which likewise ends up holding the other students back). There are many things which should be in DCPS's control - but DCPS has not been adequately stepping up to the plate to deal with them.

DCPS could instill some confidence if it started addressing some of these issues^^ effectively. but will it?