attitude about appeals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just went to our AAP orientation today and it kind of surprised me that there was a little bit of a tone and a look the principal and AAP teachers made when asked about number of kids teachers etc. they talked about how it changes b/c of appeals. it wasn't a blatant eye roll, but it was obvious what they thought of appeals and how it increases the numbers.

I have a friend appealing so I am just curious, does the appeal label follow the kids? is it mostly accepted that the appeal kids belong there and that it is very possible kids that missed should be in app?

just curious, what the tone is at other schools.

If this was in Vienna, you completely read into it. There was no tone or look given. The principal simply said there were 90 eligible kids, most rising second graders and that as of now it is impossible to answer how many kids will be in each class, relative to class size.

Really hope this isn't the new center at Westbriar, as this would be three classes and already over projections -- also close to or greater than base population of rising second graders.

It happens at center schools all the time. Westbriar won't grow like that because it isn't a center.

Westbriar became a center this year.

I thought it was Local Level IV, not a center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone is going to remember if the kid was appealed or not. Once you are in AAP, you are AAP.

They really should do random periodic evaluations of qualifications/performance for kids in this program and kick out the ones who clearly prepped in but cannot keep up.

I would think they it would be self-evident if a child doesn't belong there because they are struggling with the material or pacing. So if a child is placed in AAP and they are obviously struggling can the school suggest they would be better off in gen. ed. or are they obligated to offer supports for that child so they are able to remain? I'm not sure what kind of supports would be available but I'm curious how this works. It doesn't seem to be in the best interest of the kids.

The "support" I see is private tutoring. Once again, money will keep certain students in the center when they clearly belong elsewhere.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed if I had to hire a tutor for my AAP kid.

Some kids may have a tutor because their skills are uneven. Where does a child belong who easily gets 4's in three of the four AAP subject areas (language arts, math, social science, and science) but struggles in one of the areas, perhaps because of a learning disability? A child like this doesn't fit neatly into any category. Since AAP is all or nothing, the way the system is set up, kids who excel in 75% of AAP fit better in AAP than in gen ed. Of course if all of the areas were a problem or even half of the areas, gen ed would be a better fit.

AAP is an all or nothing, but there are still level III and IV services. Also, excelling in all areas isn't the basis for level IV services. If it were, then the top 10-20% of each class would move to AAP and that would be the end of it. That is a single component only.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just went to our AAP orientation today and it kind of surprised me that there was a little bit of a tone and a look the principal and AAP teachers made when asked about number of kids teachers etc. they talked about how it changes b/c of appeals. it wasn't a blatant eye roll, but it was obvious what they thought of appeals and how it increases the numbers.

I have a friend appealing so I am just curious, does the appeal label follow the kids? is it mostly accepted that the appeal kids belong there and that it is very possible kids that missed should be in app?

just curious, what the tone is at other schools.

Teachers and adminstrators see your children differently than you do, often for worse, but also often for better. They have a more objective assessment of your child's capabilities and academic strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure they deal constantly with parents who think their child should be in AAP, but they know the child would thrive in Gen Ed. So, what they have to deal with are pushy parents who think they are advocating for their child but are really trying to justify themselves. There is a simliar phenomenon in sports where parents think their kids are super talented. And they may, in fact, be talented, but they're not necessarily elite. Once upon a time, AAP was more "elite" in terms of who actually qualified, now, in our anxiety-ridden achievement culture (that begins with finding the right preschool, natch), the population of these programs has grown as administrators have aquiesced to pushy parents. So, it's no wonder they're sort of rolling their eyes when parents start asking about appeals as if it is fait accompli or seem to view AAP as an entitlement or inevitable. They've seen this (shit) show before. Repeatedly.

THIS, 100%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow Wow Wow. So if parents have money then kids must be gifted.... Never encountered such extreme ignorance.

No, that is not what was said. There is a correlation between income and education. Are there brilliant high school dropouts? Of course. But to dismiss higher performing students out of hand due to their parents' income/education isn't fair either.

Parents with money, education, etc. are simply the ones who demand the most from their public schools, other kids be damned. They speak the loudest and know how to work the system, and so they are the ones FCPS caters to. It has nothing to do with their children's "giftedness," or lack thereof.

I love how DCUM thinks all those people who live in million dollar homes are also somewhat stupid. Yeah, the stupid rich.

Clearly you need to read the post again. It says the rich have the resources and knowledge of the system to get their kids into AAP, but that the kids themselves are not necessarily 'gifted'. Nothing about rich people being stupid. But it's definitely not a given their kids are geniuses either. And oh how the wealthy hate to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just went to our AAP orientation today and it kind of surprised me that there was a little bit of a tone and a look the principal and AAP teachers made when asked about number of kids teachers etc. they talked about how it changes b/c of appeals. it wasn't a blatant eye roll, but it was obvious what they thought of appeals and how it increases the numbers.

I have a friend appealing so I am just curious, does the appeal label follow the kids? is it mostly accepted that the appeal kids belong there and that it is very possible kids that missed should be in app?

just curious, what the tone is at other schools.

If this was in Vienna, you completely read into it. There was no tone or look given. The principal simply said there were 90 eligible kids, most rising second graders and that as of now it is impossible to answer how many kids will be in each class, relative to class size.

Really hope this isn't the new center at Westbriar, as this would be three classes and already over projections -- also close to or greater than base population of rising second graders.

It happens at center schools all the time. Westbriar won't grow like that because it isn't a center.

Westbriar became a center this year.

I thought it was Local Level IV, not a center.

Wrong- they implemented this change to redirect AAP students away from Archer, which is at overcapacity. Freedom Hill and Sternwood feed to Westbriar's new center.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/centers.shtml

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anyone is going to remember if the kid was appealed or not. Once you are in AAP, you are AAP.

They really should do random periodic evaluations of qualifications/performance for kids in this program and kick out the ones who clearly prepped in but cannot keep up.

I would think they it would be self-evident if a child doesn't belong there because they are struggling with the material or pacing. So if a child is placed in AAP and they are obviously struggling can the school suggest they would be better off in gen. ed. or are they obligated to offer supports for that child so they are able to remain? I'm not sure what kind of supports would be available but I'm curious how this works. It doesn't seem to be in the best interest of the kids.

The "support" I see is private tutoring. Once again, money will keep certain students in the center when they clearly belong elsewhere.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed if I had to hire a tutor for my AAP kid.

Some kids may have a tutor because their skills are uneven. Where does a child belong who easily gets 4's in three of the four AAP subject areas (language arts, math, social science, and science) but struggles in one of the areas, perhaps because of a learning disability? A child like this doesn't fit neatly into any category. Since AAP is all or nothing, the way the system is set up, kids who excel in 75% of AAP fit better in AAP than in gen ed. Of course if all of the areas were a problem or even half of the areas, gen ed would be a better fit.

AAP is an all or nothing, but there are still level III and IV services. Also, excelling in all areas isn't the basis for level IV services. If it were, then the top 10-20% of each class would move to AAP and that would be the end of it. That is a single component only.

"AAP is an all or nothing, but there are still level III and IV services." Level III may be for only one hour per week. Local level IV isn't at each school. Full-time level IV may be the only option other than gen ed at some schools, if you want your child to have more than a one hour pull out each week.

"Also, excelling in all areas isn't the basis for level IV services. If it were, then the top 10-20% of each class would move to AAP and that would be the end of it. That is a single component only." I agree with you. AAP kids may not excel in every area, so some may need a tutor in an area that isn't a strength, while the program overall allows them to develop in areas where they are at 98 or 99 percentile. Even the committee recognizes this in the selection process. Meeting threshhold in even one area of CogAT puts kids in pool for consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just went to our AAP orientation today and it kind of surprised me that there was a little bit of a tone and a look the principal and AAP teachers made when asked about number of kids teachers etc. they talked about how it changes b/c of appeals. it wasn't a blatant eye roll, but it was obvious what they thought of appeals and how it increases the numbers.

I have a friend appealing so I am just curious, does the appeal label follow the kids? is it mostly accepted that the appeal kids belong there and that it is very possible kids that missed should be in app?

just[u] curious, what the tone is at other schools.

If this was in Vienna, you completely read into it. There was no tone or look given. The principal simply said there were [b]90 eligible kids, most rising second graders and that as of now it is impossible to answer how many kids will be in each class, relative to class size.

Really hope this isn't the new center at Westbriar, as this would be three classes and already over projections -- also close to or greater than base population of rising second graders.

It happens at center schools all the time. Westbriar won't grow like that because it isn't a center.

Westbriar became a center this year.

I thought it was Local Level IV, not a center.

Wrong- they implemented this change to redirect AAP students away from Archer, which is at overcapacity. Freedom Hill and Sternwood feed to Westbriar's new center.

http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/centers.shtml

Thanks for the information. Your delivery could be a little gentler, though.