Why are people so upset about Common Core?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Not the pp, but I do education research for a living. It's absolutely true. Sorry you do not wish to hear it. This is why more challenging standards are needed. (Though I don't disagree that implementation has been a real sh*tshow in many districts. That's a huge problem.)

Just by way of a history lesson, so people can understand how we got here, NCLB gave states a huge incentive to dumb down their standards. States that didn't meet self-established performance goals got dinged. So, many states just set low standards so they wouldn't face the consequences. In many cases, this resulted in a dumbing down of some education systems and curriculum. This has been going on for the better part of a decade. We're so used to it by now that we can't even seen how far behind we really are -- until you look at kids in other countries. Then you realize that we simply have to do better.

What I don't like about Common Core is that it continues to place the emphasis on schools instead of parents. Parents who don't invest in their kids, who don't read to them, who don't contribute toward their education in and outside of class, who rely on the schools to do all of the educating, are the reason kids do poorly. I realize that it's hard for parents who are working two jobs, etc., and we as a society need to do more to support that group. But, there are plenty of parents who don't work two jobs who still think the school is responsible for educating and they just follow along. There are plenty of parents who work two jobs and still insist on driving their kids to excel in school too. In my opinion, it's our parenting that needs to change if we are to move the needle on achievement. Perhaps not this extreme, but a little more Tiger momming would not kill us.

Holy deficit perspective, batman! Where do you work that this kind of attitude can pass in "education research"? The Heritage Foundation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The short and simple answer: people confuse the standards with curriculum. The standards are rigorous but appropriate, and the idea that every child, no matter what state he/she lives in should have the same baseline of education is a good one.

If you don't like the currcicula your school system chose or chooses to teach the standards, THAT is a different issue.

From what I read, some parents and teachers are indignant about various aspects of both curriculum and assessment tools associated with the common core. So now proponents of the core standards are adopting the position that this curricular approach and new tests have nothing to do with the standards. Okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not the pp, but I do education research for a living. It's absolutely true. Sorry you do not wish to hear it. This is why more challenging standards are needed. (Though I don't disagree that implementation has been a real sh*tshow in many districts. That's a huge problem.)

Just by way of a history lesson, so people can understand how we got here, NCLB gave states a huge incentive to dumb down their standards. States that didn't meet self-established performance goals got dinged. So, many states just set low standards so they wouldn't face the consequences. In many cases, this resulted in a dumbing down of some education systems and curriculum. This has been going on for the better part of a decade. We're so used to it by now that we can't even seen how far behind we really are -- until you look at kids in other countries. Then you realize that we simply have to do better.

What I don't like about Common Core is that it continues to place the emphasis on schools instead of parents. Parents who don't invest in their kids, who don't read to them, who don't contribute toward their education in and outside of class, who rely on the schools to do all of the educating, are the reason kids do poorly. I realize that it's hard for parents who are working two jobs, etc., and we as a society need to do more to support that group. But, there are plenty of parents who don't work two jobs who still think the school is responsible for educating and they just follow along. There are plenty of parents who work two jobs and still insist on driving their kids to excel in school too. In my opinion, it's our parenting that needs to change if we are to move the needle on achievement. Perhaps not this extreme, but a little more Tiger momming would not kill us.

Holy deficit perspective, batman! Where do you work that this kind of attitude can pass in "education research"? The Heritage Foundation?

You don't agree? All the research on the achievement gap shows that it has grown or stayed stable because higher SES parents are investing so much more in their kids' education. (Achievement in other groups has also increased, btw, but the gap hasn't closed because high SES parents have upped the ante.) Kids in certain homes are also way more likely to have much bigger vocabularies, which is a huge deal for achievement. It's not true across-the-board, but Asian-American kids are (as a group) out-performing all other groups in large part because their families invest heavily in their education.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, btw. I come from poverty and a low-education Hispanic community. The facts are the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The short and simple answer: people confuse the standards with curriculum. The standards are rigorous but appropriate, and the idea that every child, no matter what state he/she lives in should have the same baseline of education is a good one.

If you don't like the currcicula your school system chose or chooses to teach the standards, THAT is a different issue.

From what I read, some parents and teachers are indignant about various aspects of both curriculum and assessment tools associated with the common core. So now proponents of the core standards are adopting the position that this curricular approach and new tests have nothing to do with the standards. Okay.

?

Some parents and teachers are upset about the curricula and the tests, but not about the standards, so now Common Core supporters are saying that those parents and teachers are upset about the curricula and the tests, but not about the standards. What's eye-roll about that?

Of course, other people are upset about the standards -- on grounds that they

a. are too easy
b. are too hard
c. shouldn't exist in the first place, because states' rights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't agree? All the research on the achievement gap shows that it has grown or stayed stable because higher SES parents are investing so much more in their kids' education. (Achievement in other groups has also increased, btw, but the gap hasn't closed because high SES parents have upped the ante.) Kids in certain homes are also way more likely to have much bigger vocabularies, which is a huge deal for achievement. It's not true across-the-board, but Asian-American kids are (as a group) out-performing all other groups in large part because their families invest heavily in their education.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, btw. I come from poverty and a low-education Hispanic community. The facts are the facts.

Sure, but another way of saying this is that the best way to close the achievement gap is for more people to be able to become middle class. I'm all in favor of this, but I don't think it's an education policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

break numbers up to 10 into two groups. For example, if given 6 buttons, be able to break them into 4+2, or 3+ 3, etc. And then beable to WRITE 4 under the group that has 4, and 2 under the group that has 2.
- know what two numbers add up to 10. (1 and 9, 2 and 8, 3 and 7, 4 and 6 , 5 and 5)
- know math addition and subtraction facts to 5 fluently (from memory, not needing to count on your fingers)

These standards ARE the basics.

These are basic and teachers have always taught them. The problem comes with standardized testing. It is one thing to draw a picture on a large piece of paper, it is quite another with a standardized test.

except kindergartners don't take the standardized test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The short and simple answer: people confuse the standards with curriculum. The standards are rigorous but appropriate, and the idea that every child, no matter what state he/she lives in should have the same baseline of education is a good one.

If you don't like the currcicula your school system chose or chooses to teach the standards, THAT is a different issue.

From what I read, some parents and teachers are indignant about various aspects of both curriculum and assessment tools associated with the common core. So now proponents of the core standards are adopting the position that this curricular approach and new tests have nothing to do with the standards. Okay.

?

Some parents and teachers are upset about the curricula and the tests, but not about the standards, so now Common Core supporters are saying that those parents and teachers are upset about the curricula and the tests, but not about the standards. What's eye-roll about that?

Of course, other people are upset about the standards -- on grounds that they

a. are too easy
b. are too hard
c. shouldn't exist in the first place, because states' rights

Except that the state has a right to adopt them or chose not to. Several states have not adopted the Common Core.

[Anonymous]

Except that the state has a right to adopt them or chose not to. Several states have not adopted the Common Core.

And the Feds try to say this is a state mandate--when they are giving money to the states based on the adoption of common core.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Except that the state has a right to adopt them or chose not to. Several states have not adopted the Common Core.

And the Feds try to say this is a state mandate--when they are giving money to the states based on the adoption of common core.

"You must do this" is different from "If you do this, I will give you money".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 19:16 - well, it's a bit of a secret, but most fourth graders in mcps don't know their times tables thanks to the new curriculum based on the common core. This is precisely because they didn't teach them at school in third or fourth grade. And guess what? They are realizing that kids can't do long division without having a strong grasp of basic times tables. So go ahead and make light of it, but it's a very real problem with the math curriculum.

Crazy talk, I'm in Maryland (not Montgomery County) and we are following common core in our county. Multiplication is still taught in second grade just as it has always been, same with division. Whatever you are complaining about has nothing to do with common core.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

break numbers up to 10 into two groups. For example, if given 6 buttons, be able to break them into 4+2, or 3+ 3, etc. And then beable to WRITE 4 under the group that has 4, and 2 under the group that has 2.
- know what two numbers add up to 10. (1 and 9, 2 and 8, 3 and 7, 4 and 6 , 5 and 5)
- know math addition and subtraction facts to 5 fluently (from memory, not needing to count on your fingers)

These standards ARE the basics.

These are basic and teachers have always taught them. The problem comes with standardized testing. It is one thing to draw a picture on a large piece of paper, it is quite another with a standardized test.

The common core standardized tests are called PARCC and don't start until next year, grades 3, 4, and 5 will be taking them, not kindergarten. It basically just replaces the Maryland state assessments

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Except that the state has a right to adopt them or chose not to. Several states have not adopted the Common Core.

And the Feds try to say this is a state mandate--when they are giving money to the states based on the adoption of common core.

"You must do this" is different from "If you do this, I will give you money".

+1... and, Common Core came from the states in the first place. It was not a Federal initiative. Feds got involved after the fact, and only in areas like providing funds to help support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't agree? All the research on the achievement gap shows that it has grown or stayed stable because higher SES parents are investing so much more in their kids' education. (Achievement in other groups has also increased, btw, but the gap hasn't closed because high SES parents have upped the ante.) Kids in certain homes are also way more likely to have much bigger vocabularies, which is a huge deal for achievement. It's not true across-the-board, but Asian-American kids are (as a group) out-performing all other groups in large part because their families invest heavily in their education.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal, btw. I come from poverty and a low-education Hispanic community. The facts are the facts.

Sure, but another way of saying this is that the best way to close the achievement gap is for more people to be able to become middle class. I'm all in favor of this, but I don't think it's an education policy.

PP here. More people need to act and think like the middle class. They don't have to be middle class. There've been some fascinating studies on the effects of poverty on the ability to think long term (stress does crazy stuff). There are things that can be done. But, no, it's not education policy. You aren't going to make a dent in the achievement gap until you deal with the root problem. The rest of it is just tinkering around the edges.

[Anonymous]

+1... and, Common Core came from the states in the first place. It was not a Federal initiative. Feds got involved after the fact, and only in areas like providing funds to help support it.

Exactly. And, once the Feds get hold of it, it changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1... and, Common Core came from the states in the first place. It was not a Federal initiative. Feds got involved after the fact, and only in areas like providing funds to help support it.

Exactly. And, once the Feds get hold of it, it changes.

How does it change?