can you get into a top college if you don't do CAP/Magnet/IB?

[Anonymous]

To the OP, my personal experience is similar to yours in that I grew up in a small town at a comprehensive HS with no AP offerings, did very well and went to Yale. I have chosen to live in a rowhouse in a not chic part of DC and send my kids to Deal MS and Wilson HS. The AP offerings at Wilson are extensive, they have great support in a variety of disciplines through the academies, and the competition is less intense in terms of the sheer numbers of driven college-crazed students. All in all a good deal financially and a strategic move academically. Consider it.

[Anonymous]

Yes if course, but your kids may not be ready for the rigorous course work and higher level thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in college admissions at a top 15 liberal arts college. With similar test scores and similar programs, Kid x who is in the bottom half of the top 20% at a W school is not getting in while kid y who is in the top 10% at Wheaton IS getting in.

At a top 15 LAC, a kid in the top 10% at Wheaton would still have a very low shot of getting in. Get real. It's not a school exactly bursting with high achievers.

And your personal experience with the kids in the top 10% at Wheaton HS is...?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in college admissions at a top 15 liberal arts college. With similar test scores and similar programs, Kid x who is in the bottom half of the top 20% at a W school is not getting in while kid y who is in the top 10% at Wheaton IS getting in.

At a top 15 LAC, a kid in the top 10% at Wheaton would still have a very low shot of getting in. Get real. It's not a school exactly bursting with high achievers.

You're wrong. It's the Yale or jail phenomenon. Colleges like to see high performers (with objectively good scores on SATs and APs) come out of less than stellar schools because it speaks to initiative, persistence and helps to diversify their acceptance pool. No college or university likes admit too many students from any one particular school so there is somewhat of a penalty for kids at W schools who aren't the absolute best and the brightest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes if course, but your kids may not be ready for the rigorous course work and higher level thinking.

I'm not at all convinced that top schools are that hard. They all have graduation rates in the mid to high 90s. I was a TA at a highly selective school and kids just weren't given failing grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in college admissions at a top 15 liberal arts college. With similar test scores and similar programs, Kid x who is in the bottom half of the top 20% at a W school is not getting in while kid y who is in the top 10% at Wheaton IS getting in.

At a top 15 LAC, a kid in the top 10% at Wheaton would still have a very low shot of getting in. Get real. It's not a school exactly bursting with high achievers.

You're wrong. It's the Yale or jail phenomenon. Colleges like to see high performers (with objectively good scores on SATs and APs) come out of less than stellar schools because it speaks to initiative, persistence and helps to diversify their acceptance pool. No college or university likes admit too many students from any one particular school so there is somewhat of a penalty for kids at W schools who aren't the absolute best and the brightest.

Different poster here. Yale or Jail is a phenomenon at some schools like Wilson, but not at every area high school. I'm not the PP with a kid at Wilson. But Wilson is a known entity with some very high achieving kids in some very well-regarded special programs. Same for MoCo magnets and the W schools - all of these places have great reputations and together they can supply the 30-something kids a college will want to take from the DC area. So the selective colleges may take the top 10% from Whitman or Wilson and the top 2% from Wheaton (I'm making these numbers up, but you see the point).

FWIW, Bethesda Magazine recently published acceptance stats for certain area high schools, although Wheaton isn't among them this year: http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Magazine/September-October-2013/College-Bound/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes if course, but your kids may not be ready for the rigorous course work and higher level thinking.

I'm not at all convinced that top schools are that hard. They all have graduation rates in the mid to high 90s. I was a TA at a highly selective school and kids just weren't given failing grades.

DC is at a very top USNWR school. The kids work their butts off and there really is a ton of work and stress. But it's true, nobody gets Cs there (at least that I've heard about).

[Anonymous]

Think of Yale or Jail schools as the ones with a barbell between the super-intense overachievers at one end and the underachievers at the other end. For whatever reason, like special programs or barriers to success. Wilson or Ballou are the schools people on DCUM often mention as Yale or Jail. It may seem unfair, or maybe not, but schools like Wheaton with a bunch of good kids in the middle don't fall into this category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in college admissions at a top 15 liberal arts college. With similar test scores and similar programs, Kid x who is in the bottom half of the top 20% at a W school is not getting in while kid y who is in the top 10% at Wheaton IS getting in.

At a top 15 LAC, a kid in the top 10% at Wheaton would still have a very low shot of getting in. Get real. It's not a school exactly bursting with high achievers.

You're wrong. It's the Yale or jail phenomenon. Colleges like to see high performers (with objectively good scores on SATs and APs) come out of less than stellar schools because it speaks to initiative, persistence and helps to diversify their acceptance pool. No college or university likes admit too many students from any one particular school so there is somewhat of a penalty for kids at W schools who aren't the absolute best and the brightest.

Different poster here. Yale or Jail is a phenomenon at some schools like Wilson, but not at every area high school. I'm not the PP with a kid at Wilson. But Wilson is a known entity with some very high achieving kids in some very well-regarded special programs. Same for MoCo magnets and the W schools - all of these places have great reputations and together they can supply the 30-something kids a college will want to take from the DC area. So the selective colleges may take the top 10% from Whitman or Wilson and the top 2% from Wheaton (I'm making these numbers up, but you see the point).

FWIW, Bethesda Magazine recently published acceptance stats for certain area high schools, although Wheaton isn't among them this year: http://www.bethesdamagazine.com/Bethesda-Magazine/September-October-2013/College-Bound/

But the point is that it is a lot easier to be in the 2% at Wheaton than it is at Whitman. If you are a highly motivated and high achieving student at Wheaton you are going to stand out. Big fish, small pond. It's the same at Wilson where there is little overall competition for the high achievers relative to a W school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But the point is that it is a lot easier to be in the 2% at Wheaton than it is at Whitman. If you are a highly motivated and high achieving student at Wheaton you are going to stand out. Big fish, small pond. It's the same at Wilson where there is little overall competition for the high achievers relative to a W school.

There may be fewer people competing with you at Wheaton than at Whitman. But I don't think that "easier" is the right word.

[Anonymous]

My kids are slated for Albert Einstein. Would someone please post where last year's graduates went to college. I am not ivy obsessed, just wondering...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes if course, but your kids may not be ready for the rigorous course work and higher level thinking.

Pish posh.

I was waiting for someone to say this. Someone said this to me several years ago about our friend's Einstein grad daughter, who went to a HYP Ivy. It is nonsense. She did very well in college and is in grad school now, again at an Ivy.

My own DD, also an Einstein grad, is in medical school. Her brother is at a competitive SLAC, ranked in the single digits by national rankings.

"May not be ready for the rigorous course work and higher level thinking" really means, "I paid a lot of money for my W school district house and need to believe it is the only way to get my kid to the "right" schools."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
But the point is that it is a lot easier to be in the 2% at Wheaton than it is at Whitman. If you are a highly motivated and high achieving student at Wheaton you are going to stand out. Big fish, small pond. It's the same at Wilson where there is little overall competition for the high achievers relative to a W school.

No, we don't have enough info to answer this one way or the other. You're assuming the top is really thin at Wheaton and an ambitious kid can scoot to the top of the 10 other Wheaton kids who are applying to highly selective colleges. But what if 50 Wheaton kids are vying for highly selective colleges? Does a kid have a better chance trying to be in the 1-2% of Wheaton's 50 competitive kids, or trying to get into the top 10% of Whitman's 200 kids who are vying for highly selective colleges? Leaving aside how much of this depends on the particular kid, neither you nor I has the data to answer this.

Also, don't assume that colleges are oblivious to the fact that a high GPA might be partially the result of attending a school with an easier grading curve. Besides, the GPA is more like a basic threshold for applying to Yale, as opposed to being the key to acceptance at Yale. There are so many other factors that are independent of the high school, like your SATs and many ECs that, at the highly competitive level, take place outside of high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked in college admissions at a top 15 liberal arts college. With similar test scores and similar programs, Kid x who is in the bottom half of the top 20% at a W school is not getting in while kid y who is in the top 10% at Wheaton IS getting in.

At a top 15 LAC, a kid in the top 10% at Wheaton would still have a very low shot of getting in. Get real. It's not a school exactly bursting with high achievers.

You're wrong. It's the Yale or jail phenomenon. Colleges like to see high performers (with objectively good scores on SATs and APs) come out of less than stellar schools because it speaks to initiative, persistence and helps to diversify their acceptance pool. No college or university likes admit too many students from any one particular school so there is somewhat of a penalty for kids at W schools who aren't the absolute best and the brightest.

So true! That's why so many W. kids whose parents foresee they will not be at the tippy top send to privates! Bright kids -- why penalize them for their parents' bad decision to buy in a W.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes if course, but your kids may not be ready for the rigorous course work and higher level thinking.

I'm not at all convinced that top schools are that hard. They all have graduation rates in the mid to high 90s. I was a TA at a highly selective school and kids just weren't given failing grades.

Absolutely!! Same experience here.