Punishing the entire class for the poor behavior of a few

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The bolded? Doesn't sound like something America was founded upon.

So?? It's a fact of life. What a person does affects those around them. Rarely if ever does a decision affect only the person who made it.

When you punish a group for something a few do, what have you taught the few who have caused the ruckus? That they can get a whole lot of people in trouble due to their actions. And that can be a ton of fun in itself.

We are no longer allowed to single out little Johnny or Mary, because their feelings might be hurt. And we wonder why so many adults are self-centered?

The bolded points out the problem. If you punish the class it isn't fair/teaches kids causing a ruckus is fun. (Although the few who caused it are also missing out on recess or otherwise facing the consequences along with everyone else.)

If you single them out, you might hurt their feelings.

What is a teacher supposed to do?

[Anonymous]

Haven't read all the responses, but here are my thoughts

1.) Never punish a class because of the choices of a few kids. It's unfair and it can lead to the kids resenting the child who acts out. Often the "troublemakers" are impulsive and/or stressed out by some major life circumstances outside of school. The last thing these kids need is for kids to hate him or her.

2.) Taking away recess punishes the adults as much as students. Children need playtime . The break and exercise helps them be more ready to learn. It is cruel to take away recess from anyone unless the child is bullying and/or aggressive. Taking away recess from a child who is hyper, etc is beyond moronic because it will likely make the regulation worse.

3.) Your kids get outdoor recess in this weather? My kids are so sick of indoor recess.

4.) Verify with the teacher that this is how she/he operates disciplines. Kids can tell tall-tales and you don't want to get in a tizzy unless it is warranted.

[Anonymous]

How about we do away with half day Mondays and allow our kids to have a longer recess.

[Anonymous]

(op) Thank you all for the thought out responses. It has been helpful to read and get some support for my gut instinct. The teacher verified that she does this daily and holds back (only) minutes from recess.

I do not think that recess should be held back for any amount of times albeit minutes. Especially for the younger grades. And, that her policy is to hold everyone accountable for the actions of some.

I wanted to ask her how she expected my child to control the misbehaving group- bully them, yell at them or punch them? He is 7. She is an adult and controlling the class is her job. Not an easy one for sure. But, I realize that is a tad dramatic in the situation.

Luckily, we have a wonderful principal who is supportive. The teacher may very well be wonderfull, too. I do not know yet. Hopefully, if she changes those two policies, her teaching will shine and my child won't hate school. And, there will be no more snow days.

Thanks again!

[Anonymous]

I would want to know more about the behaviors. If one child provokes and the majority copy, I think it is a reasonable punishment. I have no issue with my child being held back a few minutes or losing recess for misbehaving or being disrespectful. If anything, I would be more pissed I did not get a call or email so we could have consequences at home as well and make it clear it is not acceptable. Recess is great, but school is for learning. We participate in activities and go to the playground after school. Recess should not be their only daily exercise. Keeping back children for a few minutes is not bullying. It is punishing them/giving consequences for misbehaving. I would hope you reinforce it and also do it at home. A 7 year old knows better.

To the special needs parent complaining: Get over it. My kid is special needs too. He's got speech issues, receptive and expressive that lead to all kinds of delays and concerns. But, NO, is something most children can understand in less they are that severe and then those kids would be at a special school. If anything the special needs kids need very firm boundaries and understand the consequences as we find that consistency and reinforcement is very important. Luckily we rarely have an issue and our teacher communicates. But, I will not let the special needs be an excuse or have my child treated differently than another child because he has to learn how to survive in this ugly world we live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Recess is not supposed to be used as a reward or a punishment.....that is the policy at our school and I believe is FCPS policy.

Recess should never be taken away. Let kids be kids.

Except when they're being little shits. YOU try dealing with that in a classroom; likely kids who rule the roost at home thanks to parents with an entitled attitude like yours.

OMG you are a world class bitch. I pray you are not a teacher.

But that PP has a point. Esp in his area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The bolded? Doesn't sound like something America was founded upon.

So?? It's a fact of life. What a person does affects those around them. Rarely if ever does a decision affect only the person who made it.

When you punish a group for something a few do, what have you taught the few who have caused the ruckus? That they can get a whole lot of people in trouble due to their actions. And that can be a ton of fun in itself.

We are no longer allowed to single out little Johnny or Mary, because their feelings might be hurt. And we wonder why so many adults are self-centered?

The bolded points out the problem. If you punish the class it isn't fair/teaches kids causing a ruckus is fun. (Although the few who caused it are also missing out on recess or otherwise facing the consequences along with everyone else.)

If you single them out, you might hurt their feelings.

What is a teacher supposed to do?

The right thing to do for the kids is single them out. Hurt feelings aren't the end of the world and kids know when they are being difficult. Being singled out lets them know their personal behavior matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haven't read all the responses, but here are my thoughts

1.) Never punish a class because of the choices of a few kids. It's unfair and it can lead to the kids resenting the child who acts out. Often the "troublemakers" are impulsive and/or stressed out by some major life circumstances outside of school. The last thing these kids need is for kids to hate him or her.

2.) Taking away recess punishes the adults as much as students. Children need playtime . The break and exercise helps them be more ready to learn. It is cruel to take away recess from anyone unless the child is bullying and/or aggressive. Taking away recess from a child who is hyper, etc is beyond moronic because it will likely make the regulation worse.

3.) Your kids get outdoor recess in this weather? My kids are so sick of indoor recess.

4.) Verify with the teacher that this is how she/he operates disciplines. Kids can tell tall-tales and you don't want to get in a tizzy unless it is warranted.

This post is excellent. Love logic!!

[Anonymous]

OP, I would find out if your DC's district allows recess - or even minutes of it - to be taken away as punishment. Not allowed in APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Talk to the teacher and/or principal. This should not be happening. As it is, recess is only 20 minutes or so.

This. And get other parents involved. This sounds like a very lazy teacher. I especially think doing this to 1st graders is reprehensible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Recess is not supposed to be used as a reward or a punishment.....that is the policy at our school and I believe is FCPS policy.

Really? My DS (2nd grade) has complained about this happening frequently this year and last year. It is frustrating because DS is REALLY well behaved, as in bordering on an anxiety disorder about ever getting in trouble, and he gets very upset by what he perceives as the unfairness of this

Here's another weird punishment though - both my kids reported that kids at their school in the next grade up were in a few cases ( the "bad" kids) sent back to their prior year class for a talk with the teacher and made to sit in the younger classroom for an hour or so in what sounded like sort of public shaming - it is possible my kids misreported this in some way, but they both told me about it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised people are not screaming about this. Punishing my child would violate his IEP and I suspect he is not alone.

Your child's IEP prohibits punishment? Always?

Not always but allows it only under very limited circumstances, which require a minimum of about a day and a half to meet the criteria. FWIW, my son does not have behavior problems so it's not like it's a problem.

If his behavior isn't The focus of his iep then why is it addressed how the teacher can't discipline him? Not understanding.