anyone else have a 4th grader in MCPS who can't quickly rattle off multiplication facts?

[Anonymous]

MCPS fails to realize that you don't build deeper understanding if you don't know the basics. This holds true in any subject or field. They also seem to not realize that the thought processes and even areas of the brain that involve math are different from writing. Verbal and visual information is also processed different from writing. They seem to think if they can get kids to regurgitate in writing the verbal lessons they are giving that somehow this will lead to deeper understanding. Boy, it certainly does not.

Its not that hard to teach math and many other countries do it just fine. I honestly don't understand why MCPS educators are so idiotic about math. Its embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

I used to teach third grade. Every day kids got a one minute test on multiplication facts on what ever number they were on AND they got 100 fact problems for homework on whatever number they were on. For example, a kid working on multiplying 3's received 100 problems on X3. The next day they took a one minute test. If they passed it the homework was 100 problems on the 4's. If they didn't pass it they got the same worksheet on multiplying 3's.
I was the only third grade teacher who really made the kids memorize their math facts. I had parents who had older siblings come to me and complain that their children were struggling in math because they didn't know their math facts and if I could send home extra homework for the older siblings.
Memorizing math facts frees up working memory so a student can concentrate on conceptual understanding of a problem. It is frustrating for a kid to try and learn new material such as LCM with fractions if they don't know their math facts.

[Anonymous]

My 3rd grader processes information slowly - so he knows all his times tables, but can never give me that lightning-quick response, even on 2x2. The words just take a long time to go from his brain to his mouth. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ADHD kid with an IEP kid is in 3rd grade and is still adding and subtracting with his fingers. Most of the comments are on multiplication, but I am starting to get worried. Do you teachers think this is an issue that I should raise with the school. We have a tutor and are doing everything we can at home.

By the way, does anyone know any good, fun kindle apps for learning math facts.

I don't know an app but print off the addition tables.

http://www.prasinipriza.com/A/P/AA310040/10/ADDITION-TABLE.html

Hang it on the wall and mark off what he knows. I would guess he knows 0, 1, 10.
Then work on doubles 2+2, 3+3, 4+4, etc. (you will mark the diagnol)
Then work on "best friends" ... they add up to 10 so 1+9, 2+8, 3+7. (When you are in the car you say who is 6's best friend, the answer is 4... 10 is the majic number for so many reasons) (Then you have marked the diagnol the other way.)
Then do the 9's ... it is one less than the 10's 9+4 is 14-1=13 or you can say you put a 1 and then the number that is one less 3, 13. (looks better if you write it out)
9+2=11
9+3=12


then work on what is left which is not much and then keep emphasizing you know so much.

[Anonymous]

PP Here: Thanks for some of the addition ideas.

[Anonymous]

My kid can't do it as fast as I could as a kid, and his teacher reports that a number of kids are still struggling with this. I'm convinced it's because the new curriculum really didn't teach the basic facts the way we all learned them way back when. I remember doing math races/flashcard competitions every day when I was a kid at the end of each math class (catholic school --- sink or swim, that sort of competition was encouraged). My kid does well in school (not gifted, but straight Ps, FWIW), and he can figure out the answer within a few seconds by adding/counting --- but he can't rattle off SOME of the multiplication facts the way most of us could within a split second.

Just curious if anyone else has a kid in a similar boat --- or if it's just our school (which is not a Title 1 school by any stretch of the imagination).

We have never depended on the MCPS math curriculum or math teachers (it and they are inadequate). I taught all 3 of my children their multiple times tables before they entered Kindergarten (age 5). I figured if my Dad and Mom taught me (and 4 other sibs) this in the late 1950s; it's the least I can do for my children. It took about 4 months on average for each of them on the 5 min drive in the morning to their kindergarten class. We made a fun game learning the tables forwards and backwards (in reverse) and skipping by 2s, 3s, 7s... forwards and backwards.

Best investment of 5 min in the morning ever.

Lesson 1: If you depend on the MCPS elementary school curriculum and teachers, alone, to teach your children basic mathematics you may be disappointed. We did not let this happen from day 1 with any of our children.

[Anonymous]

Memorization will come in time. In the mean time, I am going to enjoy watching my daughter have a much better number sense than I did at that age (even thought I was able to rattle off facts much more quickly).

Number sense is useless without memory. Just ask any one with Alzheimer's and dementia who can't even remember their own name ... let alone their significant others and children. A good memory is an important skill to have.

Please don't give memorization a bad name. When you can no longer do it (like sex) you'll understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It took about 4 months on average for each of them on the 5 min drive in the morning to their kindergarten class. We made a fun game learning the tables forwards and backwards (in reverse) and skipping by 2s, 3s, 7s... forwards and backwards.

Why did you drive them five minutes to school? I'm asking; I'm not criticizing.

[Anonymous]

That's something you need to practice with your child at home.

[Anonymous]

Why did you drive them five minutes to school? I'm asking; I'm not criticizing.

You are free to criticize.

On the way to work, I dropped the children off ( 6 - 7 blocks) at the school. It beats worrying about 4 and 5 year-olds navigating the roads/streets by themselves. When each of them got to about the 3rd or 4th Grade they would walk and return on their own unless the weather was not agreeable. There is no bus service to school when you live this close to the elementary school. I suspect you could pick up the service when you arrived at the school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is well and good that people think parents should be teaching this at home. What about parents who are not able to do this--maybe they have two jobs, or have health or other problems, or don't have a lot of schooling themselves. Are their kids just not supposed to learn these things? This is a school's job to teach and if they can't teach basic math facts to mastery they are not teaching.

uh - I'm a teacher in a "low performing" high school. And while we do our best to make certain that the majority of the learning is done w/in the classroom, we aren't following kids home to help them study. Number sense can be taught in school. Memorization requires time - preferably a chunk of time in a quiet place. You don't understand the difference?

So yes, my students work. Many parents work two jobs. They have odd hours. Older siblings often watch younger siblings. Many live in poverty.

But to EXPECT teachers to become responsible for society's ills is ridiculous, and you look like an ass posting what you did. not very smart, are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Memorization will come in time. In the mean time, I am going to enjoy watching my daughter have a much better number sense than I did at that age (even thought I was able to rattle off facts much more quickly).

Number sense is useless without memory. Just ask any one with Alzheimer's and dementia who can't even remember their own name ... let alone their significant others and children. A good memory is an important skill to have.

Please don't give memorization a bad name. When you can no longer do it (like sex) you'll understand.

uh

Are you being ironic here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My kid can't do it as fast as I could as a kid, and his teacher reports that a number of kids are still struggling with this. I'm convinced it's because the new curriculum really didn't teach the basic facts the way we all learned them way back when. I remember doing math races/flashcard competitions every day when I was a kid at the end of each math class (catholic school --- sink or swim, that sort of competition was encouraged). My kid does well in school (not gifted, but straight Ps, FWIW), and he can figure out the answer within a few seconds by adding/counting --- but he can't rattle off SOME of the multiplication facts the way most of us could within a split second.

Just curious if anyone else has a kid in a similar boat --- or if it's just our school (which is not a Title 1 school by any stretch of the imagination).

We have never depended on the MCPS math curriculum or math teachers (it and they are inadequate). I taught all 3 of my children their multiple times tables before they entered Kindergarten (age 5). I figured if my Dad and Mom taught me (and 4 other sibs) this in the late 1950s; it's the least I can do for my children. It took about 4 months on average for each of them on the 5 min drive in the morning to their kindergarten class. We made a fun game learning the tables forwards and backwards (in reverse) and skipping by 2s, 3s, 7s... forwards and backwards.

Best investment of 5 min in the morning ever.

Lesson 1: If you depend on the MCPS elementary school curriculum and teachers, alone, to teach your children basic mathematics you may be disappointed. We did not let this happen from day 1 with any of our children.

You sound like fun.

I bet all your kids' pals hang at your house after school and on weekends.

What's next? state capitals?

[Anonymous]

OP, FWIW, I never had my 6,7,8 tables memorized and I was a math major, with a 3.7 GPA from a good school.
Still don't know them.

[Anonymous]

You sound like fun.

I bet all your kids' pals hang at your house after school and on weekends.

What's next? state capitals?

Thanks for the compliment. They all do. I coach their undefeated soccer team. One of the team members won their school Geo Bee this past week. Fancy that. I'll entertain you and your kids if you're interested, too.