FCPS Class Size Petition- Please sign (and pass around for signatures)

[Anonymous]

As a former teacher, I think class size matters. However, studies say otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Here is a good article about class size, including research findings.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/776706

[Anonymous]

16:47 It may not matter which is considered better. Teachers in large class sizes have already said they're fed up with the amount of children and the pay they get. So unless both are fixed, don't expect them to stay in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that this is a stupid petition. Yes, I want smaller class sizes, but "the man" already knows this and a petition isn't going to make it happen. And the county can't afford this - where do you think the money will come from to fund this. Librarians and library assistants are already on the chopping block and that's just to keep the status quo.

If this petition were asking to make everyone's class size smaller, then I agree it would be not sensible. But that's not what it asks for. People don't realize that there is a VERY wide range of class sizes in Fairfax County. In elementary, there are classes as small as 12 and as large as 35. What the petition asks for, in the context of an across-the-board class size increase that will cut many millions of dollars in costs, is protections for the kids that, year after year, get stuck in the very largest classes the county runs.
Separately - for those who talk about teacher quality being more important than class size, that is probably true up to a point. But it is also true that there are class sizes too big for even the most wonderful teacher in the world to teach properly. It's those classes - 29 five or six-year-olds to a class, 30 or 31 seven or eight-year-olds, 35 plus, (yes, that has happened!) 8-year-olds to a class - that the petition seeks to prevent any child or teacher from having to endure.

[Anonymous]

Since the majority of classes are already a fine (or even great) size in Fairfax County already, it should be doable to fix the small percentage of classes that are way too big. A decent class size is an educational basic. Nobody's asking for the moon - if I saw people asking for 20 kids per class in an affluent school, or something, I would think they were ridiculous. But nobody's asking for that. They just don't want their kid crammed in 30+ per class where they are literally touching elbows with the kid next to them and the teacher has little chance of giving individual attention to anyone consistently.

[Anonymous]

I would point out that the schools that are affluent and have large class sizes actually do very well, so I would question whether they need smaller class sizes if it means taking money from underperforming schools that, at present, have smaller class sizes. The budget these days seems to be a zero sum game, so if you add it somewhere, it will come from somewhere else. I think in the class size debate (as with most of these budget issues), it matters very much where the money would come from.

[Anonymous]

Principals have some discretion in how they disperse the classes. I think that the profiles for the schools should show the size of each class. If you look at the rations per school, it is usually 'okay".

[Anonymous]

Pay is better in Arlington and DC publics-so keep class sizes low and pay teachers more!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would point out that the schools that are affluent and have large class sizes actually do very well, so I would question whether they need smaller class sizes if it means taking money from underperforming schools that, at present, have smaller class sizes. The budget these days seems to be a zero sum game, so if you add it somewhere, it will come from somewhere else. I think in the class size debate (as with most of these budget issues), it matters very much where the money would come from.

First let me say I've never read the forums on this site before the past couple days but I am impressed with the thoughtfulness and politeness of the people on here! Class size is kind of a big hairy beast for such a big and diverse school system isn't it? In response to the above poster, I would just say there are many more factors in smart education policy other than the metrics of standardized tests. Those don't measure whether a child reaches his/her full potential - maybe those kids could achieve even more if their classes weren't so crowded. I've heard many a parent say that in a big class it's the lowest and highest achievers who get the attention and that children in the middle of the pack lose out. So maybe they hit their benchmarks at a nice average level but what about that loss of potential? It's not fair to say to them that they don't get to reach their highest potential, right?
And what about gradual loss of teacher talent - also not measured in those standardized tests. I have a specific wonderful new teacher in mind who is amazing but saddled with a huge class for the 2nd year. I can see if this keeps up that she will not be able to keep her standards where they are over the long term with the kind of class-size-related stress she wades through to get to the actual teaching.

Sorry to be so long here but another thought: if, as long as the metrics look good, class size should be raised and raised, when do you stop? How big is too big? 35? 40? At some point the size itself, the size of the room, (kids report trouble concentrating from noise and close physical proximity, and at Wolftrap I have heard they even put in a "coping couch" in the hall for kids to escape stress of the classroom) and just the ability of a teacher to control for noise and behavior makes the class size not doable. And what about things like FLES? How can you effectively teach foreign language to 30+ young kids at once? Class sizes should be pulled under control first before anyone attempts to teach a language, otherwise in the big classes FLES is not a good use of funds.

For the research: from what I've heard about the research, few if any studies look at class sizes around the 30 mark and above. Has anyone heard otherwise? I don't think you can extrapolate from a study using smaller sizes, and apply those results to other higher sizes.
And then finally - to end on a positive note! FCPS needs to find a way to be innovative enough and cost-effective enough to find some solution for the small percentage of oversize classes without taking from the schools with high numbers of needy kids to accomplish it. I just can't believe the only way to fix oversize classes (for the relatively few kids enduring it) is to take from schools with tons of needy kids. I believe FCPS will find a way - I'm impressed with the new leadership in Karen Garza!

[Anonymous]

PP, I hope you're right that they can find another way. My only point was that it is easy to sign petitions and demand the moon, but you have to fund the research and the rocket to get there. I'd hate for the school board to give in to the loudest voices and make a bad policy choice. I agree that the middle gets lost (frankly, I have a kid at the middle to the top of a non-AAP class and my child is not at all challenged much of the time because our school has a lot of ESOL kids who need the attention and I agree that kids who need the extra attention should get it even at the expense of my own child, who I enrich on the side).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, I hope you're right that they can find another way. My only point was that it is easy to sign petitions and demand the moon, but you have to fund the research and the rocket to get there. I'd hate for the school board to give in to the loudest voices and make a bad policy choice. I agree that the middle gets lost (frankly, I have a kid at the middle to the top of a non-AAP class and my child is not at all challenged much of the time because our school has a lot of ESOL kids who need the attention and I agree that kids who need the extra attention should get it even at the expense of my own child, who I enrich on the side).

Oh I agree with you on it's easy to make the demand and we don't want bad policy just to respond to the squeakiest wheels! What I'm hoping is that leaders won't see the petition as asking for the moon, really, since it's not asking for small, small classes, it just wants to prevent the huge ones.
And that in terms of the process, how I see it working well is that the "demand" for caps alerts leaders that there is a serious issue, and then the policy response from leaders will not be just blindly giving in to the demand of caps, but will actually be something more nuanced, flexible and cost-effective - but high-quality, too. After all that part is their job - to craft the policy! Parents who have made their voices heard by signing the petition, speaking at the listening tours, testifying, and forwarding their many ideas and thoughts to leaders, have done their part. Now it's time for the leaders to thoughtfully and wisely respond!