Graduates from low-performing D.C. schools face tough college road

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) This isn't new news people!
2) I absolutely don't believe the story about the Wilson kid. I know too many kids - children of educated professionals who have gone on to graduate from well-regarded colleges - who have gone through Wilson and, while I've never asked about the length of their papers, I've never heard any complaint about the lack of preparedness from Wilson.

I keep reading that Wilson is an option for HS but never see any numbers like avg SAT scores and where recent grads go to college. Any links?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a serious disconnect all around. As a previous poster noted, not only are kids ending up woefully unprepared for college, they are ending up woefully unprepared for the job market and many other things after high school. In adult life there are many skills needed regardless of whether you go on to college or not - basic math and English proficiency for one, but also a basic sense of responsibility and self-discipline - showing up where you're supposed to be on time, being organized, following instruction, getting your stuff done on time, patience and so on. Many of the kids that do make it into college are a complete mess - they need a lot of remedial coursework to get up to speed, and don't at all have that sense of responsibility and self-discipline to keep it together and get things done - and the same goes for those who don't go to college and instead go straight into the job market. That second set of soft skills is too often overlooked and in turn adversely impacts the core academic skills.

What should high schools be doing to instill this basic sense of responsibility & self-discipline? Hold them back a year? Make them repeat classes? Not give second chances to make up missed work or failed tests?

Poster who wrote about the unprepared high school student here. I think it has to start much younger and involve whole families. Mandatory pre-k and more Head Start like programs that involve parents. More anti-poverty programs focused on getting and keeping the parents in the work force. Educating the parents so that they're better at educating the kids in the basic skills of life.

The kid I work with has a sense of responsibility - although she does some typically bone-headed teen stuff now and then but not any worse than what my dd did in high school. She was also held back a year in elementary school. But according to the reading specialist I have working with her now, she never learned the basic skills of reading so she has spent a lot of time guessing at words. And as I noted before, she has a hard time coming up with an independent thought because it basically hasn't been required of her by the school.

But here's the thing - her parents, while having made many mistakes at various times in their lives, have always insisted she go to school and she go to tutoring. But they're not going to go to the school and demand that they give her the help she needs. They don't have that sense of entitlement that comes with being an upper middle class professional and they also are not really in a position to help the kid find work after she graduates from high school.

Think about the things you teach your own kids - for example, we talked to dd a lot about what kinds of research she should do on colleges before making a decision and what was important to emphasize in applying to college. We talk to her about what she needs to do in order to find a summer job. BTW it's also clear that she has an edge getting a summer job because she's an upper middle class educated white kid in DC. We also emphasize the importance of thinking independently, evaluating evidence, making an argument and supporting that argument with specific facts - skills that are highly valued in the professional classes.

But poor and working class kids are not often getting that from their families or from their schools - so even the kids who follow all the rules, do their homework, and don't make waves have a hard time competing when they get to college.

I disagree. I was raised by a single mom, we were dirt poor. And I'm a perfect example of a kid who followed (most of) the rules, but who worked hard and made it through college. Mere fact of being poor or working class is not the barrier. The barrier to leap over is a function of how hard you are willing to work for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[
I disagree. I was raised by a single mom, we were dirt poor. And I'm a perfect example of a kid who followed (most of) the rules, but who worked hard and made it through college. Mere fact of being poor or working class is not the barrier. The barrier to leap over is a function of how hard you are willing to work for it.

You are a perfect example of an exception to the rule. Occasionally there are kids from the most wealthy, educated, refined families who screw up, but it's rare.

Class is not a guarantee of educational outcome, but it sure is a good indicator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) This isn't new news people!
2) I absolutely don't believe the story about the Wilson kid. I know too many kids - children of educated professionals who have gone on to graduate from well-regarded colleges - who have gone through Wilson and, while I've never asked about the length of their papers, I've never heard any complaint about the lack of preparedness from Wilson.

I keep reading that Wilson is an option for HS but never see any numbers like avg SAT scores and where recent grads go to college. Any links?

Don't have a link, but the graduation program will list the colleges kids are going to.

As for SATs and AP scores, Wilson, like most schools, keeps that info close to the vest. The principal knows the AP scores but might not even tell the teachers. The aggregate scores come out later in the summer. You can bet most of the high scores are from Wilson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a serious disconnect all around. As a previous poster noted, not only are kids ending up woefully unprepared for college, they are ending up woefully unprepared for the job market and many other things after high school. In adult life there are many skills needed regardless of whether you go on to college or not - basic math and English proficiency for one, but also a basic sense of responsibility and self-discipline - showing up where you're supposed to be on time, being organized, following instruction, getting your stuff done on time, patience and so on. Many of the kids that do make it into college are a complete mess - they need a lot of remedial coursework to get up to speed, and don't at all have that sense of responsibility and self-discipline to keep it together and get things done - and the same goes for those who don't go to college and instead go straight into the job market. That second set of soft skills is too often overlooked and in turn adversely impacts the core academic skills.

What should high schools be doing to instill this basic sense of responsibility & self-discipline? Hold them back a year? Make them repeat classes? Not give second chances to make up missed work or failed tests?

Poster who wrote about the unprepared high school student here. I think it has to start much younger and involve whole families. Mandatory pre-k and more Head Start like programs that involve parents. More anti-poverty programs focused on getting and keeping the parents in the work force. Educating the parents so that they're better at educating the kids in the basic skills of life.

The kid I work with has a sense of responsibility - although she does some typically bone-headed teen stuff now and then but not any worse than what my dd did in high school. She was also held back a year in elementary school. But according to the reading specialist I have working with her now, she never learned the basic skills of reading so she has spent a lot of time guessing at words. And as I noted before, she has a hard time coming up with an independent thought because it basically hasn't been required of her by the school.

But here's the thing - her parents, while having made many mistakes at various times in their lives, have always insisted she go to school and she go to tutoring. But they're not going to go to the school and demand that they give her the help she needs. They don't have that sense of entitlement that comes with being an upper middle class professional and they also are not really in a position to help the kid find work after she graduates from high school.

Think about the things you teach your own kids - for example, we talked to dd a lot about what kinds of research she should do on colleges before making a decision and what was important to emphasize in applying to college. We talk to her about what she needs to do in order to find a summer job. BTW it's also clear that she has an edge getting a summer job because she's an upper middle class educated white kid in DC. We also emphasize the importance of thinking independently, evaluating evidence, making an argument and supporting that argument with specific facts - skills that are highly valued in the professional classes.

But poor and working class kids are not often getting that from their families or from their schools - so even the kids who follow all the rules, do their homework, and don't make waves have a hard time competing when they get to college.

I disagree. I was raised by a single mom, we were dirt poor. And I'm a perfect example of a kid who followed (most of) the rules, but who worked hard and made it through college. Mere fact of being poor or working class is not the barrier. The barrier to leap over is a function of how hard you are willing to work for it.

Before you break your hand from patting yourself on the back for bootstrapping, let's acknowledge that poverty and a single parent are used as shorthand for why children struggle but really the are just common signifies for children who are growing up with significant stress such as insufficient food, exposure to violence, sex abuse, drugs, being neglected. So I agree being poor is not a barrier to sucess but having a stable home life with a caring parent will give kids a huge advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What did you think of today's new WashPo article? Even Wilson sounds unchallenging.

Affirmative Action sucks.

[Anonymous]

Can someone with a kid at Wilson please post and reassure these folks that it is rigorous enough?

[Anonymous]

Yes, you worked hard, 18:22. But lots of people work hard and don't make it as far as you. As an aging citizen who's concerned about the future of this country, I don't believe that we will make it if we rely on the small group of people who both worked very hard and avoided bad luck (eg, learning disabilities, drug addiction, or child abuse, to name a few things that could be devastating setbacks for most people). We need more than a few exemplars like you. There's a lot of average kids out there who are struggling and it is in our interest to make sure they are educated and employed rather than homeless, walking the streets, or dealing drugs. Pure pragmatism on my part, I assure you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can someone with a kid at Wilson please post and reassure these folks that it is rigorous enough?

I hope someone will do that. Meanwhile, don't take so much to heart what you read in the paper. Just because it's in black and white on the front page of the Washington Post doesn't mean it's gospel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a serious disconnect all around. As a previous poster noted, not only are kids ending up woefully unprepared for college, they are ending up woefully unprepared for the job market and many other things after high school. In adult life there are many skills needed regardless of whether you go on to college or not - basic math and English proficiency for one, but also a basic sense of responsibility and self-discipline - showing up where you're supposed to be on time, being organized, following instruction, getting your stuff done on time, patience and so on. Many of the kids that do make it into college are a complete mess - they need a lot of remedial coursework to get up to speed, and don't at all have that sense of responsibility and self-discipline to keep it together and get things done - and the same goes for those who don't go to college and instead go straight into the job market. That second set of soft skills is too often overlooked and in turn adversely impacts the core academic skills.

What should high schools be doing to instill this basic sense of responsibility & self-discipline? Hold them back a year? Make them repeat classes? Not give second chances to make up missed work or failed tests?

Poster who wrote about the unprepared high school student here. I think it has to start much younger and involve whole families. Mandatory pre-k and more Head Start like programs that involve parents. More anti-poverty programs focused on getting and keeping the parents in the work force. Educating the parents so that they're better at educating the kids in the basic skills of life.

The kid I work with has a sense of responsibility - although she does some typically bone-headed teen stuff now and then but not any worse than what my dd did in high school. She was also held back a year in elementary school. But according to the reading specialist I have working with her now, she never learned the basic skills of reading so she has spent a lot of time guessing at words. And as I noted before, she has a hard time coming up with an independent thought because it basically hasn't been required of her by the school.

But here's the thing - her parents, while having made many mistakes at various times in their lives, have always insisted she go to school and she go to tutoring. But they're not going to go to the school and demand that they give her the help she needs. They don't have that sense of entitlement that comes with being an upper middle class professional and they also are not really in a position to help the kid find work after she graduates from high school.

Think about the things you teach your own kids - for example, we talked to dd a lot about what kinds of research she should do on colleges before making a decision and what was important to emphasize in applying to college. We talk to her about what she needs to do in order to find a summer job. BTW it's also clear that she has an edge getting a summer job because she's an upper middle class educated white kid in DC. We also emphasize the importance of thinking independently, evaluating evidence, making an argument and supporting that argument with specific facts - skills that are highly valued in the professional classes.

But poor and working class kids are not often getting that from their families or from their schools - so even the kids who follow all the rules, do their homework, and don't make waves have a hard time competing when they get to college.

I disagree. I was raised by a single mom, we were dirt poor. And I'm a perfect example of a kid who followed (most of) the rules, but who worked hard and made it through college. Mere fact of being poor or working class is not the barrier. The barrier to leap over is a function of how hard you are willing to work for it.

Before you break your hand from patting yourself on the back for bootstrapping, let's acknowledge that poverty and a single parent are used as shorthand for why children struggle but really the are just common signifies for children who are growing up with significant stress such as insufficient food, exposure to violence, sex abuse, drugs, being neglected. So I agree being poor is not a barrier to sucess but having a stable home life with a caring parent will give kids a huge advantage.

At what point does the community get involved and condemn the violence, sex abuse, drugs, neglect, poor parenting, et cetera? The exact opposite is what's out there, these low income kids are plugged into lyrics in fact glorifying all the wrong things - thug life, violence, crime, drugs, misogyny, and irresponsibility. They are basically being programmed into a self-perpetuating cycle of all the wrong things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[
I disagree. I was raised by a single mom, we were dirt poor. And I'm a perfect example of a kid who followed (most of) the rules, but who worked hard and made it through college. Mere fact of being poor or working class is not the barrier. The barrier to leap over is a function of how hard you are willing to work for it.

You are a perfect example of an exception to the rule. Occasionally there are kids from the most wealthy, educated, refined families who screw up, but it's rare.

Class is not a guarantee of educational outcome, but it sure is a good indicator.

Class is waved around as an excuse, as though low-SES students are somehow physiologically incapable of learning the same skills that anyone else can.

[Anonymous]

I don't think SES is waived around as an excuse, but if your family history and trajectory is missing some key pieces (stable employment, college attendance, safe neighborhood, stable family structure) its more difficult to overcome and be successful - you have to work that much harder, without any guide on how to do so. And there is no magic bullet to makeup for it.

The "community" has condemned all of the negative aspects and behaviors going on - but you have to understand that our voice and opinion doesn't have any sway or impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't think SES is waived around as an excuse, but if your family history and trajectory is missing some key pieces (stable employment, college attendance, safe neighborhood, stable family structure) its more difficult to overcome and be successful - you have to work that much harder, without any guide on how to do so. And there is no magic bullet to makeup for it.

The "community" has condemned all of the negative aspects and behaviors going on - but you have to understand that our voice and opinion doesn't have any sway or impact.

Really? Then how Bill Cosby is dissed any time he tries to encourage the black community to pull themselves up???

[Anonymous]

19:48, maybe diversity sucks more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
At what point does the community get involved and condemn the violence, sex abuse, drugs, neglect, poor parenting, et cetera? The exact opposite is what's out there, these low income kids are plugged into lyrics in fact glorifying all the wrong things - thug life, violence, crime, drugs, misogyny, and irresponsibility. They are basically being programmed into a self-perpetuating cycle of all the wrong things.

DCPS response has been to make good teachers the sole cure for overcoming the many negative effects of poverty and bad teachers the reason these effects continue.

How has the "community" responded? Hard to tell. There's complaining about how reform has not worked, but I don't see parents taking action about it. In other cities, parents are rising up against standardized testing. Don't see that happening here.