So you are King of FCPS AAP for a day . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The AAP center is so removed that high level learners in GE do not have an option to reach higher. Unless, of course, they are deemed "eligible" by a special board, during a select time of year and move out of their base school. An exhausting process much like "government red tape" and quite frankly a waste of time and resourses.

Why is FCPS deciding in 2nd grade that a select few children are "out of the box thinkers" and worthy of a better education and advanced course work for the rest of their primary education? This is wrong. Most FCPS students could be successful with the AAP center curriculum so why are only a select few receiving it? I am not speaking for the "genius" level students (about 1%) they need a select level of learning. I am talking about the vast majority of the AAP center kids who are smart but not in need of a separate school and are not in need of "automatic" advanced placement. What ever happened to earning your "grade" to be in advanced placement? Placing a child in an "advanced" curriculum in 2nd grade is, of course, going to give them an advantage in later years. But the AAP center as it is now is so biased, discriminatory, and not affording many smart kids, who are not in the center, the same opportunity at a better education. FCPS LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD! I swear this is grounds for a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Couldn't agree more.

I disagree. Parents are free to refer their child in any year up to 8th grade. How is that grounds for a lawsuit? If there were grounds for a suit, it would be from historically underrepresented groups who may not be able to afford private testing, not middle class Caucasians. And since the Young Scholars program is intended to identify students from underrepresented populations, I still don't see what the grounds for a lawsuit would be.

The lawsuit would be for unequal treatment in the schools. Those in the AAP Center/Local Level IV get fulltime services. They are provided access to the advanced curriculum and provided the opportunity to work ahead. Those in general education are not provided access to the advanced curriculum and cannot work ahead. Many of the students in general education are capable of learning the advanced curriculum. It's really unfair that only a certain group of students has access and resources devoted towards them when those same resources would benefit children in the excluded group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The AAP center is so removed that high level learners in GE do not have an option to reach higher. Unless, of course, they are deemed "eligible" by a special board, during a select time of year and move out of their base school. An exhausting process much like "government red tape" and quite frankly a waste of time and resourses.

Why is FCPS deciding in 2nd grade that a select few children are "out of the box thinkers" and worthy of a better education and advanced course work for the rest of their primary education? This is wrong. Most FCPS students could be successful with the AAP center curriculum so why are only a select few receiving it? I am not speaking for the "genius" level students (about 1%) they need a select level of learning. I am talking about the vast majority of the AAP center kids who are smart but not in need of a separate school and are not in need of "automatic" advanced placement. What ever happened to earning your "grade" to be in advanced placement? Placing a child in an "advanced" curriculum in 2nd grade is, of course, going to give them an advantage in later years. But the AAP center as it is now is so biased, discriminatory, and not affording many smart kids, who are not in the center, the same opportunity at a better education. FCPS LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD! I swear this is grounds for a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Couldn't agree more.

I disagree. Parents are free to refer their child in any year up to 8th grade. How is that grounds for a lawsuit? If there were grounds for a suit, it would be from historically underrepresented groups who may not be able to afford private testing, not middle class Caucasians. And since the Young Scholars program is intended to identify students from underrepresented populations, I still don't see what the grounds for a lawsuit would be.

The lawsuit would be for unequal treatment in the schools. Those in the AAP Center/Local Level IV get fulltime services. They are provided access to the advanced curriculum and provided the opportunity to work ahead. Those in general education are not provided access to the advanced curriculum and cannot work ahead. Many of the students in general education are capable of learning the advanced curriculum. It's really unfair that only a certain group of students has access and resources devoted towards them when those same resources would benefit children in the excluded group.

but it would have to be unequal due to some prohibited basis like race, gender, national origin. Simply alleging "unequal treatment" doesn't even state a claim. A lawsuit like that would be dismissed faster than shit through a goose.

[Anonymous]

There seems to be some idealizing of what goes on at AAP centers. They are not some magical wonder worlds of intellectual freedom. The program is diluted, and the curriculum is not challenging, or particularly advanced, though the math is a year ahead. The kids are extremely limited, for the most part, in what they get to do, because the teacher has to make sure to spend a lot of time on SOL stuff. What they are is basically tracking for above-average students. AAP centers should be open only to highly gifted students, who benefit by special ed programs as much as students at the other end of the spectrum do.

We should concentrate more on improving the general ed. program and tracking and sorting students within it, so that everyone gets challenged.

[Anonymous]

The lawsuit would be for unequal treatment in the schools. Those in the AAP Center/Local Level IV get fulltime services. They are provided access to the advanced curriculum and provided the opportunity to work ahead. Those in general education are not provided access to the advanced curriculum and cannot work ahead. Many of the students in general education are capable of learning the advanced curriculum. It's really unfair that only a certain group of students has access and resources devoted towards them when those same resources would benefit children in the excluded group.

FYI, gifted education is mandated by the stare of Virginia.

Fairfax County Public Schools has one of the most comprehensive gifted programs in the entire nation, and delivers gifted services to so many students at so many levels far beyond what most school districts in this country do.

They offer this service to such a large number of kids. If they miss a small number, that is to be expected. How on earth is this lawsuit worthy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you are King (or Queen) of FCPS Advanced Academic Programs for a day . . . what would you do?

Would you close all the AAP Centers?

Would you put AAP Centers in every school?

Would you make all the kids get retested and only allow in the top 5% of students?

Something else?

What would you do?

I would make sure that the AAP Levels (Level 2, Level 3, Local Level 4 and Level 4 Centers) are the same at each school. Reading the posts on this board it seems pretty clear that, for example, Level 3 at one school is not the same as Level 3 at another school.

[Anonymous]

I would invalidate any test scores from students sent to those Asian test-prep "camps" or prepped at home using specific test prep workbooks.

[Anonymous]

Go back to the 70s and group kids by ability. Get rid of tracking based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would eliminate appeals completely

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go back to the 70s and group kids by ability. Get rid of tracking based on race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you are King (or Queen) of FCPS Advanced Academic Programs for a day . . . what would you do?

Would you close all the AAP Centers?

Would you put AAP Centers in every school?

Would you make all the kids get retested and only allow in the top 5% of students?

Something else?

What would you do?

I would make sure that the AAP Levels (Level 2, Level 3, Local Level 4 and Level 4 Centers) are the same at each school. Reading the posts on this board it seems pretty clear that, for example, Level 3 at one school is not the same as Level 3 at another school.

I disagree. First of all, there are 130 odd ES schools in Fairfax County. Coordinating it, above setting guidelines and benchmarks, would be difficult. Secondly, schools within Fairfax County are quite diverse and have different needs. The same thing won't work in every school. Some schools do not have enough children to warrant LLIV, so a center based system would work better for them. Others have plenty, so LLIV would work better for them. I do think LII and LIII should be beefed up.

An example of different things work differently: School 1: Has enough children for 1 1/2 LLIV classes, but can fill the 1/2 with different LIII students in each core class. The LLIV get varied classmates and the LIII students get AAP in the core classes in which they excel. School 2: (3 miles down the road) Not enough students for one class even with LIII students. LLIV students go to Center based school, LIII math students take math with the grade above them. In 6th grade have small group math with Special Ed teacher in daily pul out session, Gen Ed teacher gives them more complicated homework in other core classes. (Eg. higher level book in book group)

[Anonymous]

Go back to more stringent requirements so that only 3-5% are in Centers. That would allow the Centers to meet the needs of the gifted who they were historically designed for and would take care of overcrowding and hurt feelings among the non-AAP students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go back to more stringent requirements so that only 3-5% are in Centers. That would allow the Centers to meet the needs of the gifted who they were historically designed for and would take care of overcrowding and hurt feelings among the non-AAP students.

The gifted (IQ 130 and above) should be served with a more challenging curriculum, as they would be elsewhere in the country, regardless of the total percentage in our highly educated area. Perhaps more and more are moving into the area, hearing of the strength of our program. I have read on these boards that people are coming even from other countries for the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you are King (or Queen) of FCPS Advanced Academic Programs for a day . . . what would you do?

Would you close all the AAP Centers?

Would you put AAP Centers in every school?

Would you make all the kids get retested and only allow in the top 5% of students?

Something else?

What would you do?

I would make sure that the AAP Levels (Level 2, Level 3, Local Level 4 and Level 4 Centers) are the same at each school. Reading the posts on this board it seems pretty clear that, for example, Level 3 at one school is not the same as Level 3 at another school.

I disagree. First of all, there are 130 odd ES schools in Fairfax County. Coordinating it, above setting guidelines and benchmarks, would be difficult. Secondly, schools within Fairfax County are quite diverse and have different needs. The same thing won't work in every school. Some schools do not have enough children to warrant LLIV, so a center based system would work better for them. Others have plenty, so LLIV would work better for them. I do think LII and LIII should be beefed up.

An example of different things work differently: School 1: Has enough children for 1 1/2 LLIV classes, but can fill the 1/2 with different LIII students in each core class. The LLIV get varied classmates and the LIII students get AAP in the core classes in which they excel. School 2: (3 miles down the road) Not enough students for one class even with LIII students. LLIV students go to Center based school, LIII math students take math with the grade above them. In 6th grade have small group math with Special Ed teacher in daily pul out session, Gen Ed teacher gives them more complicated homework in other core classes. (Eg. higher level book in book group)

I agree that each school is different and, especially for Level IV -- both the Local Level IV approach and the Level IV Center approach -- it will be dependent upon the number of students. There are some schools that have 2+ classes of Level IV Center eligible students and these students really do not need to be transported to a Level IV Center as they have the critical mass at their neighborhood school.

But for Level II and Level III (where there are a much higher number of students receiving services across the county) the services should be consistent from school to school. A student at School A that receives Level II services should not "only" be receiving a once-a-month pull-out session with the AART as compared to another student at School B that receives Level II services and has a once-a-week pull-out with the AART.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go back to more stringent requirements so that only 3-5% are in Centers. That would allow the Centers to meet the needs of the gifted who they were historically designed for and would take care of overcrowding and hurt feelings among the non-AAP students.

The gifted (IQ 130 and above) should be served with a more challenging curriculum, as they would be elsewhere in the country, regardless of the total percentage in our highly educated area. Perhaps more and more are moving into the area, hearing of the strength of our program. I have read on these boards that people are coming even from other countries for the program.

If we really do have a much higher percentage of gifted students here, then there is no need for a separate program. The whole point of GT/AAP was to provide educational services for children whose needs could not be met in the regular classroom. When the school population is 25-30% gifted, then the "regular" classroom is more likely to meet the needs of the gifted than five or ten years ago when only 10% were in the GT program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go back to more stringent requirements so that only 3-5% are in Centers. That would allow the Centers to meet the needs of the gifted who they were historically designed for and would take care of overcrowding and hurt feelings among the non-AAP students.

The gifted (IQ 130 and above) should be served with a more challenging curriculum, as they would be elsewhere in the country, regardless of the total percentage in our highly educated area. Perhaps more and more are moving into the area, hearing of the strength of our program. I have read on these boards that people are coming even from other countries for the program.

If we really do have a much higher percentage of gifted students here, then there is no need for a separate program. The whole point of GT/AAP was to provide educational services for children whose needs could not be met in the regular classroom. When the school population is 25-30% gifted, then the "regular" classroom is more likely to meet the needs of the gifted than five or ten years ago when only 10% were in the GT program.

That 25-30% is not the number of kids attending/qualifying for Level IV centers.

That number includes all the level II, III and local level IV kids that are having their needs met in the regular classroom.