St. Andrews Episcopal school and rigor

[Anonymous]

I hope things have changed over the last couple decades. As a former student (during the Bethesda days), I dealt with some of the current administration who were new teachers back then. Underneath their upright public facade lied a palatable dislike for students who didn't fit into their rigid mold. In his tribute to Joanne Beach, John Holden states he applied for the position Head of Upper School in 1986. In reality, he was hired as a 10th grade algebra 2 teacher and was given the aforementioned position in late 1989. Since it would be tactless to speak I'll of the dead, I won't go into the truth about Mrs. Beach. Holden was a very unlikeable person who demanded everything go the way he wanted and often shouted at students and faculty when they didn't. It is not a school for the individual or independent thinker. When I started, it was one of the best private schools in the D.C. area. Within a few years, the great teachers left and things went downhill fast.

[Anonymous]

If you are curious about college placement, go talk to the college counseling office. Last year had kids at Cornell, Penn, etc. it’s a great place and lovely community.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:20:17 is the type of parent/person that St. Andrew's is happy to avoid. Your experience is your own and St. Andrew's may not have been a good fit for your child but that does not mean very smart "top" kids don't go there. Perhaps the administrators at St. Andrew's knew that your parenting style was the type that they would rather avoid dealing with you and sent your child away. I cannot imagine any school would send away a bright kid. But they will send away parents whose egocentric attitudes are considered destructive and irritating rather than confident and forceful and beneficial to the school.

And about the kids and parents who go there not being motivated, what part of me making over 150K at 25 years old as an attorney with licenses before 2 states translates into unmotivated or academically weak? What, pray-tell, were you doing at 25? Were you on the moon? Were you CEO of a major corporation? Who knows but YOU ARE a tool. You know as well as every single person reading this that you would love for you child to succeed at whatever he or she does and if that happens to be as a lawyer, you know you want him/her to do what I did or clerk for SCOTUS. So whatever you think about your neighbors is irrelevant unless your entire parenting compass is keeping up with or surpassing the Jones of your neighborhood. Ugghhh--you disgust me. St. Andrew's dodged a bullet with you!

This is a little strange.

NP.

Not just strange, but embarrassing. Nobody with a strong educational background brags about being a member of the bar in 2 states (once you pass one, you can waive in) or making $150k as an associate (not even close to the market rate for 2nd tier firms in DC).

[Anonymous]

As an outsider, I find this thread interesting.

We are going to give SAES a closer look. We have multiple children and they have very different academic abilities. It would be refreshing to find a good school that could possibly work for them all. If that makes a school “less rigorous,” so be it. It’s nice to have well rounded kids and not everyone thrives in a pressure cooker environment.

Thanks to the alum/current parents for sharing your experiences.

[Anonymous]

I have heard that it’s trying to become more rigorous or to be perceived as more rigorous. People I know IRL who have direct experience there report mixed things. I think much may depend on the particular grade.

[Anonymous]

St. Andrews is a wonderful school community. As a parent with one student who graduated from a "Big 3" school, and one who graduated from St. Andrews, I can tell you that (legacies aside) BOTH schools sent kids to Ivys, BOTH schools sent kids to top 20 universities. The big difference? My St. Andrews grad had a much more balanced, holistically happy experience. While my "Big 3" grad was generally happy, the stress caused by what I perceive to be unnecessary homework was not worth it. They both ended up in wonderful places. I really do think it's important to find the school community that feels like a fit, and not look at a certain high school as a train ticket to an Ivy. It just doesn't work that way.

[Anonymous]

Surely no one sees any particular school as a train ticket to an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:St. Andrews is a wonderful school community. As a parent with one student who graduated from a "Big 3" school, and one who graduated from St. Andrews, I can tell you that (legacies aside) BOTH schools sent kids to Ivys, BOTH schools sent kids to top 20 universities. The big difference? My St. Andrews grad had a much more balanced, holistically happy experience. While my "Big 3" grad was generally happy, the stress caused by what I perceive to be unnecessary homework was not worth it. They both ended up in wonderful places. I really do think it's important to find the school community that feels like a fit, and not look at a certain high school as a train ticket to an Ivy. It just doesn't work that way.

Completely agree -- we, too, wish we had discovered St. Andrew's earlier so that both our kids could have gone there. I would only add that St. Andrew's teachers and college counselors are very impressive -- knowledgeable, nurturing and creative.

[Anonymous]

Parent of two recent graduates. Great school -- they figured out some years ago that they needed multiple levels of most courses in high school to appeal to its diverse range of students, and had that worked out well by the time my last one graduated in 2017. I have two bright kids who couldn't be more different in every other respect -- including study habits, social, athletics, art, interests, etc. - and St. Andrews worked great for both of them. And yes, they both landed in great universities and were well prepared.

Side note. I was fortunate enough to know Mr. Holden before he retired as the assistant head of the school. He was the heart and soul of St. Andrew's -- and a fabulous math teacher who challenged my kids in Algebra I and launched them through many years of math there and in college. Old fashion -- a bit -- but both my kids say that teaching them the importance of a firm handshake and looking someone in the eye has been of enormous value to them in life beyond high school. And he proved to be extremely accepting and flexible as he -- and much of the country -- has grown over the years with the times.

[Anonymous]

Another very happy family here. There's a wide range of learners from tippy top IQs to those with mixed abilities and some with LDs/ADHD, many of whom have high IQs but need smaller classes etc. They have figured out the "secret sauce" for a wide range of kids with varied abilities and interests in school and out without the insane pressure many kids find at the big 3. There are quite a few families and students who left the big 3 scene for SAES and are extremely pleased with the quality of education without the intense homework load/pressure of other local privates. One thing I've noticed is that a large number of HS parents are entrepreneurs/business owners.

[Anonymous]

Any pointers on trying to get in for 8th grade, which is not a typical entry year?

[Anonymous]

I also attended St. Andrews in the early 2000s. I went from 7th grade - 12th grade. I believe the school was the most rigorous school that I have ever attended. In my class, 7 students out of 70 went to Ivy League schools for undergrad. I did not go to Ivy League for undergrad, but I have went to Berkeley, Harvard, and Penn for grad school, law school, and doctoral work. I also received a fellowship from Yale following law school. I say that to say, that St. Andrews was FAR more rigorous than any of those schools. Many of the teachers that I had in the late 90s early 2000s are STILL at St Andrews, and the teachers that are still there were the best teachers back then. Kurt Sinclair is probably the best physics teacher in the area. Mr. Whitman and Mr. Haight are definitely some of the best history teachers in the area.

The flaw in the school in my opinion is in the College Counseling. Clearly they favor and pipeline people into small liberal arts colleges. So many of my classmates went to Kenyon, Oberlin, Bates, Colby etc. Most of my classmates did well on the SAT, one of the worse performing students scored 1220 without studying. If the College Counseling encouraged most students to apply to Ivies, then there would more acceptances. Also, grade deflation is a serious problem. I had below a 3.0 at St. Andrews, yet I had well above a 1300 on the SAT, a perfect score on 2 SAT II exams, and 5's on 3 AP Exams. The rigor of the school plus its comfort in sending kids to liberal arts colleges are actually its Achilles heel.

I'm working on my dissertation at Penn now, and I've wanted to email my history teachers because my dissertation isn't too much different of an assignment than the Oral History Project that must be completed in 11th grade.

My classmates have won Tony Awards and been nominated for Emmys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Levenson), starred on Sesame Street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitya_Vidyasagar), produced and starred in hit network sitcoms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitney_Cummings), and are star professors at MIT (Richard Bruhsett) (https://www.brushettresearchgroup.org/people-cyff).

SAES will likely never be able to recover from the reputational head starts of its competitors here in DC, but that has little to do with the rigor of the school. A paradigm shift in college counseling is needed. If a quarter of kids from Sidwell get into Ivies, I surmise that about 75 percent of the class applies to at least one. At St Andrews, about 10 percent of the class probably applies to one (I know I didn't apply to any), so the percentage of kids accepted is probably similar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The lack of a strong cohort is real; whether it is an issue for one's child is harder to judge. Watching over several years our K-8 exmissions to SAES high school, I noted:
(a) SAES was the safety school, and accepted nearly 100% of applicants from our school; (b) the strongest kids never go there; (c) most of the kids that go there are relatively weaker. Our child applied and the school was kind and welcoming, but also made it clear they would not be able to meet DC's needs at the top end. I also know kids from the neighborhood who go there (and their parents), and these are not academically strong or motivated kids. So while the parent posts above are written in a convincing manner, almost as if the writers were not just parents but also were administrators, this pablum of these posts just does not jibe with my first hand experience.

You kind of sound like a dick. No offense. Maybe you are an aspie with bad social skills. But you could have written this in a less assholish way. Just saying.

[Anonymous]

Wow, this thread was revived just in time to be helpful to us as we work with our DC applying out of a well regarded progressive terminal 8 into HS. SAES has been high on our list. Our school feeds the usual big 5, as well as Field & Burke. Our DC is Looking for a kinder, gentler environment while we as parents are looking for one that will allow for a different pace from the big 5 but still to launch to a selective undergrad program.

Each new discovery about SAES seems to indicate this may be the place. It is notable how this thread spans many years and for the most part highlights a profile of respect as well as academic and developmental programming enhancement. I honestly can’t think of another school that garners this kind of respect - on DCUM and in the real world. I’m impressed.

[Anonymous]

A family member sells high end academic software to both private and public schools in the DC area. This family member is very well educated. When we moved to the area a few years ago, and we were considering private school, this family member said St. Andrew's curriculum, community, and academic standards far surpassed other schools (both private and public) in MoCo. We would have applied, but could not afford the tuition. We are right on the cusp of being able to afford full tuition but also not qualifying for financial aid. It would be too much of a hardship. Anyway, this family member has visited a number of schools and highly recommended St. Andrews.