I have a problem with the definition of Rich

[Anonymous]

I guess since we make about $20333/month HHI. I would expect to bring home more than $11000/month.

[Anonymous]

I have a problem with the term "working families" since politicians seem to forget that many have to work to get the income. Not inheritance, not dividends, not trust funds.
http://acuteobservations.wordpress.com/2008/09/14/the-misnomer-of-working-families/

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/5/six-figure-income-qualifies-for-housing-aid-in-tys/?page=all

[Anonymous]

We have a HHI of about $190K with three kids. We both work and have to pay daycare/after school for public elementary.

We are without a doubt rich.

It's the big stuff..we live in a nice house in a safe neighborhood with good schools, but mainly the little stuff. When I was told that there was an extra $15 charge that I didn't know about for a girl scout outing, I paid it without worrying where that money would come from. When my daughter did something special yesterday and came home all excited, I was able to tell her that we would go out to her favorite restaurant (Silver Diner) to celebrate, and on a complete whim too the family out to dinner. When my winter coat lining tore, I bought a new one without checking my budget.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess since we make about $20333/month HHI. I would expect to bring home more than $11000/month.

We make $160K gross per year and net 70% of that (a little under $10K/month) after paying taxes and deductions for 401K, flexible spending, and healthcare premiums. You're saying you gross $90K more than my family and yet you only bring home $1K more each month?

How is this possible? Your marginal rate is at the most 5% higher than mine and we probably have similar deductions for dependents and mortgage interest. Are you maxing out your 401K's and flexible spending? That is a blessing - you should realize this. Many people will never be able to do that and have no idea if they can ever retire. And many Americans worry about paying for health care and have no money left over to put in a tax-free spending account.

[Anonymous]

Yes. That is what I am saying. I am a GS -14 and my H has a less paying job so he works a part-time job to get our income to this level.

I came to the monthly number by multiplying by 26 and dividing by 12.

I make 4700. I pay fegli, Medicare, retirement, state taxes, federal taxes, oasis, FSA, tsp

$25, $68, $38, $300, $665, $57, $195, $705

4700-2057=2647*2*26 then divide by 12 = $11453 ish

Actually I just realized I should add $123 to my monthly income due to what I get back from FSA. But sadly I just realized I forgot my H pays for our health plan so it means we actually bring home less. But this is just to give you an idea.

I am not complaining but I do think when people make less they think if only I had $500 more per month I would be set. I thought this when I was a GS-4. I am blessed to have a job with a retirement and a home and a car that starts most mornings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess since we make about $20333/month HHI. I would expect to bring home more than $11000/month.

We make $160K gross per year and net 70% of that (a little under $10K/month) after paying taxes and deductions for 401K, flexible spending, and healthcare premiums. You're saying you gross $90K more than my family and yet you only bring home $1K more each month?

How is this possible? Your marginal rate is at the most 5% higher than mine and we probably have similar deductions for dependents and mortgage interest. Are you maxing out your 401K's and flexible spending? That is a blessing - you should realize this. Many people will never be able to do that and have no idea if they can ever retire. And many Americans worry about paying for health care and have no money left over to put in a tax-free spending account.

[Anonymous]

Op, what work do you do? You mention your dh is school teacher. Tell us more.
You still have a high income for a school teacher family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. That is what I am saying. I am a GS -14 and my H has a less paying job so he works a part-time job to get our income to this level.

I came to the monthly number by multiplying by 26 and dividing by 12.

I make 4700. I pay fegli, Medicare, retirement, state taxes, federal taxes, oasis, FSA, tsp

$25, $68, $38, $300, $665, $57, $195, $705

4700-2057=2647*2*26 then divide by 12 = $11453 ish

Actually I just realized I should add $123 to my monthly income due to what I get back from FSA. But sadly I just realized I forgot my H pays for our health plan so it means we actually bring home less. But this is just to give you an idea.

I am not complaining but I do think when people make less they think if only I had $500 more per month I would be set. I thought this when I was a GS-4. I am blessed to have a job with a retirement and a home and a car that starts most mornings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess since we make about $20333/month HHI. I would expect to bring home more than $11000/month.

We make $160K gross per year and net 70% of that (a little under $10K/month) after paying taxes and deductions for 401K, flexible spending, and healthcare premiums. You're saying you gross $90K more than my family and yet you only bring home $1K more each month?

How is this possible? Your marginal rate is at the most 5% higher than mine and we probably have similar deductions for dependents and mortgage interest. Are you maxing out your 401K's and flexible spending? That is a blessing - you should realize this. Many people will never be able to do that and have no idea if they can ever retire. And many Americans worry about paying for health care and have no money left over to put in a tax-free spending account.

Okay, I'll lay off. We often wonder how we don't feel more free given what we make. But I am careful to never, ever complain. I come from a part of the country where people are really struggling. I just have no right. At least that's how I feel. I am sure as hell better able to absorb a tax increase than they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How about this, OP is not rich or wealthy -OP is 'upper middle class'. That is the term I always used. Not really in the middle, but certainly not at that rich level where you have a big house, fancy cars, and not too many cares. Those upper middle class folks (I would put myself in that category) certainly are not struggling and live a comparatively comfortable lifestyle, but are not so wealthy that you can tax them a lot more and not bring them back down into the middle class. that is what is going to happen here. if you increase the tax rate and take away deductions over $250 in high COL areas, you will just bring down more people into middle class. Rich will continue to be rich.
Why not adjust the 250k number for COL?

Because that's still inaccurate. The middle class is from the 25th to 75th percentile, e.g. the middle 50% of the earning population. The upper middle class is roughly the 60-75th percentiles. In the US, median HHI is around $50-60K. In the DC area, median HHI is about 75K in the district and about 90K in the suburbs. The 75th percentile HHI in the nation is probably around 100-125. In the DC area, that's probably about 125-175K. So, upper middle class even in this area would be about 125-175K. 250K is something like the top 5% of even the DC metro area. Yes, there are many thousands who make this, but you are talking thousands of HHI 250K and over in a metro area of millions. There is no way that you can reasonably call the 95th percentile upper middle class even if they don't feel that they have the buying power of the rich. The point is that OP lives in this area and has many, many choices and advantages that 90% of the metro area do not have.

For those people who feel that $250K is "middle class" please stop redefining the term. You can make up new terms to avoid calling yourselves rich, but the fact is that middle class and upper middle class are terms that are defined and trying to expand them to include those who have more does not help those who actually make middle class incomes.

In dc you are the middle class is if you make under 527k-616k
In the rest of the USA you are the middle class is if you make under 387k

"To be considered part of the 1 percent in this area, it takes a household income far above the national average of $387,000. The gateway for the region is $527,000. In the District, the top 1 percent of households bring in at least $617,000; in Montgomery County, more than $606,000; and in Fairfax County, $532,000, according to an analysis of census statistics by The Washington Post and Sentier Research, a firm that specializes in income data."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/joining-washingtons-one-percenters-takes-more-than-the-us-average/2012/04/21/gIQAJ6YvXT_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
In dc you are the middle class is if you make under 527k-616k
In the rest of the USA you are the middle class is if you make under 387k

"To be considered part of the 1 percent in this area, it takes a household income far above the national average of $387,000. The gateway for the region is $527,000. In the District, the top 1 percent of households bring in at least $617,000; in Montgomery County, more than $606,000; and in Fairfax County, $532,000, according to an analysis of census statistics by The Washington Post and Sentier Research, a firm that specializes in income data."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/joining-washingtons-one-percenters-takes-more-than-the-us-average/2012/04/21/gIQAJ6YvXT_story.html

So everything but the top 1% is middle class? Yes, the the 2 percenters are really struggling. And those top 3 percenters--it's a wonder their houses aren't all in foreclosure.

[Anonymous]

It isn't that everyone below the top 1% isn't middle class. They are not. It is that everyone says that the top 2-5% don't pay enough taxes and therefore should pay more. You don't get into the kind of weath where you don't pay high taxes until you get to that 1%. In areas like DC, your income does not go as far as other places, so you cannot accumulate the wealth that the tax code taxes at a lower rate (like cap gains from investments). You depend on mortgage interest deduction etc to lower your taxes otherwise you'll pay the full rate. Families in high COL areas still need those deductions etc - they are not undertaxed.

[Anonymous]

No, PP, that is what it takes to be in the TOP 1 PERCENT of all income earners. It is true that if you make those amounts you are no longer middle class. But it really is an extremely broad view of what constitutes the middle class if 98.99 percent of people count as the "middle" class. As one PP already said, that is simply inconsistent of the concept of describing the middle class of a society.

[Anonymous]

I have often wondered if I could cut my hours to a certain income and virtually have the same take home pay because we would be taxed at a different rate. Not sure how to figure that out. I know I don't have enough write offs because my tax preparer tells me every year. I also have not figured out how to spend more to pay less in taxes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. That is what I am saying. I am a GS -14 and my H has a less paying job so he works a part-time job to get our income to this level.

I came to the monthly number by multiplying by 26 and dividing by 12.

I make 4700. I pay fegli, Medicare, retirement, state taxes, federal taxes, oasis, FSA, tsp

$25, $68, $38, $300, $665, $57, $195, $705

4700-2057=2647*2*26 then divide by 12 = $11453 ish

Actually I just realized I should add $123 to my monthly income due to what I get back from FSA. But sadly I just realized I forgot my H pays for our health plan so it means we actually bring home less. But this is just to give you an idea.

I am not complaining but I do think when people make less they think if only I had $500 more per month I would be set. I thought this when I was a GS-4. I am blessed to have a job with a retirement and a home and a car that starts most mornings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess since we make about $20333/month HHI. I would expect to bring home more than $11000/month.

We make $160K gross per year and net 70% of that (a little under $10K/month) after paying taxes and deductions for 401K, flexible spending, and healthcare premiums. You're saying you gross $90K more than my family and yet you only bring home $1K more each month?

How is this possible? Your marginal rate is at the most 5% higher than mine and we probably have similar deductions for dependents and mortgage interest. Are you maxing out your 401K's and flexible spending? That is a blessing - you should realize this. Many people will never be able to do that and have no idea if they can ever retire. And many Americans worry about paying for health care and have no money left over to put in a tax-free spending account.

Okay, I'll lay off. We often wonder how we don't feel more free given what we make. But I am careful to never, ever complain. I come from a part of the country where people are really struggling. I just have no right. At least that's how I feel. I am sure as hell better able to absorb a tax increase than they are.

[Anonymous]

can i just say, there is a difference between making 200K and being able to spend freely, and then making 600K and not being able to.

Let me explain. Our family, makes 200K, we are a black, Silver Spring, MD family. Our DD goes to private school. We live in a 1600 sq SFH, and we both have a car that is paid off. So you see, we live within our means. yes things can be tight at times, but we don't try to live as if we earn 1M HHI. We dont. We are realistic when it comes to out finances, and we are therefore able to live comfortably. We have friends who live in Potomac in a 5000 sq house each with an expensive car, but they dont have 2 thin dimes to rub together because they do not live within their means.


So.. the reason that you may not "feel rich" is because 1. you aren't. and 2. you may not (and I dont know you and your finances so I cant judge) be living within what you can afford.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can i just say, there is a difference between making 200K and being able to spend freely, and then making 600K and not being able to.

Let me explain. Our family, makes 200K, we are a black, Silver Spring, MD family. Our DD goes to private school. We live in a 1600 sq SFH, and we both have a car that is paid off. So you see, we live within our means. yes things can be tight at times, but we don't try to live as if we earn 1M HHI. We dont. We are realistic when it comes to out finances, and we are therefore able to live comfortably. We have friends who live in Potomac in a 5000 sq house each with an expensive car, but they dont have 2 thin dimes to rub together because they do not live within their means.


So.. the reason that you may not "feel rich" is because 1. you aren't. and 2. you may not (and I dont know you and your finances so I cant judge) be living within what you can afford.

I agree. People are always trying to keep up with their neighbors by spending beer money on champagne.

The federal GS14 poster lamenting about her six figure salary when she is maxing out her retirement and child care deductions. She failed to add that $5000 deduction back into her salary tax free. In addition to her maxed out 457 TSP, she is guaranteed a defined benefit upon retirement. She is guaranteed a monetary step increase almost every year, with or without a COLA. No, you are not rich. Romney is rich, but you are financially well-off income wise. Most Americans would trade your woe as me salary and benefits in heart beat and gladly pay the extra $200 proposed tax increase. bTW, you won't get hit with the increase due to your AGI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:can i just say, there is a difference between making 200K and being able to spend freely, and then making 600K and not being able to.

Let me explain. Our family, makes 200K, we are a black, Silver Spring, MD family. Our DD goes to private school. We live in a 1600 sq SFH, and we both have a car that is paid off. So you see, we live within our means. yes things can be tight at times, but we don't try to live as if we earn 1M HHI. We dont. We are realistic when it comes to out finances, and we are therefore able to live comfortably. We have friends who live in Potomac in a 5000 sq house each with an expensive car, but they dont have 2 thin dimes to rub together because they do not live within their means.


So.. the reason that you may not "feel rich" is because 1. you aren't. and 2. you may not (and I dont know you and your finances so I cant judge) be living within what you can afford.

Not trying to start anything, but why did you feel the need to mention you are black?