I want a school without parents who want "pathways for advanced students"

[Anonymous]

With all due respect. Let's call a spade a spade with regards the general quality and depth of education of our public school teachers compared to other professions? What planet dost thou reside? We do respect teachers and what they are trying to do and it's quite alright to humor yourself. If many of you do not know basic and fundamental math and science, let alone adequately teach these subjects to primary aged students, how on earth can you claim being highly educated?

We get it. Your posts bleed the disdain you have for teachers. This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. That said, your opinion is not worth much to anyone working in public education policy or school reform. No matter how well-informed you'd like to believe you are.

[Anonymous]

I am assuming that "you" used by the PP meant teachers in general. I hope your self-righteous attitude is something you keep to yourself or are your children the rude ones teachers encounter in class every day? I am sorry that you and your children have encountered some less than stellar teachers. I have encountered some less than stellar lawyers, doctors, nurses, business owners, etc etc. Why did you subject children #2, 3 and 4 to such uneducated teachers? Perhaps you should've educated them yourself instead of just complaining. I have more education than many of my friends who are attorneys and they are paid handsomely for their education. I qualify for free preschool for my kids based on my income. I have a Master's degree plus and I am considered low income. Education is not valued in our country even though everyone says how important it is. Maybe we should look to Finland who recruit the very best students and then pay them very well to become teachers.

[Anonymous]

Don't worry we did as you suggest (as have many in our County). School is for socialization and meeting friends in the neighborhood. It is working out beautifully. They are all educated at home. They all claim their best days are recess and lunch -- so much for their ennui secondary to an up and down non challenging curriculum.

What we are doing is what many have resorted to? Lest you forget, the teachers and schools in Montgomery County benefit the most from the quality of the children (educational and professional levels of both parents) in the County and not the other way around. If you are savy enough, for many of these kids, their real education, sadly, isn't coming from your classrooms.

[Anonymous]

We get it. Your posts bleed the disdain you have for teachers. This is your opinion and you're entitled to it. That said, your opinion is not worth much to anyone working in public education policy or school reform. No matter how well-informed you'd like to believe you are.

No disdain for teachers. But, we have encountered some teachers with an overinflated opinion of the quality, breadth and depth of their education and expertise in math and science that borders on pathetic compared to some of our very capable area middle school students (self taught without the benefit of their teacher's all Ivy education). The only bleeding worthy of critical intensive care is not I but the public school system close to life support. This is where I suggest you focus your attention.

[Anonymous]

Oh great, teacher-bashing. Sigh.

Of course public school teachers are not part of the problem with our public schools. I wholeheartedly agree with the above teacher. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So, if you realize the education your 4 children received was crap, why, with all of your intelligence (not spelling ability) did you continue to send them to such substandard schools? I am an elementary teacher who went to a good university and received top grades and went on to an equally good school to get my Master's degree. We are quite limited by the curriculum and the pace of it. I'd love to delve deeper into many different topics that my students are interested in but cannot in most cases due to time. The pacing guides are quite ridiculous and leave me little time for much else. I also happen to teach the lowest ability learners so they need more repetition to learn most concepts. The higher ability classes are the ones with more time. Yes, there are problems in education but talk to most teachers and you will realize that they are all highly educated. I am a few classes away from my second Master's degree and many of my colleagues already have their second. In many cases, it isn't the teachers that are the problem. YOU are your child's first and most important teacher. Remember that and instead of complaining about how crappy their teachers are, work with them yourself. I taught my DS to read before he started school. he wouldn't learned to read in school but I knew I could help him.

With all due respect. Let's call a spade a spade with regards the general quality and depth of education of our public school teachers compared to other professions? What planet dost thou reside? We do respect teachers and what they are trying to do and it's quite alright to humor yourself. If many of you do not know basic and fundamental math and science, let alone adequately teach these subjects to primary aged students, how on earth can you claim being highly educated?

Again, WHERE is your source? If one of my HS students made such a statement, I'd ask him/her to cite a source - a credible one at that.

I love these sweeping generalizations that you enjoy making. I hope you realize that many teachers have degrees higher than a BS/BA. I work with several colleagues who have PhDs in their subject areas - English, science, and history.

However, a PhD does not a successful teacher make!

I don't care how many facts you know about the world from BC to AD. If you don't have the methods/strategies to impart that wisdom to a class of students, you are not fit to teach. I'd take a BS candidate with good rapport and a plethora of strategies to a PhD who can only share facts.

Go crawl back into your hole, PP. Your "advice" is worthless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Try dcps where its basically subsidized daycare and food with little emphasis on education.

That's where mcps is headed with foolish policy.

Some think MCPS has already arrived at this point.

+1

[Anonymous]

Again, WHERE is your source? If one of my HS students made such a statement, I'd ask him/her to cite a source - a credible one at that.

I love these sweeping generalizations that you enjoy making. I hope you realize that many teachers have degrees higher than a BS/BA. I work with several colleagues who have PhDs in their subject areas - English, science, and history.

However, a PhD does not a successful teacher make! I don't care how many facts you know about the world from BC to AD. If you don't have the methods/strategies to impart that wisdom to a class of students, you are not fit to teach. I'd take a BS candidate with good rapport and a plethora of strategies to a PhD who can only share facts.

Go crawl back into your hole, PP. Your "advice" is worthless.

You may be right but give me the freedom to take my chances with a PhD in the subject material rather than a "certificate for teaching" person attempting to teach a subject clearly in over his or her head or realm of expertise.

Unfortunately, some teachers seem to forget that parents have every right to expect and demand qualified teaching services for their children. Many teachers forget parents are shareholders in the $2 billion/year enterprise or firm that is called MCPS. You had better believe, someday, as a teacher you may be held accountable to the shareholders...or you may be out of work. Don't forget this. This relationship happens in all other sectors of the American economy.

[Anonymous]

Yikes! This is so unpleasant.
A couple of points:
1. The GT thread (discussing Starr's forum and MCPS policy) did not in my opinion attack teachers. The parents there were focused primarily on MCPS policy and school administration (from Starr down to inflexible principals). There was nothing on that thread about teachers.
I personally do not have a problem with the quality of teaching in MCPS although I have heard on good authority that teachers are not specifically trained (at university) to teach gifted children and that might be an area to address.
I will say however, that often when people post about GT concerns, they seem to incite a post from someone who says something like "oh you parents who think your kids are so special make me sick. You just want your kids to get A's and you whine and email the teacher constantly with requests/complaints". I have often wondered whether this person is a teacher, in which case I pray my child never ends up in her class. I will also say that I believe this person(s) if a teacher is not representative of a MCPS teacher.

2. For the parents/teachers who are criticizing parents who are advocating for "pathways for advanced students", some of you seem to imply that if 40% of students are labeled as "gifted" by MCPS, perhaps these children are just barely above average and don't need any academic support. Others on this thread have called us a "vocal minority" which presumably means our concerns can be dismissed or ignored easily. Well, which is it?
In my opinion, most of the parents who were posting on the GT thread had children who were performing (as evidenced by MAP-R scores or Math assessment scores perhaps) several grade levels above grade. I have no idea how many children like this exist in MCPS (maybe 10%?) but I am willing to bet they did not all qualify for the too limited magnet spots.
They may be a minority but they are not an insignificant minority and their needs should be taken seriously. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[Anonymous]

Yikes! This is so unpleasant.
A couple of points:
1. The GT thread (discussing Starr's forum and MCPS policy) did not in my opinion attack teachers. The parents there were focused primarily on MCPS policy and school administration (from Starr down to inflexible principals). There was nothing on that thread about teachers.
I personally do not have a problem with the quality of teaching in MCPS although I have heard on good authority that teachers are not specifically trained (at university) to teach gifted children and that might be an area to address.
I will say however, that often when people post about GT concerns, they seem to incite a post from someone who says something like "oh you parents who think your kids are so special make me sick. You just want your kids to get A's and you whine and email the teacher constantly with requests/complaints". I have often wondered whether this person is a teacher, in which case I pray my child never ends up in her class. I will also say that I believe this person(s) if a teacher is not representative of a MCPS teacher.

2. For the parents/teachers who are criticizing parents who are advocating for "pathways for advanced students", some of you seem to imply that if 40% of students are labeled as "gifted" by MCPS, perhaps these children are just barely above average and don't need any academic support. Others on this thread have called us a "vocal minority" which presumably means our concerns can be dismissed or ignored easily. Well, which is it?
In my opinion, most of the parents who were posting on the GT thread had children who were performing (as evidenced by MAP-R scores or Math assessment scores perhaps) several grade levels above grade. I have no idea how many children like this exist in MCPS (maybe 10%?) but I am willing to bet they did not all qualify for the too limited magnet spots.
They may be a minority but they are not an insignificant minority and their needs should be taken seriously. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

If you are referring some PP. Your premise does not apply. I am not referring to "GT" or "gifted" or "magnet" kids. My reference is to regular garden variety MCPS schools. I believe shareholders --- parents and kids--(Property, State and Federal tax payers of their salary and benefits) should hold teachers accountable to providing a challenging education for all our children. When you take away potential pathways you are failing in your mission and many of our kids are stuck in a quagmire. MCPS consumes $2 billion/yr of our investment. I gather you disagree with this?

PS: Simply ask the kids in your classrooms. Teachers love to hand out the grades (stick vs carrot). In many other sectors this evaluation can be a 2 way street. I think we all would be surprised if we read the evaluations of the teaching going on from the students themselves.

Do you routinely have your students evaluate your own teaching performance? All MCPS teachers should do this to get feedback (anonymously, of course, since teachers are not immune from bias and future retribution).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Again, WHERE is your source? If one of my HS students made such a statement, I'd ask him/her to cite a source - a credible one at that.

I love these sweeping generalizations that you enjoy making. I hope you realize that many teachers have degrees higher than a BS/BA. I work with several colleagues who have PhDs in their subject areas - English, science, and history.

However, a PhD does not a successful teacher make! I don't care how many facts you know about the world from BC to AD. If you don't have the methods/strategies to impart that wisdom to a class of students, you are not fit to teach. I'd take a BS candidate with good rapport and a plethora of strategies to a PhD who can only share facts.

Go crawl back into your hole, PP. Your "advice" is worthless.

You may be right but give me the freedom to take my chances with a PhD in the subject material rather than a "certificate for teaching" person attempting to teach a subject clearly in over his or her head or realm of expertise.

Unfortunately, some teachers seem to forget that parents have every right to expect and demand qualified teaching services for their children. Many teachers forget parents are shareholders in the $2 billion/year enterprise or firm that is called MCPS. You had better believe, someday, as a teacher you may be held accountable to the shareholders...or you may be out of work. Don't forget this. This relationship happens in all other sectors of the American economy.

I love the threat. I am accountable - to my AP, my RT, to those who set curriculum mandates, to the state for its HSA testing - and, most importantly, to my students. However, when I read nasty, ignorant comments from an "outsider," I cringe. You help to lower the bar b/c most good teachers leave, as they tire of this condescending attitude. Why placate a group of complainers when they can find another profession that the public respects. Don't fool yourself, PP; YOU are a major part of the problem.

I can only say that I've lasted b/c I am good at my job and b/c I have the strength & confidence to stand up to parents like you. I wish more teachers were vocal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yikes! This is so unpleasant.
A couple of points:
1. The GT thread (discussing Starr's forum and MCPS policy) did not in my opinion attack teachers. The parents there were focused primarily on MCPS policy and school administration (from Starr down to inflexible principals). There was nothing on that thread about teachers.
I personally do not have a problem with the quality of teaching in MCPS although I have heard on good authority that teachers are not specifically trained (at university) to teach gifted children and that might be an area to address.
I will say however, that often when people post about GT concerns, they seem to incite a post from someone who says something like "oh you parents who think your kids are so special make me sick. You just want your kids to get A's and you whine and email the teacher constantly with requests/complaints". I have often wondered whether this person is a teacher, in which case I pray my child never ends up in her class. I will also say that I believe this person(s) if a teacher is not representative of a MCPS teacher.

2. For the parents/teachers who are criticizing parents who are advocating for "pathways for advanced students", some of you seem to imply that if 40% of students are labeled as "gifted" by MCPS, perhaps these children are just barely above average and don't need any academic support. Others on this thread have called us a "vocal minority" which presumably means our concerns can be dismissed or ignored easily. Well, which is it?
In my opinion, most of the parents who were posting on the GT thread had children who were performing (as evidenced by MAP-R scores or Math assessment scores perhaps) several grade levels above grade. I have no idea how many children like this exist in MCPS (maybe 10%?) but I am willing to bet they did not all qualify for the too limited magnet spots.
They may be a minority but they are not an insignificant minority and their needs should be taken seriously. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

If you are referring some PP. Your premise does not apply. I am not referring to "GT" or "gifted" or "magnet" kids. My reference is to regular garden variety MCPS schools. I believe shareholders --- parents and kids--(Property, State and Federal tax payers of their salary and benefits) should hold teachers accountable to providing a challenging education for all our children. When you take away potential pathways you are failing in your mission and many of our kids are stuck in a quagmire. MCPS consumes $2 billion/yr of our investment. I gather you disagree with this?

PS: Simply ask the kids in your classrooms. Teachers love to hand out the grades (stick vs carrot). In many other sectors this evaluation can be a 2 way street. I think we all would be surprised if we read the evaluations of the teaching going on from the students themselves.

Do you routinely have your students evaluate your own teaching performance? All MCPS teachers should do this to get feedback (anonymously, of course, since teachers are not immune from bias and future retribution).

PP, you are an idiot. Teachers don't choose the curriculum, so your anger at them is misplaced. As for 360 feedback. You don't think that children who don't like their teachers tell their parents, who in turn call the school? Your posting high lights the premise of the thread. I would not want to have to deal with you at my child's school.

[Anonymous]

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/03/20/condoleezza-rice-on-education-american-dream-on-verge-of-collapse?s_cid=related-links:TOP

[Anonymous]

Taking away advancement pathways for students and leaving our children in the more than capable hands of our public school teachers is the solution. A rise is on the horizon.

[Anonymous]

PP, you are an idiot. Teachers don't choose the curriculum, so your anger at them is misplaced. As for 360 feedback. You don't think that children who don't like their teachers tell their parents, who in turn call the school? Your posting high lights the premise of the thread. I would not want to have to deal with you at my child's school.

You are a darling. Parents and students don't choose the curriculum either. Do you like the curriculum you alledgedly teach? How about teachers who don't like the parents or the kids ... complete the feedback loop here (report card)?