Math education - Why is US not solving this problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you believe this then it will probably be affirmative action American born students who will inherit the earth. And the irony is that most of them will be unqualified to do the work but will rely on remedial on the job training conducted by much lower paying immigrants good at STEM subjects.

Where have you been? They already did. George W. Bush Gentleman's C minus from Andover, Yale and Harvard. There are a ton of these aging affirmative action babies in America.

This time around it will be the affirmative action babies from the other end of the socio-economic spectrum. The middle class always gets screwed.

[Anonymous]

A native-born American kid can go to business/law school, attend comparatively easier classes with hot babes, and make megabucks, or go the STEM route, enjoy the sausage party, and make a fraction of what the MBAs/JDs are making.

Women who go the STEM route are either:
1. discouraged by a sexist teacher/professor or two along the way,
2. are there for the easy pickings and eventually move to an easier major, or
3. end up running away due to too many geeks asking them out.

This may be changing (especially in law) but over the past 20-30 years, law/business had easier classes and way more lucrative. So why act surprised that capable native-born Americans went to those fields?

[Anonymous]

A native-born American kid can go to business/law school, attend comparatively easier classes with hot babes, and make megabucks, or go the STEM route, enjoy the sausage party, and make a fraction of what the MBAs/JDs are making.

Women who go the STEM route are either:
1. discouraged by a sexist teacher/professor or two along the way,
2. are there for the easy pickings and eventually move to an easier major, or
3. end up running away due to too many geeks asking them out.

This may be changing (especially in law) but over the past 20-30 years, law/business had easier classes and way more lucrative. So why act surprised that capable native-born Americans went to those fields?

Who is acting surprised?

Most posters so far acknowledge we Americans are undisciplined, lazy, and look for the easy way out to a trunk full of money. The ends ($$$) justifies the means. No surprise here. We are now getting a fight for those sought after spots in Big 3 private colleges and universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A native-born American kid can go to business/law school, attend comparatively easier classes with hot babes, and make megabucks, or go the STEM route, enjoy the sausage party, and make a fraction of what the MBAs/JDs are making.

Women who go the STEM route are either:
1. discouraged by a sexist teacher/professor or two along the way,
2. are there for the easy pickings and eventually move to an easier major, or
3. end up running away due to too many geeks asking them out.

This may be changing (especially in law) but over the past 20-30 years, law/business had easier classes and way more lucrative. So why act surprised that capable native-born Americans went to those fields?

Who is acting surprised?

Most posters so far acknowledge we Americans are undisciplined, lazy, and look for the easy way out to a trunk full of money. The ends ($$$) justifies the means. No surprise here. We are now getting a fight for those sought after spots in Big 3 private colleges and universities.

The various people who're telling us "RAWR WE ARE FALLING BEHIND IN STEM RAWR" sure seem surprised as heck.

Pay STEM fields on a level comparable to law/business. Otherwise the corporate leaders who're bitching about a lack of STEM people just want to bring in more H1B's to cut costs.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for including the link -- interesting article. I do wonder if it perhaps underestimated how sports participation/performance links to collegiate fundraising? One thing I can attest to -- the idea of trickle-down professionalization in HS sports is a real phenomenon (witness the proliferation of girls club soccer, for example). A significant number of students at good local privates spend more time in season practicing their sports than on homework, as far as I've observed.

Sounds like a processing dysfunction or we are reading different threads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most posters so far acknowledge we Americans are undisciplined, lazy, and look for the easy way out to a trunk full of money. The ends ($$$) justifies the means. No surprise here. We are now getting a fight for those sought after spots in Big 3 private colleges and universities.

You're assuming that only those who go into STEM are disciplined and hard-working. I'd bet those who went to law school or business school -- and are successful at it -- are extremely disciplined and hard-working as well.

[Anonymous]

You're assuming that only those who go into STEM are disciplined and hard-working. I'd bet those who went to law school or business school -- and are successful at it -- are extremely disciplined and hard-working as well.

Wrong again. Keep swinging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're assuming that only those who go into STEM are disciplined and hard-working. I'd bet those who went to law school or business school -- and are successful at it -- are extremely disciplined and hard-working as well.

Wrong again. Keep swinging.

Stellar logic, and equally impressive rhetorical skills. What was your major?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most posters so far acknowledge we Americans are undisciplined, lazy, and look for the easy way out to a trunk full of money. The ends ($$$) justifies the means. No surprise here. We are now getting a fight for those sought after spots in Big 3 private colleges and universities.

You're assuming that only those who go into STEM are disciplined and hard-working. I'd bet those who went to law school or business school -- and are successful at it -- are extremely disciplined and hard-working as well.

Agree. STEM majors who go onto law school often don't do very well. There is a misperception that they are smarter than liberal arts students. It is an eye opening experience to students with STEM undergrad degrees who end up doing very poorly in law school. Just because you don't have a STEM degree doesn't mean you aren't smart or hardworking. I think if the lib arts students who do well in law school really wanted to pursue STEM majors, they could do well.

[Anonymous]

Don't tell my colleagues in IVY that were double math and econ or physics and econ majors going on to the top law school in the country that were absolutely superb lawyers with outstanding careers. Where do you come up with your facts.? Are you a lawyer or a home maker? Have you litigated a case in your life?

[Anonymous]

Econ doesn't count. And a STEM degree from an Ivy is not really an outstanding accomplishment. The real competition for STEM majors is at non-Ivies.

[Anonymous]

I'll take a STEM major enterinig law school over a pre-law major any day of the year. More brains.

[Anonymous]

pre-law = gut courses (zero rigor) Give me STEM = more rigor, more brains and higher IQ (WPPSI score)

[Anonymous]

Having taught math in 3 different countries, I wouldn't dismiss a poor curriculum as the cause. Many western countries struggle with the same issues as the US in that kids tend to perceive math as uncool and don't choose it. But those other countries are scoring better than the US on international tests. A bad curriculum can make teachers lose their confidence and can have long lasting consequences on students and potential teachers. From what I remember, it wasn't always like this for math in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Having taught math in 3 different countries, I wouldn't dismiss a poor curriculum as the cause. Many western countries struggle with the same issues as the US in that kids tend to perceive math as uncool and don't choose it. But those other countries are scoring better than the US on international tests. A bad curriculum can make teachers lose their confidence and can have long lasting consequences on students and potential teachers. From what I remember, it wasn't always like this for math in the US.[/quote]

I agree with most of what you say except the bolded part