Teens 45% less empathetic than a generation ago study shows/what is going on??

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Why does EVERYTHING have to be SAHM vs. WM? Come on ladies...did the article say that aspect was studied? Because a lot of the research for decades has shown that by teen years, having working moms doesn't really impact kids negatively or positively if the child had high quality care.

And I'm not being defensive, I stayed home when my kids were young simply because it worked better for me and my family and we moved for DH's job shortly after my first was born, it seemed overwhelming to start a job and childcare search while getting used to our new city. But I digress....By implying it is working moms/daycare causing this, it is really misogynistic. It reminds me of the folks in the 1970s who blamed autism on cold, uncaring moms. How sad that even fellow moms think so poorly of each other. It sheds a lot of light to why our teens might be growing up to by less empathetic. [/quote]

How is it mysoginistic to say that the time one spends parenting a newborn has great value and impact on the formation of their basic personality? Also, this is meant to be a discussion, not an attack so try not to knee jerk react so quickly. [/quote]

It is misoginistic because it puts all the burden on the mom and makes "kids are screwed up" the mom's fault. There is never a mention in these discussions on how much the dad works, his attitudes, time and energy spent on the kids. It's always mom works so kid in daycare or without care of mom = screwed up kid.[/quote]


Well, while I think that dads are indispensable, they just do not have the same role as 'mother' esp in the first few years of life. Each parent is essential, but they are not interchangable. And I think that the burden IS on mothers in the early years. Am I generalizing? Sure. But that doesn't make it untrue. Are there exceptions? Sure. But that also doesn't make it untrue. So...while I would love to live in the world you envision, the fact is, we don't. Babies need mommies more than than need daddies..its a biological fact which leads to an emotional fact. This doesn't last forever, of course, just in the first 3 years or so.

[Anonymous]

Communicating via technology has impact. Its something I teach adults to understand impact, pick up the phone instead, walk to the person down the floor.

What's scarier is our teenagers who text / facebook- and the recent research on the volume of texts is frightening. The problem is that teenagers can say something in a text - and many times a week/month - day, without seeing the physical reaction of the person on the other end. Very different than sayng it to the person. Seeing/feeling an emotional reaction is part of the process of learning empathy

[Anonymous]

Anyone out there who has read Piaget or Eriksson's stages of child dev.; specificlly trust vs misstrust being the primary foundation for us all and being laid in infancy.??? Anyone interested in day care environment's impact on this?? Specifically:if an infant learns early that : he will not be picked up when he cries( due to a 1:4 infant ratio) , will not be changed when wet( due to same) will not be played with when bored( worker 1 is struggling just to feed and get the diapers changed on those 4 infants) any chance that after 10 hours a day of this, 5 days a week, they will be a little less likely to trust that their needs will be met, and a little less empathetic of others later in life. Any chance that a toddler who ,due to poor worker to child ratio, doesn't get adequate stimulation fails to meet their potential under mastery vs shame and doubt( the 2nd stage, I believe) and might end up a little more in the short attention span, ADD , low tolerance to frustration camp.Sorry, but I don't think the foundation for empathy starts in the teenager years, the mold is "set" at that point, IMHO.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Anyone out there who has read Piaget or Eriksson's stages of child dev.; specificlly trust vs misstrust being the primary foundation for us all and being laid in infancy.??? Anyone interested in day care environment's impact on this?? Specifically:if an infant learns early that : he will not be picked up when he cries( due to a 1:4 infant ratio) , will not be changed when wet( due to same) will not be played with when bored( worker 1 is struggling just to feed and get the diapers changed on those 4 infants) any chance that after 10 hours a day of this, 5 days a week, they will be a little less likely to trust that their needs will be met, and a little less empathetic of others later in life. Any chance that a toddler who ,due to poor worker to child ratio, doesn't get adequate stimulation fails to meet their potential under mastery vs shame and doubt( the 2nd stage, I believe) and might end up a little more in the short attention span, ADD , low tolerance to frustration camp.Sorry, but I don't think the foundation for empathy starts in the teenager years, the mold is "set" at that point, IMHO.[/quote]

You are making assumptions. Just because the ratio is 1:4 (actually it was 1:3 at my DCs' daycare) that the child's needs are not being met. At our daycare, each child had a primary caregiver, but they worked as a team and they also had "extra" help if they were busy. Babies were comforted if they cried. Diapers were changed as needed and there was lots of time for play. How do I know that? Because I dropped in unexpectedly A LOT, as did other parents. I also stopped by to breastfeed when I had time. I (and the other parents) had a great window into what was going on there. You cannot assume that because there are 4 children to 1 caregiver that the needs are not being met.

For what it's worth, I have one child that was in FT daycare from 3 months on and a second who was not. Guess who is more empathetic -- you guessed it, the one that was in daycare is WAY more empathetic. Do I think it was because of the daycare? No. I think it's mostly personality -- and the fact that I was probably more indulgent of her because I was home and overwhelemd with other stresses.

[Anonymous]

That was not my experience. But please do share the name of your day care that has a 1:3 ratio. I'm sure lot's of people would like to know. My DC was in day care for exactly 4 days. During that time I went over there to breast feed every three hours as it was right across the parking lot from the hospital where I worked. What I saw was very disturbing: infants in swings that were moving while they had a bottle propped in their mouth( every time the swing swung back the formula went all over the babies face). The day care worker, seeing this, of course did guess what: stop that swing and re-prop that bottle, of course!! ALL of the infants( near one year of age) were in either a swing ,an exersaucer or some other type of restraint, no doubt to make it easier to keep an eye on them. Every time I came over I would leave my child on all fours on the matt and put some toys near him, then I'd come back three hours later and those very same toys would be in exact same place. I also saw day care workers administerring antibiotics to one baby, then pick up another and give a medication to the second one with NO hand washing in between!! At the end of those 4 days my DC was diagnosed with a B/L ear infection. That was enough day care for me. This was at a day care that is a National Chain and has a 9 month wait list!!! The "caregivers" had an average age of 20 and referred to my DC as "spoiled" because he cried . I don't think this was the worse day care in America, probably average. All of these issues are a big concern, no?

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]That was not my experience. But please do share the name of your day care that has a 1:3 ratio. I'm sure lot's of people would like to know. My DC was in day care for exactly 4 days. During that time I went over there to breast feed every three hours as it was right across the parking lot from the hospital where I worked. What I saw was very disturbing: infants in swings that were moving while they had a bottle propped in their mouth( every time the swing swung back the formula went all over the babies face). The day care worker, seeing this, of course did guess what: stop that swing and re-prop that bottle, of course!! ALL of the infants( near one year of age) were in either a swing ,an exersaucer or some other type of restraint, no doubt to make it easier to keep an eye on them. Every time I came over I would leave my child on all fours on the matt and put some toys near him, then I'd come back three hours later and those very same toys would be in exact same place. I also saw day care workers administerring antibiotics to one baby, then pick up another and give a medication to the second one with NO hand washing in between!! At the end of those 4 days my DC was diagnosed with a B/L ear infection. That was enough day care for me. This was at a day care that is a National Chain and has a 9 month wait list!!! The "caregivers" had an average age of 20 and referred to my DC as "spoiled" because he cried . I don't think this was the worse day care in America, probably average. All of these issues are a big concern, no?[/quote]

With all due respect, you needed a new daycare. Mine is 1:4 and I never felt my DD was not being fed, diapered, stimulated. They all don't eat/cry at the same time, usually, and when they do, the have "floaters" that come in to assist. The room itself was small (8 babies) and some of the kids (including mine) were part-time and so not there every day.

While I think that infancy/toddler/preschool years DEFINITELY are very, very important in forming who a child will be and how much empathy s/he has, it is not determinative. But to link empathy to daycare is ridiculous in the sweeping manner in which you've applied it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, it isn't a sign of something amiss if we blame daycare and not ourselves, as parents and society? It is so much easier to do so, I know. The thing is, we have become the most narcissitic society since ancient Rome.

I agree - completely...

[Anonymous]

Probably has something to do with hearing their parents call eachother Boneheads at home.

[Anonymous]

So will all the day care fans and entusiasts who feel that day care helped their child reach their full potential more far more so than 1:1 at home, ,PLEASE do share the NAMES of these wonderful places. I don't see any names yet.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]So will all the day care fans and entusiasts who feel that day care helped their child reach their full potential more far more so than 1:1 at home, ,PLEASE do share the NAMES of these wonderful places. I don't see any names yet.[/quote]

I don't think my child was better off in daycare, I just don't think she was worse off. Our ratio was closer to 1:2 since in the infant rooms, there were 6 infants, 2 full time teachers, and an assistant around for most of the day. It was Bright Horizons - in our workplace - so we really knew what was up since DH would pop in as would the other parents.

One of the posters posting acted like daycare was the primary experience of the child. I know I know, kids spend a fair bit of time in daycare, but they also spent a lot of time at home with parents. Mornings, nights, weekends, etc. Let's not pretend this isn't the case - they still have parents who love them and spend time with them.

And there are lots of high quality daycares in this area. If you want to debate daycare then this should be moved to another forum, it's probably not getting a lot of responses because it was moved to the older kids.

As my child moved past the infant stage to a toddler, I do think she was better off in daycare. She had a great time and made incredible friends and we still keep in touch with her providers/teachers. And we are lucky - she never had long days there.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Anyone out there who has read Piaget or Eriksson's stages of child dev.; specificlly trust vs misstrust being the primary foundation for us all and being laid in infancy.??? Anyone interested in day care environment's impact on this?? Specifically:if an infant learns early that : he will not be picked up when he cries( due to a 1:4 infant ratio) , will not be changed when wet( due to same) will not be played with when bored( worker 1 is struggling just to feed and get the diapers changed on those 4 infants) any chance that after 10 hours a day of this, 5 days a week, they will be a little less likely to trust that their needs will be met, and a little less empathetic of others later in life. Any chance that a toddler who ,due to poor worker to child ratio, doesn't get adequate stimulation fails to meet their potential under mastery vs shame and doubt( the 2nd stage, I believe) and might end up a little more in the short attention span, ADD , low tolerance to frustration camp.Sorry, but I don't think the foundation for empathy starts in the teenager years, the mold is "set" at that point, IMHO.[/quote]

What utter nonsense. For most of history women had about 10 kids, many of whom would die along the way. So don't tell me that babies were constantly having all their needs met as soon as they felt them before daycare. 1 to 4 is not a bad ratio and is sufficient to avoid all the situations you suggest. I don't think waiting a couple of minutes to have their diaper changed is going to damage any child.

[Anonymous]

Antibiotics, vaccines and a failed school system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, look around you. Read the threads on this board. Look how people treat each other. Watch the rudeness on the roads, in the malls, etc. Those adults are raising those children who were talked about in the NPR piece.

Then turn on the news and you seen the violence and cruelty humans are capable of, as a general matter.

The conclusion in that piece is not surprising.

It is very sad.

I couldn't agree more with all that you've written here. Just take a look at some of the individual posts re how much money is needed for a family to afford private school in this area, and you can get an idea of how children can easily develop a sense of entitlement. It's also interesting to see how few questions and concerns throughout the entire DCUM forum involve spirituality, volunteer opportunities for helping others, how to have a simpler lifestyle involving more family time, etc. They're mostly consumer-related issues and $$.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]So will all the day care fans and entusiasts who feel that day care helped their child reach their full potential more far more so than 1:1 at home, ,PLEASE do share the NAMES of these wonderful places. I don't see any names yet.[/quote]

My kids were in the DOJ daycare (Just Us Kids) several years ago. The infant room (and the whole place) was fabulous! We're not there anymore so I cannot attest to how it is today, but it was excellent when we were there. No bottle propping. I'm not entirely certain, but I don't recall any swings. Most definitely the children were stimulated and well-loved. There were 12 children in the infant room and 4 primary caregivers. There were also assistants that came in as needed. You want a specific example -- there is one.